45 Colt versus 44 Magnum

Trajectory? Two bullets at same velocity .... end up at the same place.
Click to expand...

not even remotely correct.

And at normal handgun range 0 - 75 yards ... not going to be a big deal anyway
Click to expand...


Plenty of people are capable with a handgun far beyond 75, and when people who are capable push out to 150 or even farther, picking the absolutely correct handgun and load is paramount. I use an xp100 in .221 fireball, and I guarantee you, I could put a bullet with that gun into a deer's kill zone at 200 from a solid rest. I don't shoot it much any more, but most of my groups ranged from 1-3 inches at 100. That is adequate for a shot on a deer with a good round.

Wouldn't do it, no way on god's green earth, but I could, and would maybe take that shot if I was shooting something capable of a reliable 200 yard kill, but it would be in very strict circumstances. I do not, and will not trust my skills to do it in the field on game just for grins.

I've got nothing against handgun hunting, but it has some moral challenges, imo, just like bowhunting, and rifle hunting.

. Beyond that your into 'use your rifle' range.
Click to expand...

Agreed for at least 90+% of the shooters out there. Go to a handgun silhouette match, and you'll see people who can bang critters at 200 meters offhand. a good handgun hunter Shooting a top grade handgun/ammo unit from a solid rest with a handgun in the field, depending on your personal expertise level, is reasonably equivalent to the average walmart rifle/ammo hunter with a rifle. Probably better.

I think that is a very fair assessment. Beyond 200? that is where I start questioning the ethics of shooting at game with a handgun. I think that even the best hunters are pressing the absolute limit of their accuracy and are taking too much of a risk of letting a wounded animal get away.

Not everyone takes that as seriously as I do, but my thoughts are that taking any shot without at least an 80% certainty that you can hit the kill zone is wrong. tsking a hail mary shot and leaving an animal to bleed out and die, or worse yet, spend a couple weeks crippled and die of gangrene is a sin.

My opinion. Disagree if you choose.
 
I'd call it my over compensator for my short comings.
Click to expand...

Never admit that you have shortcomings. It's a sign of weakness.

I will admit here that I have a single shortcoming. My dad was 3" taller than I am.

The rest of me, as far as you guys need to know, is perfect. :rolleyes:
 
Actually my Anaconda is a .44 and it seems like it should easily handle heavy duty .45 Colt were it so chambered.
 
I have heard it said in the past that the anaconda was second of the 3 big DA revovlers in strength and durability.

the original S&W #29 was the lightest built, then anaconda, and redhawk, with redhawk as the strongest.

That's what I've heard in the past, and it's not a question about what they are like now, or what is available now. is it correct regarding "vintage" original production guns?
 
i read any article late last year in handloader magazine on a coffee break about heavy bullets in 45 and 44 magnums.
The author espoused that bullets over 300 grains in 45 colt or 44 magnum werea ctually detrimental as the recoil,flash, did not make up for the low increase in penetration provided by the larger bullets. and apparently the mans been shooting the big thumpers since the redhawk came out.
 
Different people, even of considerable experience, can have different opinions.

I have seen written by several large bore handgunners that in .44 caliber, the 310-315 grain are the best balanced, and in .45 caliber, the 335-340 grain are tops. Either of these bullets at 1100-1200 fps will do anything that can be done with a handgun in N.A.

Reports of end to end penetration on large bull moose are good enough for me-- no need to punish the gun or the shooter with any more velocity.
 
Pretty easy to tell who owns 44s, who owns 45s and who own both. I own both and like them both. This isn't worth arguing over.
Click to expand...

Are you trying to ruin a good friendship? :rolleyes:
My best friend is a .45lc advocate. I am a .44 mag. fan.
We have been arguing the advantages/disadvantages of one over the other for years and having a great time in the process. Now you want to end that friendship? ;)
 
something that I find to be relevant would be what the target is. deer or moderate sized elk, black bear, hog, so forth? either .44 magnum or heavy .45 will function equally well, I suspect. with either one, with the loads being tossed about in this discussion, you're going to get huge wounds that should be pretty much the same.

Grizzly? Bigger?

let me say first that I wouldn't go hunting big dangerous game with either one of these cartridges. big dangerous game should be hunted with a rifle. For killing big bear, in any case, I'd rather go full power .44 loads or even stronger, and count on the .44 to give a few more inches of penetration if you have to make frontal shots at the thing.
 
