9mm instead of 5.56 for HD

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For now, yes.
 
doesnt 3db double the sound intensity? I think that 5 db may be rather significant no matter how you look at it.

I am not a proponent of using rifles as HD weapons for a whole host of reason but I would not call a concern over sound pressure to be off-base. I would suspect that sound pressure inside 4 walls can be problematic at high levels.
 
Yup, based on many comments, people like to go for that Hollywood style of home defense against zombies.

Tactical shotgun with:

#00 buckshot throws eight or nine balls. (Some Magnum loads contain 12-15 balls—with harrowing recoil.)
#1 buckshot holds 16
#4 buckshot 24 to 27

Hitting the zombie is more critical than your hearing.
 
If I had chickens and coyotes were a problem I would probably use an AR for that. I would still keep my G17 for home defense and it is easy to secure next to me when sleeping. Also, as mentioned above, it might be handy to have a spare hand available, especially if kids in the home. Of course I wouldn't argue that the MP5 couldn't fill both those roles for you.
 
FireForged said:
I have had the occasion to train ( hand to hand) against a foe while I am armed with a rifle. There are many inherent issues with trying to retain control over a rifle in such a circumstance. If it comes to moving around, being proceeded by a length of barrel is not a good quality. In most struggles where the foe grabbed my barrel, I was forced to abandon the rifle and attempt to transition to a secondary weapon. I find that there are several techniques of retaining a pistol that do seem to work well but I find the opposite is true in regards to retaining a rifle in a struggle. In most cases I came to the realization rather quickly that I was not going to get back working control of the rifle. Using a sling even made the problem worse as it was simply a lasso to be used against me. As I have said many many times.. shooting a gun well and fighting well with a gun are very different things.

Many of the issues are mitigated when you have aid of a team or other defenders. As a lone defender of my home, I want a very wieldy weapon. The rifle aint it.
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While I can understand training situations with someone attempting to grab your rifle, I can't understand a situation where you are ending up in a wrestling match over your rifle. If you failed to shoot someone trying to grab your firearm, you screwed up and probably need to find another line of work.
 
I carry M&P 9mm all day and when downstairs watching TV it is my go to HD gun. At night when I wander upstairs for the night HD changes to a M&P 45 loaded with 185gr +p HP. It works for me.
 
While I can understand training situations with someone attempting to grab your rifle, I can't understand a situation where you are ending up in a wrestling match over your rifle. If you failed to shoot someone trying to grab your firearm, you screwed up and probably need to find another line of work.
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If you do not accept how easy it is for things to get all upside down in lone self defense action, I cant probably cant explain it.

People do not train in weapons retention techniques because CQB is a ballet, its not. A guy with a rifle is not magically protected from a physical struggle by virtue of the fact that he is armed. A guy with a rifle and bayonet never got knocked down, disarmed or overpowered, right? People mess up, people are sometimes out matched, out maneuvered, out numbered, ambushed and a million other things. We are human, it happens. A person can either take steps to mitigate the potential for such a dilemma or not. I accept that fighting is risky business and I simply try to eliminate a much unnecessary difficulties which might also allow me to exploit certain conditions in my own favor.
 
FireForged said:
If you do not accept how easy it is for things to get all upside down in lone self defense action, I cant probably cant explain it.

People do not train in weapons retention techniques because CQB is a ballet, its not. A guy with a rifle is not magically protected from a physical struggle by virtue of the fact that he is armed. A guy with a rifle and bayonet never got knocked down, disarmed or overpowered, right? People mess up, people are sometimes out matched, out maneuvered, out numbered, ambushed and a million other things. We are human, it happens. A person can either take steps to mitigate the potential for such a dilemma or not. I accept that fighting is risky business and I simply try to eliminate a much unnecessary difficulties which might also allow me to exploit certain conditions in my own favor.
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Explain a situation where this would likely happen. Some guy trying to clear a building with multiple rooms?
 
jmr40 said:
Typical 12 ga buckshot loads are comparable to 300 WM rifle recoil.
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I've never fired a 300, but I have shot many a high brass 00 buck out of my 590 and it's a cupcake compared to my Finn M91 using 174 grain yellow tip FMJ. Just sayin.

Bill
 
Weapon retention is certainly a valid topic for T&T and one where the choice of long gun vs. handgun makes a difference.

I've deleted some posts, not because they were off topic but because the exchange wasn't productive.

