9MM Hollowpoints: Not impressive
- Thread starter PointOneSeven
- Start date
Probably more like this ..though this pic is from an older article(when PowRball just came out) ..more recent articles and Brass Fetchers (links) indicate it may have been recalibrated to get around 12" pen now ..instead of 10"
I've used it..it does hit hard, yet recoil is pretty light much like standard ammo ..from a G19 anyway
..is a bit pricey now though .http://www.brassfetcher.com/100 grain +P Cor-Bon Pow'R Ball.html
http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/CorbonPowRball.htm
These are good pics, but they are even better when coupled with the text that goes along with them.
As you increase bullet size and mass from 9 mm/357 Sig, to .40 S&W, to .45 ACP, more tissue is crushed, resulting in a larger permanent cavity. In addition, the larger bullets often offer better performance through intermediate barriers. For some, the incremental advantages of the larger calibers are offset by weapon platform characteristics. As is quite obvious from the photo above, NONE of the common service pistol calibers generate temporary cavities of sufficient magnitude to cause significant tissue damage. Anyone interested in this topic should read and periodically re-read, “Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness” by Urey Patrick of the FBI FTU, as this remains the single best discussion of the wound ballistic requirements of handguns used for self-defense -- it is available at: http://www.firearmstactical.com/hwfe.htm .
Keeping in mind that handguns generally offer poor incapacitation potential, bullets with effective terminal performance are available in all of the most commonly used duty pistol calibers—pick the one that you shoot most accurately, that is most reliable in the type of pistol you choose, and best suits you likely engagement scenarios.
As you increase bullet size and mass from 9 mm/357 Sig, to .40 S&W, to .45 ACP, more tissue is crushed, resulting in a larger permanent cavity. In addition, the larger bullets often offer better performance through intermediate barriers. For some, the incremental advantages of the larger calibers are offset by weapon platform characteristics. As is quite obvious from the photo above, NONE of the common service pistol calibers generate temporary cavities of sufficient magnitude to cause significant tissue damage. Anyone interested in this topic should read and periodically re-read, “Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness” by Urey Patrick of the FBI FTU, as this remains the single best discussion of the wound ballistic requirements of handguns used for self-defense -- it is available at: http://www.firearmstactical.com/hwfe.htm .
Keeping in mind that handguns generally offer poor incapacitation potential, bullets with effective terminal performance are available in all of the most commonly used duty pistol calibers—pick the one that you shoot most accurately, that is most reliable in the type of pistol you choose, and best suits you likely engagement scenarios.
scoobydoo6906
New member
shot placement is more important than caliber? who ever heard of that? my rule of thumb for selecting a handgun caliber is shoot the biggest caliber you can control and shoot accurately with your week hand with .38spl/.380acp being the minimum.
Quote:
Not impressive looking at least
..They look fine to me
I'm surprised no one has mentioned that the only round to have retained 100% of it's weight are the .45 ACP rounds. The rest shed some lead.
It also showed the highest mean expansion.
Not surprising since they started out bigger anyway, but still.
Delaware_Dan
New member
This thread: Not impressive. Shot placement is key, if you get shot in the forehead with a 9mm of any sort you are going down. Shooting someone in the head with a .45 instead of a 9mm doesn't make them any more dead.
The use of military service pistols with FMJ and of course back in the day before reliably functioning and expanding HP for the semi auto, is beyond a doubt where the .45 auto got its reputation of being superior from.
.22lr, .25 ACP. .32 ACP, .380 ACP, 9 MM Parabellum, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, .44 Magnum in background for comparison.
Look at these rounds from .22 LR to .45 Auto with FMJ projectiles. I don't know about ant of you, but if I had to use FMJ I'd take the .45 ACP or that .40 with the flat tip over the smaller rounds any day. Probably the best choice would be the .45, 230 grain Hornaday FMJ flat point that Cooper recommended.