I'm pretty much convinced that had Elmer Keith had a stronger revolver to work with other than the Colt SAA, the .44 Magnum as we know it today would likely not seen the light of day. Keith started his experiments using the .45 Colt cartridge, 2400 and SAAs, but after blowing up too many revolvers he turned to S&W and the .44 Special.

I have a Ruger Redhawk in .45 Colt. My all-business load is 24grs of H-110 pushing a 335gr WFNGC Cast Performance boolit which is max book and running at about 30,000psi. I could probably take it up to 32,000psi and still be within the safe parameters of the gun, but I don't need to as that load will shoot through a coastal brown from any angle he poses a threat from.
 
Last edited:
Yep and that's pretty much as much gun as almost anyone needs... almost.

I've read on a few forums where handloaders agree that you cannot stuff enough H110 into a 44 mag case to blow up a Ruger or 44 FA. They become unclear on if that also applies to the 45LC. I personally don't want to find out they are wrong, if you catch my drift. Either round will bring home the deer or hog and one can be bought at most Walmart, the other is a special order or handloading only affair. That, to me, is the big difference.

I do wonder why the Freedom Arms 45LC uses a shorter cartridge than standard though.
 
Webleymkv said:
In guns of equal strength, it's basically a case of six in one hand, half a dozen in the other as they'll both do the same thing.
Click to expand...

I agree, but I do have some responses..

...we find that the difference in ballistics between the two cartridges is so small that nothing you could ever shoot would be likely to notice the difference.
Click to expand...

Actually BB offers a .44 magnum round that has considerably higher muzzle energy than anything they offer in .45 colt. But you are right, nothing you shoot will ever know or care.

Also, we see the difference in diameter and frontal area often quoted, but no one ever seems to stop and think about what, exactly, that diameter gets you. While it is true that, for the same OAL, a .45 Long Colt can use a slightly heavier bullet, it is often overlooked that the smaller diameter of the .44 Magnum allows it to penetrate just as well, if not better, with a lighter bullet due to its better cross-sectional density. As for the difference in frontal area, lets be honest here: the true top-end loadings in both cartridges are usually loaded with tough non-expanding bullets. This is because, on the type of game that these loadings are intended for, the only two factors that really matter are placement and penetration and no amount of frontal area can make up for shortcomings in those two areas.
Click to expand...

This point kind of self-defeats. If frontal area is of only minor importance compared to penetration then you should not be using JHP. If a non-JHP is used then either one all but guarantees a through-and-through on anything in North America, even if you go through the long way. With penetration being equal the ONLY difference is the slight frontal advantage of the .45 colt.

Finally, the issue of pressure is often raised. While it is true that .45 Long Colt can attain its performance at lower pressure than .44 Magnum, I've yet to see anyone explain why exactly it makes a difference....
Click to expand...

Lower pressure amounts to less felt recoil from the .45 colt for the same muzzle energy and velocity.

Which cartridge is better is more dependant, I think, upon the user and his application. While a handloader can produce .45LC ammo just as easily as .44 Mag, someone who does not handload will be able to acquire .44 Mag ammo easier and cheaper. Also, while boutique ammo makes the ballistics very close, most "off the shelf" .45LC ammo will deliver ballistics much closer to that of .44 Spl or .45 ACP than .44 Mag.
Click to expand...

Don't know about where you live, but where I live about 25% of all stores carry Double-Tap, and Double-Tap offers a .45 colt +P ammo in the 1100-1200 ft/lbs range. Also a couple even carry Buffalo Bore. But overall you are right, powerful .44 is easier to find and a bit cheaper.
 
Last edited:
Bingo back to Elmers early experiments.The steel gets pretty thin around the larger cartridge.IIRC,the steel at the cylinder bolt cuts on a S+W model 25-5 is about .016 at its thinnest.

I am not an expert on Dick Casull and his early 454 Casull experiments,but my understanding is,that it was mostly about putting the cartridge in a strong enough firearm.The 45 Colt itself can be hotrodded quite a ways,in the right firearm.At least in part,the .454 case is longer to prevent it from chambering in the wrong gun,like .357/38 spl.

Ross Seifred wrote a few articles about his tests,and,in his opinion,the 45 Colt in a Ruger Bisley or Redhawk was a better choice for "bigger".He the went to Africa and validated his thoughts on Cape Buffalo.

