Shotgun693
New member
It's odd that ya'll can't find .45 Colt Ammo. Every shop I go to, and today's gunshow, have plenty. I seldom buy factory but if I want some they have it. Most I see is Winchester Silvertips or Cowboy but others are there too.
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45 Colt versus 44 Magnum
- Thread starter tomrkba
- Start date
It all depends on what you decide to use for the limiting factor. If you use SAAMI pressures the 44 wins in a landslide. If you use what's the most powerful factory ammo the 44 wins but not by enough to matter. If you use the actual cartride case as the limiting factor the 45 Colt will win because if you use a FA 5 shot for your platform you can load the 360gr bullets and crimp them in the top lube groove and load to 454 Casull power. How do you think they came up with the Casull?
I'm wondering which barrel length judge your friend was using. I wonder what the velocity of the STs were.The Winchester Slivertips performed poorly in butchering Hogs.. very poorly..
The original loading for the 44 mag was producing 1200-1300 ft-lbs of energy, just 200-300 short of modern 454 loads. Later on, the power level of the factory 44mag loads was reduced to 1000 ft-lbs and I am guessing this was done because of all the model 29's that were falling apart, like two of mine did using the hot loads. I had both a 29 and a 629 and both shot loose in less than 2k rounds of 1200-1300 ft-lb ammo. My 25 year old blackhawk and my 18 year old redhawk have shot 4 times that much with no issue. In any case, I also had a 45lc blackhawk and loved it. Shot some very stout loads out of it, near std 44 mag levels. But I would never have done that out of my non-ruger guns.
Both of these calibers have killed more north American game than probably any other handgun caliber. I like them both. I think the big advantage the 44 has is, the availability of stout guns made for it and wide ranging availability of stout ammo. However, if you reload, either caliber will work.
Both of these calibers have killed more north American game than probably any other handgun caliber. I like them both. I think the big advantage the 44 has is, the availability of stout guns made for it and wide ranging availability of stout ammo. However, if you reload, either caliber will work.
rugersp101
New member
GO flying ashtrays GO!!!!!
It all comes to personal preference. If I was shooting factory ammo Id choose the 44.
FWIW, Out of a 5.5" Blackhawk, a .45 255gr hard cast Kieth style bullet at about 1000 fps will shoot quarter to quarter on a 175lb South Carolina whitetail and both shoulders of a very ****** off 150 lb feral hog.
FWIW, Out of a 5.5" Blackhawk, a .45 255gr hard cast Kieth style bullet at about 1000 fps will shoot quarter to quarter on a 175lb South Carolina whitetail and both shoulders of a very ****** off 150 lb feral hog.
44 vs 45, or ".429" vs .451"
Having had 5.5" Redhawks in both chamberings, and as a past manufacturer of custom high-performance handgun ammo, I have an opinion:
The 45 Colt can be loaded to a higher work potential.
Like that 335g Cast Performance load mentioned above....
The 45 Colt Anaconda can take near-Redhawk loads (so my customers proved, repeatedly).
Figure your possible targets (brownies? 45 Colt Redhawk) and choose carefully.
I kept my 44 Redhawk, due to the availability of store-bought choices, and reduced recoil (yes, enough to matter when at the limits), and because all the dinosaurs around the house are dead.
And because I use it for USPSA competition, too.
A33102
Having had 5.5" Redhawks in both chamberings, and as a past manufacturer of custom high-performance handgun ammo, I have an opinion:
The 45 Colt can be loaded to a higher work potential.
Like that 335g Cast Performance load mentioned above....
The 45 Colt Anaconda can take near-Redhawk loads (so my customers proved, repeatedly).
Figure your possible targets (brownies? 45 Colt Redhawk) and choose carefully.
I kept my 44 Redhawk, due to the availability of store-bought choices, and reduced recoil (yes, enough to matter when at the limits), and because all the dinosaurs around the house are dead.
And because I use it for USPSA competition, too.
A33102
The 45 Colt can be loaded to a higher work potential.
Like that 335g Cast Performance load mentioned above....