However now in 2008, bullet technology has gone a long, long way in closing the performance gap. All those Winchester ranger rounds pictured expand do that when shot through all kinds barriers and still performed well.
I would feel just almost as well armed with a Glock 17, Sig 226, BHP, etc loaded with modern HP ammo as I would a 1911 loaded with modern HP ammo. If however I had for whatever reason to use FMJ I would prefer the .45.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"Ah, you changed the standard. What is the expansion difference?"
Who said anything about a standard?
The ONLY "standard" should be that it's readily available at either a gunshop, a gun show, or via the internet.
How about this as a "standard"?
The ONLY valid comparison is equal weight bullets -- 124-gr. 9mm against 124-gr. .45 ACP.
WHAT? THERE'S NO 124-GR. .45 ACP?!!?
Wow...
It's interesting that it appears that the ".45 is the blessing of God via his Saint, John Browning, the 9mm is Hitler's testicle, good only for shooting Jews and Poles in the head and marginal for that" crowd is working REALLY hard to do everything it can to pick and choose and scrub results very carefully so as to "prove" that the 9mm is an inferior, unreliable, product.
Says a lot...
"I'm surprised no one has mentioned that the only round to have retained 100% of it's weight are the .45 ACP rounds. The rest shed some lead."
And the effective result of that observation is.... What?
The only thing it really means, at least retained weight wise, is that the .45 is going a lot slower than the other rounds. Expanding bullets tend to start shedding weight in the 1000 to 1,200 fps. range.
Who said anything about a standard?
The ONLY "standard" should be that it's readily available at either a gunshop, a gun show, or via the internet.
How about this as a "standard"?
The ONLY valid comparison is equal weight bullets -- 124-gr. 9mm against 124-gr. .45 ACP.
WHAT? THERE'S NO 124-GR. .45 ACP?!!?
Wow...
It's interesting that it appears that the ".45 is the blessing of God via his Saint, John Browning, the 9mm is Hitler's testicle, good only for shooting Jews and Poles in the head and marginal for that" crowd is working REALLY hard to do everything it can to pick and choose and scrub results very carefully so as to "prove" that the 9mm is an inferior, unreliable, product.
Says a lot...
"I'm surprised no one has mentioned that the only round to have retained 100% of it's weight are the .45 ACP rounds. The rest shed some lead."
And the effective result of that observation is.... What?
The only thing it really means, at least retained weight wise, is that the .45 is going a lot slower than the other rounds. Expanding bullets tend to start shedding weight in the 1000 to 1,200 fps. range.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"I heard and read stories from Iraq veterans that they had to empty a full magazine from their Beretta to stop an insurgent. I bet the 45ACP would have done a better job."
And I have heard and read stores that .45s have caused nuclear mushroom clouds upon hitting insurgents, and that all of the insurgents around Mr. Nuked, upon seeing that, instantly convert to Christianity.
Stories.
They're fun.
And I have heard and read stores that .45s have caused nuclear mushroom clouds upon hitting insurgents, and that all of the insurgents around Mr. Nuked, upon seeing that, instantly convert to Christianity.
Stories.
They're fun.
Wayward_Son
New member
9mm hollow points start to look much more impressive when they're moving over 1400 fps.
Of course at that point they're called .357 magnums and you're shooting them out of double-action revolvers.
Of course at that point they're called .357 magnums and you're shooting them out of double-action revolvers.
Sentences in BOLD added by me.
Hey kids, just pointing out a couple of miniscule differences of post firing size and mass. It means nothing in the larger scheme of things. Just an interesting footnote.
All the pictured rounds worked as advertised.
All the pistol calibers shown worked pretty much the same now, did they not?
I suspect it would be pretty much the same results if fired into an organic target.
Guess I should have added that when I wrote the post.
Not that it wasn't perfectly obvious already.
Splitting hairs?
That's pretty much all there is left to do with this subject, huh?
Seriously...