9mm instead of 5.56 for HD

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Don Fischer said:
Your 5.56 with that heavy bullet might work fine for coyote's after your chickens. I've had chicken's here for about 30 yrs and none lost to coyotes! In the house that 5.56 with that heavy bullet will likely shoot through every wall in the house! The 9mm with a short barrel probably won't. My defense weapon is a S&W shield 9c with maybe a 1" barrel. It doesn't shoot through many walls but I suspect it will stop a bad guy! And I never fire it farther than 15' max, I simply don't shoot handguns well and I suspect you shoot a human much farther than that your gonna have some explaining to do!
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Light bullets will go through a lot of walls as will pistol rounds. Check out the box o truth website
https://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-1-the-original-box-o-truth/

Jerry did a great vid on it too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5heCtqpaLws
 
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I suspect you shoot a human much farther than that your gonna have some explaining to do!
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All of my shooting to date has been on varmints. Raccoons, coyotes and such. So far the 5.56 has preformed well. But that said, a .22 pistol has been used successfully in the past. But this shooting has all been done out doors... If the time comes where I have to shoot in my living room or from my bed room to the hallway, I don't want to do it with 25 grains of powder at 55,000 psi. I was shocked by the blast of a .44 mag indoors WITH electronic muffs on. I simply don't want to go there with the 5.56.

As I said, a 9mm JHP at 1300 fps (5 grains of powder at 35,000 psi) will do what I need it to and won't be AS BAD as the 5.56.
 
Remember what Clint Smith said? "The purpose of the handgun is to fight your way to the rifle." I'd rather have a centerfire rifle for home defense than a handgun. Handgun is backup.
 
Not a fan of a rifle if movement is necessary to use 2 hands.

There are times when a handgun is prudent and when a rifle is. Keep both at the ready and be trained to use them at the proper time. That would resolve the issue and debate.
 
So after a bit of light googling these are the rough numbers the internet offered up

5.56 is approximately 165db
9mm is approximately 160db, even with subsonic loads as I understand it.

Changing your entire platform to save 5db is kind of a moot point IMHO.

I think there is something to the tone and crack of different calibers. however the actual db's seems to be relatively similar.
 
A good point made by Shadow. But I'll add that a handgun, used with one hand, leaves the other hand free for some useful chores: light switches, door knobs, window drapes, PHONE DIALING, I'm sure you get the picture...and I'll also add that potential hearing loss in a defensive shooting is near the bottom of my worry list. Fumbling around in a dark bedroom looking for your ear protectors makes no sense whatsoever. YMMv...Rod
 
True. But at those levels, indoors, it's guaranteed instant significant hearing damage with either being up that high in the dB range.

Only reasonable way to preserve your hearing in this case is to put plugs in or muffs on asap. Suppressors are cool but cost prohibitive and can raise additional legal issues if used is a defensive situation
 
A shotgun with slugs in case you need to stop an engine block or attackers in armor, but well down the list from primary.

A rifle caliber with a suppressor is a good option to have if needed.

A pistol is smaller, more mobile.

All of the above have advantages and disadvantages that are exacerbated and or mitigated by the user, the attacker(s), the environment. To me, a PCC in 9mm with a suppressor and a light mitigates many issues and is, for me, what I consider to be a primary HD weapon. Both the wife and I have one and the boys can both shoot them as well. I have the other three options at the ready as well. The only downside there is possibly overchoicing (is that a word?) but I practice and train regularly to mitigate that as well.
 
Shadow9mm said:
True. But at those levels, indoors, it's guaranteed instant significant hearing damage with either being up that high in the dB range.

Only reasonable way to preserve your hearing in this case is to put plugs in or muffs on asap. Suppressors are cool but cost prohibitive and can raise additional legal issues if used is a defensive situation
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Yeah I agree. I have electronic muffs next to the firearms in my home. In the event I have the time to put them on I do. They allow me to hear better than I can without. I have been present when firearms were discharged inside standard sized rooms without hearing protection and while I didn’t find it dazed me it did mess with my short term hearing in addition to cumulative damage. I’d like to be able to hear if/when police are arriving and the electronic hearing protection is part of that.
 
Oh boy, lots of strange speculation in this thread...
Anything over 140dB will cause hearing damage, according to OSHA. That is pretty much every modern firearm without a suppressor. Those arguing that a 12ga SBS is quieter than a .223 AR-15...what have you been smoking?

9x19 out of an 8in barrel is respectable, but the terminal ballistics are definitely not as good as a .223. The wound channels and ft-lbs of delivered energy are usually much greater with the rifle round. Using 00buck or slugs at close range, the 12ga reigns supreme for wound channel and energy, in this comparison (at the cost of recoil, limited capacity, and being loud).

Using a suppressor and/or ear pro is a better answer than caliber changes, imo. That said, you can do both.
 
Oh boy, lots of strange speculation in this thread...
Anything over 140dB will cause hearing damage, according to OSHA. That is pretty much every modern firearm without a suppressor. Those arguing that a 12ga SBS is quieter than a .223 AR-15...what have you been smoking?

9x19 out of an 8in barrel is respectable, but the terminal ballistics are definitely not as good as a .223. The wound channels and ft-lbs of delivered energy are usually much greater with the rifle round. Using 00buck or slugs at close range, the 12ga reigns supreme for wound channel and energy, in this comparison (at the cost of recoil, limited capacity, and being loud).

Using a suppressor and/or ear pro is a better answer than caliber changes, imo. That said, you can do both.
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I guess i have been smoking my ears.