Not true at all. factory loads in the 44 mag can be had more powerful than the 45lc and reloading manuals I have checked also show higher loadings for the 44 mag. All the way up to 355 grain bullets. But definitely in the 330-340 grain loads. The loads are more powerful than the 45lc but by a small margin. But still more powerful. You obviously felt lighter recoil because the loads you shot were lighter, not because the 44 mag isn't hotter when you want it to be.
Pathfinder45
New member
There are some good points here.......
.....but some of it is hard to swallow. Like this:
.....but some of it is hard to swallow. Like this:
First of all, we were comparing two revolver cartridges, not scoped hand-rifles. Since the vast majority of the revolvers in these two calibers will not be scoped, I would prefer not to consider scopes to be particularly relevant here. So, I dare say, with iron sighted revolvers in either caliber with barrels of conventional revolver lengths; I believe there are very few people that can reliably put a full cylinder of ammo onto a paper plate at 75 yards off-hand. I'm pretty good at 25 yards. But I don't think I could keep all 6 rounds on that plate at 50 yards. Maybe my 4-5/8" barrel has too short a sight radius...... But if you shoot that charging Grizzly in Alaska at 50 yards in self defense you can expect to be prosecuted. The point of this is that there were comments on the superior sectional density and ballistic coefficient and thus trajectory of one vs the other. Again, irrelevant. Within the practical accuracy limitations of the shooter and their revolver neither has any advantage in trajectory. In my locality, the cost of factory ammo is nearly the same; again no winner. Availability of ammo is currently good for both but their is a wider selection for .44 Magnum. Score one point for the .44. If you decisively prefer double action revolvers, honestly, the rim on .45 Colt's case is perhaps marginal. Score another point for .44 Magnum. How about power? Let's stop kidding ourselves. Remember those plates? When you load either round with heavy full-house loads, your scores are going to go down, way down. Maybe some of y'all are exceptional, but I doubt it. After a couple of cylinders of that you will likely have developed a serious flinch. 'Course that's not obvious 'til you drop the hammer on an empty chamber that you thought was loaded. Between the two cartridges I think the .44 magnum is the better choice for most other shooters. Both are much better as handloaded than factory ammo. Mine is an original Vaquero, .45 Colt. Best ammo if I am limited to one: Starline cases, hand-cast Lee 255 RNFP bullet, 14.0 grains HS-7 powder, CCI or Federal magnum primers, chronographed velocity 1050-1075 FPS. And I honestly don't like shooting it above 1,200 FPS with bullets much heavier than that. .45 Colt; it's not for everyone. "If you slow down, you'll get a more harmonious outcome." P.S. I should point out that the load recipe listed above may be exceed the safe limits of older revolvers and replicas. Hodgdon HS-7 powder has been discontinued. 14.0 grains was listed on the bottle with 250 grain bullets but is expected by them to deliver around 900 FPS. Clearly, I'm getting more, thus the pressure must be higher as well. Some reloading manuals recommend 12 grains of it for that bullet weight in original Colts and the like. Be cautious; be safe. Pathfinder45Plenty of people are capable with a handgun far beyond 75, and when people who are capable push out to 150 or even farther, picking the absolutely correct handgun and load is paramount. I use an xp100 in .221 fireball, and I guarantee you, I could put a bullet with that gun into a deer's kill zone at 200 from a solid rest.
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ah, grasshopper
Perhaps we are working with a different understanding of the word "power".
'Bolt head thrust' is the physical mechanism that allows the 45 Colt to offer less perceived recoil.
Having done a bit of experimenting in both chamberings, with the 45 Colt getting bullets up to 395g, I maintain that from identical platforms the equally-loaded 45 Colt will perform more terminal work.
Diameter matters.
Using my 45 Redhawk for USPSA competition, I found no issues with its small rim.
A well-driven .451" 325g Swift A-Frame will run longways through a 225lb deer from a measured 75 yds. Yes it expands; yes it stops against the hide on the far end. Maybe...
