6.5mm against elk.

1000 ft-lbs at 100 yards as listed by manufacturer is only a Colorado requirement as far as I know. There isn't a definitive requirement how much energy is needed to kill any big game animal. All you need is enough to ensure proper bullet function, which can be far less than 1000 ft-lbs in some cases.

As far as green_MTman's suggestions on cartridges and ranges, well all I can say is it is far from accurate. The suggestions he gave sound like one who's only experience hunting elk is second hand through magazine articles and hunting shows. Elk aren't as hard to kill as people think, they die pretty fast with a well placed bullet. However, some bullets aren't adequate for all angles and you'll need to be selective on your shot choice especially with a cartridge that is already handicapped for this type of hunting.
 
You can kill an elk with a sharp stick with a small blade on it.
I have.
Archery hunters do it all the time.

The thing you need is good penetration and some expansion. Also when using a less powerful weapon you need to be a better and more disciplined hunter.

When I hunt elk with a bow I limit my shots to 25 yards. If I were to hunt elk with a 6.5 Grendel or my 6.8 SPC (which I have also done, but I didn’t get a shot with it) I would limit my shots to about 100 yards. The bullets will kill elk farther away, but I worry about not bringing them home.

Without through and through penetration you may loose a blood trail or maybe not even get a blood trail. So dropping your elk within just a very few yards of where it’s hit is going to be vital.

I see you are in Idaho. I hunted and guided hunters in the Selway years ago, so a 100 yard limit is about 2X more than I’d probably need in that kind of cover. In fact I NEVER killed or saw an elk killed in there that was over 60 yards away. Cover was too thick.

But the 6.5 Grendel is an intermediate cartridge. A very good one I’ll grant you, but still not the kind of thing that was invented with 500-900 pound game in mind. I am 100% certain it’s going to be better than a good broad head on an arrow, but it’s never going to be a 270 Winchester
or 30-06. If you hunt elk with it keep in mind you have to accept it’s a more limited cartridge than a 270, or even a 243 or 25-06 for that matter.

If I were to try it I would NOT use an E-tip. I’d get a Barnes or a Nosler Partition
 
tahunua001, You going to be low end of bullet expansion and maybe around 1300 ft-lbs of energy @ 100yd until you have a load do the ballistic you may or may not get that.

Archer hunter have choice of expandable blades that can do more damage but you don't have that choice.
 
of coarse my ranges on elk are generalized approximations designed to give someone who is new to reloading a ballpark idea of guns and affective ranges.yes 2000psi is meant to include the biggest bulls not the average elk.but one never knows when one might see that big big bull.
i would call relativley accurate info aimed at the new reloader to give a decent reference point for starter.

it would like if i had my 6.5 mauser on a deer hunt and i saw a deer at 355 yards and i had not seen any deer so far in the hunt and it was getting late.i think i could likely pull of the shot.if i was going somewhere where i knew i would not see anything less than 200 minimum and a real long shot likely i would buy the 30-378 wby i have always dreamed of.
in think those elk ranges are helpfull but of coarse not meant to be taken literaly by the experieced shooter and hand loader
 
most short action rifles about 200

250 yards: .270win,25-06,.280rem and maybe 285yds on the 30-06

300 yards: at least a 7mm magnum with a 160gr or 7mmWSM
350 yards: at least a .270 wby mag or 7mm wby mag
400 yards: .300 winchester magnum or a 7mm RUM
450 YARDS: .338 WIN mag or .300 wby mag
500 yards : a 300 or 338 RUM,.300 dakota or 330 dakota or .340 wby mag
600 plus : at least a .30-378 or 338-378 wby mag or a 30 or 33 cal lazzeroni
Click to expand...

This is EXTREMELY conservative. Folks kill elk all the time at 400-500 yards with 308's and consider a 30-06 a 500-600 yard elk gun. The magnums might provide a slight margin of error beyond 400, but aren't necessary until you start shooting beyond 500 yards.
 
I am glad you got the point.yes anything you post online about reloading or what a rifle can do or not do without knowing who is reading it,its always best to be conservative being that you dont know who is reading it.

shooting a deer nevermind elk at 400 with a .308 or 7mm-08 takes prime shot placement.this would be a very advanced shooter.maybe western elk are not as tough as New England moose too i have never hunted elk but ive always been told they are disperportionatley tough in relation to there size.i have eaten elk meat and its the best red meat i ever tried.