I have fired .223, 9mm ( handgun and Carbine) and one time a light sport load 12Ga to kill a Water Moccasin...of the three .223 w/o earmuffs was the worst. ( I don't generally do that, but on rare occasions....and, I am not counting the aforementioned time when us 3 brothers shot full 00 buck with just cotton wool in our ears, that would be cheating...:D )

Otherwise, I agree with you, EAR MUFFS please!


The OP Willie already got the SBR / NFA permit to put a stock on the MP-5 clone, taking it to the next level and getting paperwork for a Suppressor be handy indeed. Might need to re-zero the carbine w/ a suppressor...

here is a link on gelatin tests from Handguns at 100 Yards:

https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/how-effective-is-pistol-ammo-at-100-yards/
 
I am curious about whether 45 ACP entered your consideration for HD.

45 ACP is a tad quieter (about 3dB) than 9mm, and even more so when out of a carbine. I once forgot to don my hearing protection when shooting my 45 ACP carbine outside, and to my surprise the blast wasn't that bad (although I wouldn't want to repeat it).

Also 45 ACP being fatter and slower has a tad less risk of overpenetration.
 
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I had not personally considered .45. I only own one .45, a Colt 1911. I have thousands of rounds of 9mm and already have a 9mm SBR.

.45 does have things going for it but switching to it would require obtaining ammo (in this market?) and possibly a new gun.
 
I wouldn't want to shoot a 12 guage in a 12x12 room, even with plugs in. 9mm is my in home defense choice, 5.56 for outside. And just a tip, if you have to fire a weapon from inside your vehicle for some reason, roll the windows down first if possible, your ears will thank you.
 
I have fired .223, 9mm ( handgun and Carbine) and one time a light sport load 12Ga to kill a Water Moccasin...of the three .223 w/o earmuffs was the worst. ( I don't generally do that, but on rare occasions.
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Yeah, there is a difference between unpleasant and damaging. The most unpleasant thing with firearms I've seen was standing next to a guy firing an 8in barrel SBR in .223 with a muzzle brake inside a shoot house hallway. The concussion was nauseating. That said a guy firing a 12ga under an overhang before I got my ear muffs on probably did more damage.
 
In many defensive scenarios, there either isn't time or you don't have hearing protection handy. Pretty much anything is going to damage your hearing, especially indoors. It's a risk most of us choose to live with, given the hopeful rarity of needing to defend life or limb.

For home defense, a suppressor is a good idea if the absurd legal challenges are worth it to you. I'd probably agree with the folks who recommend .45acp for this.

Otherwise, I choose a PCC for home defense. Honestly, 9mm from 8-16" of barrel is probably fine for most needs. I'd be happier with .40 S&W but despite some actual gains in destructive power, that happiness is probably more emotional than practical at the end of the day. I haven't taken deer with either but I know both work well on coyotes.
 
5.56 is approximately 165db
9mm is approximately 160db, even with subsonic loads as I understand it.

Changing your entire platform to save 5db is kind of a moot point IMHO.
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This is wayyyy over simplifying it. Having shot both a 16" barred 223 and a 16" barrel 9mm... the difference is astounding. A 9mm through a 16" barrel is MUCH quieter.

It's even noticeably quieter than a 9mm out of a pistol.

This is my (non scientific, based on experience) 1-10 scale:

223 from 16" rifle barrel - 10/10 LOUDDDDD
9mm from 4" pistol barrel - 6/10
9mm from 16" rifle barrel - 3/10

The real world difference is dramatic. Don't let the "numbers" lie to you.
 
jackstrawIII said:
This is wayyyy over simplifying it. Having shot both a 16" barred 223 and a 16" barrel 9mm... the difference is astounding. A 9mm through a 16" barrel is MUCH quieter.

It's even noticeably quieter than a 9mm out of a pistol.

This is my (non scientific, based on experience) 1-10 scale:

223 from 16" rifle barrel - 10/10 LOUDDDDD
9mm from 4" pistol barrel - 6/10
9mm from 16" rifle barrel - 3/10

The real world difference is dramatic. Don't let the "numbers" lie to you.
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The numbers aren’t really lying. 5 dB is a significant difference as I mentioned in post 27. Both may damage your hearing, but less hearing damage and less blast still has benefits.

As a note, I have been exposed to a handgun firing indoors without hearing protection on three separate occasions. The first case was a smaller room (say 10’x15’), the second case was larger, and the third larger still. The first two cases were with +P ammunition and the last case was in a room with concrete walls (a fair amount of reverb). All cases were with 9mm. My overall hearing is still very good. I suffer from hyperacusis with certain sounds, but on a daily basis I’m generally fine (whether that changes as I get older remains to be seen). I have been present when rifles were fired indoors. Even with hearing protection it was not pleasant and I don’t think my current hearing would be what I have mentioned had those shots been with rifles.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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I have had the occasion to train ( hand to hand) against a foe while I am armed with a rifle. There are many inherent issues with trying to retain control over a rifle in such a circumstance. If it comes to moving around, being proceeded by a length of barrel is not a good quality. In most struggles where the foe grabbed my barrel, I was forced to abandon the rifle and attempt to transition to a secondary weapon. I find that there are several techniques of retaining a pistol that do seem to work well but I find the opposite is true in regards to retaining a rifle in a struggle. In most cases I came to the realization rather quickly that I was not going to get back working control of the rifle. Using a sling even made the problem worse as it was simply a lasso to be used against me. As I have said many many times.. shooting a gun well and fighting well with a gun are very different things.

Many of the issues are mitigated when you have aid of a team or other defenders. As a lone defender of my home, I want a very wieldy weapon. The rifle aint it.
 
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