Garrett and BuffaloBore; buy in confidence (and Beartooth and Cast Performance).
Not true at all. factory loads in the 44 mag can be had more powerful than the 45lc and reloading manuals I have checked also show higher loadings for the 44 mag. All the way up to 355 grain bullets. But definitely in the 330-340 grain loads. The loads are more powerful than the 45lc but by a small margin. But still more powerful. You obviously felt lighter recoil because the loads you shot were lighter, not because the 44 mag isn't hotter when you want it to be.
Perhaps we are working with a different understanding of the word "power".
'Bolt head thrust' is the physical mechanism that allows the 45 Colt to offer less perceived recoil.
Having done a bit of experimenting in both chamberings, with the 45 Colt getting bullets up to 395g, I maintain that from identical platforms the equally-loaded 45 Colt will perform more terminal work.
Diameter matters.
Using my 45 Redhawk for USPSA competition, I found no issues with its small rim.
A well-driven .451" 325g Swift A-Frame will run longways through a 225lb deer from a measured 75 yds. Yes it expands; yes it stops against the hide on the far end. Maybe...
Garrett and BuffaloBore; buy in confidence (and Beartooth and Cast Performance).
Pathfinder45 said:But if you shoot that charging Grizzly in Alaska at 50 yards in self defense you can expect to be prosecuted.
Reckon I best not go back, then. There's now way I'd let one get any closer than that, if it came for me in the open.
Always liked these threads comparing 44 vs 45. I had a FA 44 and 454. I decided to sell one but couldn't decide which. After careful consideration I sold the 44. I can launch a 405 boolit from my 454 with a 45 Colt cylinder from 500fps to 1300fps. I'll take .452 over any .429 but that's just me....
I picked the 45 LC just because it was a 45LC.
I have yet to load the Blackhawk to its “potential”, just a 250g bullet to 1050(ish) ft/sec
If I really need something with power I will use my 480R which can move a .475 Cal, 325g (Speer) bullet to about 1600Ft/sec or a 400g bullet to about 1400ft/sec.
That makes the 480R the clear winner, that said, the 45Colt is just so cool.
The 44Mag is, well, just the 44 mag.
Snake
I have yet to load the Blackhawk to its “potential”, just a 250g bullet to 1050(ish) ft/sec
If I really need something with power I will use my 480R which can move a .475 Cal, 325g (Speer) bullet to about 1600Ft/sec or a 400g bullet to about 1400ft/sec.
That makes the 480R the clear winner, that said, the 45Colt is just so cool.
The 44Mag is, well, just the 44 mag.
Snake
Me too. That's why the .45 Colt is my woods gun.... not that the .44Spec or .44Mag are bad, just I like the .45 Colt better. If good enough for Linebaugh and Seyfried who have actually 'applied' it, definitely good enough for me who, as yet, has not needed to prove it.I'll take .452 over any .429 but that's just me....
What exactly are the stronger .45LC guns? Is the Blackhawk up on the list? I'm wanting to get a long barreled .45LC in a year or so. Uberti makes an 18 inch barreled SAA clone but its legally a rifle so I'd have to deal with that and I know it won't be the strongest gun either. I really want a gun with at least around a 10 inch barrel. I considered the BFR but I don't need it to shoot .410 and if I'm spending $1050 I'm buying a 45/70 instead. I'd rather keep it single action. Might just get a single shot.
Now, with the .45LC causing problems in double actions, never had a problem. I have a Rossi Circuit Judge and shoot anything from cowboy rounds to hunting stuff. The most powerful it's shot is either Winchester Super X or Hornady LeveRevolution. No jams or anything of the sort and it's been shot a couple hundred times.
Now, with the .45LC causing problems in double actions, never had a problem. I have a Rossi Circuit Judge and shoot anything from cowboy rounds to hunting stuff. The most powerful it's shot is either Winchester Super X or Hornady LeveRevolution. No jams or anything of the sort and it's been shot a couple hundred times.