I was trying to be conservative.

the speed limit is posted for all drivers but dont you always see the state police doing 90 in the left lane even if there not responding to an emergency,which in new england is really speeding.they drive cars designed to drive at those speeds and they learn driving skills at police academy
i once knew a guy who grew up in a small town in western massachusetts and was hired by the state police.they sent him to barracks in boston.
but he did not want to live in urban eastern,mass,so he commuted every day 90 miles from his tiny town to boston.at speeds of 100mph
 
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again I think you are confusing PSI with FTlbs. as I calculated for you, a 750gr bullet fired from a 50 BMG is only capable of 78 PSI which is 1/25th of 2000PSI. elk just aren't that tough. even if you got PSI and FTlbs confused, there are very few sporting cartridges out there that have been in production more than 30 years that are capable of that kind of energy, meaning that every person in the last 200 years that's killed an elk was using a marginal or underpowered round. this is not the case. 1000 is all I could ever see needing. I've been told that deer require at least 500 FTlbs but I've taken deer with about a 3rd of that.
 
If 1000ft/lbs is the minimum you could technically use the Grendel out to 440 yards and still have 12ft-lbs over the minimum impact energy.
At 440 yards you have about 1880fps left and 1012ft-lbs energy. That should be enough 'Umph' to bring down the elk with proper shot placement.

I was under the impression that the generally accepted minimum was 1000ft-lbs for deer and 1500ft/lbs for elk. Even If we were to use the 1500ft-lb figure, you'd still have a reasonable 150 yard elk gun with the Grendel and a good bullet.
 
I would load up the Barnes 120 gr. TSX to as hot as will be safe and shoot well, keep the range within reason, and assuming you do your part I would think it would do its part.
 
i see people quoting me but i dont see a quote symbol i can click on.i dont know how to quote.

energy as far as i know gun shooting is: foot pounds per square inch of kenetic energy.psi is just easier to write.its not one system or the other but there the same equation.to save typing some people say ft/lbs others say psi

if my last posts where read i admitted my specs were cautious.

if your in the field maybe your 1000 to 1500 energy may be best

if your buying a new rifle and working up handloads for it,planning with the 2000 energy formula is a better idea.
if the only rifle you have is a 6.5 grendal then make that work for you.if i was buying an elk rifle i would be torn between a 30-378 wby using a 200gr or a 7mm RUM using a 175gr A frame.

its like black bear hunting.any deer rifle from a 30-30 up works fine for a heart shot at 50 yards near a cornfield or berry bushes.

a lot of people say bring a 30-06 or better to hunt bear in an apple orchard because the rotten apples get the bears drunk and they get crazy.
it never hurts to plan ahead
 
another thing is that i think my calculations are reasonable.some people say you need a .338 mag to even kill an elk.with better bullets those attitudes are fading away but many people still believe that.

i will give you 3 mock quotes from gun mag writers

Craig Boddington; you need at least a 600 nitro to kill a prairie dog

Rick Jameson; if you cant kill an elephant with a 25-06 you need to practice your shooting

Layne Simpson ; never hunt with a gun i did not invent
 
I would be scared to even try to guess how many Elk have been killed with a .30-30 between 100 and 150 yards. If you do the math, at what yardage does a .300 Win mag become a .30-30 at 150 yards? You do not need the monster cannons to harvest Elk. Having said that, I hunt them with 7 RUM.:rolleyes: I shot one at 715 to 720 and it dropped like a ton of bricks fell on it.
 
I'm liking this thread. A well placed bullet is a well placed bullet no matter which rifle fired it.

A 22 to the head does the job if the goal is meat.

I've also heard similar to green_MTman's

a lot of people say bring a 30-06 or better to hunt bear in an apple orchard because the rotten apples get the bears drunk and they get crazy.

My dad must have shot 10+ Black bears with a 32 winchester for years till he got a larger rifle. Then he still used the 32. If a person has no faith in their rifle or abilities then they lose.

Know your abilities and shot placement any you're golden.

I also have a 6.5 and it's deadly accurate.
 
well if we're talking about a an average 170gr, round nosed, lever action safe round at 150 yards, your average 180gr, 300 winmag load has about the same velocity with a little more energy at a little over 500 yards.
 
Actually, the .300 Win mag has more energy at 800 yds than the .30-30 has at 150. The Win mag has more energy at 700 than the .30-30 has at 100. Thats comparing 150 grain round/flat nose in .30-30 to a 180 Gr boat tail spitzer in the .300 Win mag.
 
My wife hunts all big game including elk with her custom Browning in 6.5mm Swede. She has taken a bull and a cow with this rifle. Both took two shots through the chest organs. Deep penetration is predictable with the 140 grain Nosler Partition bullet.

Jack
 
good load.at 6.5 swede velocities a swift A frame or barnes X like toughness is never needed.
i actually ordered 140 partitions,130 accubonds and 140gr sierra's game kings yesterday.not all three just which ever of the 3 the gun store could back order.

maybe to use if I can win a tag in the 2014 moose lottery
 
well, I may be leaning more toward 130gr bullets. the 129 interbonds or 130 accubond long ranges may be a bit better. I'll probably experiment with all three just to see what I get the best accuracy with and expansion testing will definitely be in store for the ABs and ETs... wouldn't want them breaking up or failing to open properly.
 
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