The goal of T&T is to exchange ideas, to provide information and to share the benefit of training and experience. Not to exchange one-liners and sarcasm.
 
Keeping rats and squirrels from my feeders and the occasional woodchuck or rabbit from my veggies, I use various toys, from slingshots, recurve bows and airguns, up to rifles & handguns... all out my kitchen window. Most of the time, the muzzle is slowly pushed outside the window, so the sound doesn't bother me much at all.

With one particularly skittish varmint, I stood further back inside covered in the shadows, the muzzle of my .22 rifle well inside the window frame, and shot offhand. :rolleyes: The noise was deafening and my ears rang for days.

I cannot imagine how loud and damaging to the ears a 9mm or .357 would be inside a dwelling, much less a .223! :eek:
 
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With one particularly skittish varmint, I stood further back inside covered in the shadows, the muzzle of my .22 rifle well inside the window frame, and shot offhand. The noise was deafening and my ears rang for days.
I cannot imagine how loud and damaging to the ears a 9mm or .357 would be inside a dwelling, much less a .223!
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Correct, ... which is the purpose of running a weapon suppressed if there's any likelihood you'll be touching it off inside a home, apartment, or other structure.
 
yep.. I have a close friend that ND'd a 357 in his hallway. He said he had to sit down on the floor for about 20 minutes. He said that he was experiencing something like vertigo and could not walk or stand. He said that if here were having to fight an intruder, he would have been up crap creek.

Certainly there are many things that come into play when dealing with sound pressure but concerns over db and discharging firearms indoors are no joke.
 
shurshot said:
With one particularly skittish varmint, I stood further back inside covered in the shadows, the muzzle of my .22 rifle well inside the window frame, and shot offhand. :rolleyes: The noise was deafening and my ears rang for days.

I cannot imagine how loud and damaging to the ears a 9mm or .357 would be inside a dwelling, much less a .223! :eek:
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From my own experience (which I’ll caveat by saying it was a single shot in the different events), my ears didn’t ring for days from a 9mm+P fired from a 3.5”-4” barrel. My ears didn’t really ring at all. What I had was short term hearing loss, in the matter of say a minute or two with the loss tapering as time went by. It was as if everything was muffled. Within a few minutes my hearing seemed fine, though my ears hurt for the afternoon (as I mentioned earlier I do have some hyperacusis). Again, in a defensive situation if you have to fire multiple shots this may be cumulative.

In the event you can’t hear someone such as first responders showing up or entering the dwelling this hearing loss could be very problematic. There was a sad story a few years back of a grandfather that fought off a home intruder who was attempting to rape and drown his grandson. The grandfather retrieved a firearm and shot the assailant. Afterwards the grandfather didn’t hear the responding officer ordering him to drop the firearm. The officer shot and killed the grandfather (who was normally hard of hearing and had sustained a blow to the head in the event in addition to the noise from the shooting). Beyond the long term damage to your hearing there can also be immediate repercussions of hearing loss.

https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/no-charges-officer/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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Explain a situation where this would likely happen. Some guy trying to clear a building with multiple rooms?
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In numerous circumstances where a person may have a child, children or other vulnerable family members in the home that is currently invaded by a bad-guy or ( bad-guys)

In numerous circumstances where another family member may have engaged an intruder and you are coming to their aid vs an unknow number of bad-guys.

In numerous circumstance where a defender is lured from a position of advantage to a position of disadvantage via subterfuge.

In numerous circumstances where a person who is currently in a defendable position of advantage but is forced to move or flee due to encroaching danger such as fire, smoke, being overrun, fired upon, being flanked or having to retreat due to injury.

So pretty much anything that might require a person to move within a hostile environment when they otherwise would have wanted to stay put. Its not a foreign concept. Sometimes its not as easy as simply saying "im gonna stay right here at the corner of this bookcase".
 
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In a defensive encounter I'm not so sure you will be concern about hearing loss. :)



Hawg said:
A short barreled 12 gauge is a better choice than either of them.
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Cook up the right load and you can even limit over penetration. It is the ultimate home defense tool. The younger crowd out of the military over the last 25 years or so came out with the mind-set of an AR and of course those who came up on video games.

The other big thing is they are afraid of recoil.


I handroll my own buckshot loads that hit like a sledge hammer and yet as easy to shoot as my pocket 9mm.
 
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