Yes, the BH, SBH Hunter, RedHawk, Super RedHawk, Freedom Arms 83.... Probably a few others. Note there is a .45 Colt (medium frame) Ruger flattop around (same as the New Vaquero) that is NOT for Ruger Only Loads. Colt SAA, USFA, Uberti, and all the rest of the SAA clones are NOT, repeat are NOT capable of handling Ruger Only Loads.What exactly are the stronger .45 Colt guns? Is the Blackhawk up on the list? I'm wanting to get a long barreled .45 Colt in a year or so.
Concerning the smaller rim on 45LC cartridges, Redhawks have a very large extractor star on the 45LC models which wraps around more than 50% of the cartridge. I've never had a problem extracting cartridges with mine.
I have both a 44M and 45LC Redhawk. I handload for both of them and have done a lot of testing over a chronograph with max loads of H110. They are very close in power factor (I like to use power factor instead of muzzle energy for comparisons). My 44M comes out ahead but it also has a 5.5 in barrel instead of a 4 in barrel. If I subtract 100 fps for the extra 1.5 inches of barrel, the results are very close. So, to me, they are basically the same.
My practice loads for the range are:
21 grains of 2400 under a 250 gr. RNFP = 1250 fps out of a 4 inch 45LC Redhawk.
20 grains of 2400 under a 240 gr. RNFP = 1279 fps out of a 5.5 inch 44M Redhawk.
I have both a 44M and 45LC Redhawk. I handload for both of them and have done a lot of testing over a chronograph with max loads of H110. They are very close in power factor (I like to use power factor instead of muzzle energy for comparisons). My 44M comes out ahead but it also has a 5.5 in barrel instead of a 4 in barrel. If I subtract 100 fps for the extra 1.5 inches of barrel, the results are very close. So, to me, they are basically the same.
My practice loads for the range are:
21 grains of 2400 under a 250 gr. RNFP = 1250 fps out of a 4 inch 45LC Redhawk.
20 grains of 2400 under a 240 gr. RNFP = 1279 fps out of a 5.5 inch 44M Redhawk.
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I'm wondering which barrel length judge your friend was using. I wonder what the velocity of the STs were.
Sorry it took so long to answer..
I believe his barrel is 3 inches... The Winchester Silvertips were like 14 dollars a box.. I cant tell you anything more specific other than they seriously sucked..
I recall years ago, deer hunting in Wyoming, I needed some bullets. I was able to buy .44 mag's off the shelf. The 45 Colt were all "standard" low power loads.
A couple of conculsions can be made........................
Better factory loads are easier to find for a .44 magnum, if that matters.
And if you reload, they are so close in performance, I wouldn't sell one to buy the other calibar.
A couple of conculsions can be made........................
Better factory loads are easier to find for a .44 magnum, if that matters.
And if you reload, they are so close in performance, I wouldn't sell one to buy the other calibar.
Perhaps we are working with a different understanding of the word "power".
'Bolt head thrust' is the physical mechanism that allows the 45 Colt to offer less perceived recoil.
Having done a bit of experimenting in both chamberings, with the 45 Colt getting bullets up to 395g, I maintain that from identical platforms the equally-loaded 45 Colt will perform more terminal work.
The word power means energy, momentum, taylor KO, etc. Typically kinetic energy is a measure of power, but is obviously not a good measure of game killing power. In factory loadings the 44 magnum beats the 45lc by a good margin and is available anywhere. In reloading they are about the same and the edge in "energy" still goes to the 44 mag. The difference is minute and not worth mentioning if you reload. Sometimes to heavy isn't always the best.
I maintain that the 45lc and the 44 mag are basically equal when reloading and the 44 mag is far superior with factory ammo. Find a 45lc load that even comes close to this: buffalo bore 44 Magnum - 340 gr. L.F.N. - G.C. (1,478 fps/M.E. 1,649 ft. lbs.)The next closest load is garrets 330 grain load at 1435 ft-lbs. if you use TKO formula I doubt you will find anything higher until you get to 454 casull.
In the end if you reload you should be happy with either, but if you don't, go with the 44 mag.
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