I enjoy Ross Seifred's writing.I figure I can learn from him.

But,we are talking speciallized hotrod stuff,not factory loads in a SAA or clone.

One interesting fact.The rim dia is about the same on both of them.

Which means the 45 has less rim.I do not know this from experience,but I have been told that with a DA 45 Colt,if your ejection technique is not proper,it is possible to get the ejector star to slip past the rims,which then ties up the wheel.Once again,I do not have a DA 45,no experience.

With a hard cast Kieth SWC heavy load,either will do whatever you can get done with a handgun,pretty much.
 
This point kind of self-defeats. If frontal area is of only minor importance compared to penetration then you should not be using JHP. If a non-JHP is used then either one all but guarantees a through-and-through on anything in North America, even if you go through the long way. With penetration being equal the ONLY difference is the slight frontal advantage of the .45 colt.
Click to expand...

I'm not talking about using JHP. The kinds of game that JHP is preferable for include deer, feral hogs, and other similarly sized animals that don't really require a full-power, fire breathing load in either caliber. As a matter of fact, I'm not even really talking so much about hunting as I am self-defense from animals like large bears. When stopping a charging grizzly with a handgun, the only two factors that make a difference are where you place your bullet and how deeply that bullet penetrates. No amount of expansion, frontal area, or anything else is going to make up for poor shot placement.

Lower pressure amounts to less felt recoil from the .45 colt for the same muzzle energy and velocity.
Click to expand...

For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. If two cartridges are pushing the same weight bullet at the same velocity from the same type of gun, the recoil of those two cartridges will be very, very close to each other. It is also worth mentioning that in similar guns, such as a Ruger Redhawk, that the .44 Magnum version will usually weigh an ounce or two more due to it having more steel in the cylinder because of the thicker chamber walls. This increase in weight will dampen recoil somewhat and would likely offset the effect on recoil that the .45 Long Colt's lower pressure has.

Of course, felt recoil is completely subjective and will vary from person to person. It is entirely possible to have two different people shoot identical guns in .45 LC and .44 Mag and both may have different ideas about which one had more recoil.

Don't know about where you live, but where I live about 25% of all stores carry Double-Tap, and Double-Tap offers a .45 colt +P ammo in the 1100-1200 ft/lbs range. Also a couple even carry Buffalo Bore. But overally you are right, powerful .44 is easier to find and a bit cheaper.
Click to expand...

There isn't a store which carries Double Tap, Buffalo Bore, Grizzly, or Garrett ammo in stock within at least 100 miles of me if not further. The closest thing to boutique ammo that I can routinely find in stock anywhere is Cor-Bon, but finding that in .45 Long Colt is a pretty rare occurence and even then it's almost always their self-defense JHP. By comparison, I can get .44 Magnum ammunition from Wal-Mart, Meyer, Rural King, Gander Mountain, Bass Pro Shop, Dick's Sporting Goods, and just about anywhere else that sells handgun ammunition. When I see .45 Long Colt in stock, it's almost always either Cowboy Action loadings or Self-Defense JHP's like Winchester Silvertip or Speer Gold Dot.
 
.45 Long Colt is a pretty rare occurrence
Click to expand...
Yes factory .45 Colt is hard to find even around here.... I reload the .45 Colt so no big deal. On factory ammo availability the .44Mag wins every time. But hand loaded ammo.... then we have discussions/opinions as above :) .
 
Quote:
.45 Long Colt is a pretty rare occurrence

Yes factory .45 Colt is hard to find even around here.... I reload the .45 Colt so no big deal. On factory ammo availability the .44Mag wins every time. But hand loaded ammo.... then we have discussions/opinions as above .
Click to expand...

As I mentioned earlier, handloading alleviates ammo avialability and price concerns for many cartridges including .45 Long Colt. However, not everyone handloads so availability and price concerns are worthy of mention.
 
I enjoy shooting my 45 LC's with 255 L 8.5 grains Unique. This does everything that an excellent self defense round should do, and the recoil and muzzle blast is not excessive.

I do not shoot anywhere near the same number of full bore 44 Magnum rounds as I do not enjoy the recoil and muzzle blast.

If people want power, there are a lot more nasty handgun cartridges out there. Ones, like the 500 S&W, which I don't ever plan to shoot.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top