44 Magnum and approaching hostile human at 50 yards.

velocity

Socrates: "The 185's at 1900 drop 6" at 100 yards"
Did you mean 1600 fps? The question is moot since even at 1600 it'll be flat shooting but I have been unable to find any data that will give me a 185 at 1900 from a 7.5'' barrel.
Pete
 
darkgael:

Lee Jurras used to get that out of a 44. He had a few reloading tricks, like a tar like coating, and, very heavy crimp to keep the bullet in place, and allow the H110 to do it's work. The problem with light bullets is to get such velocities, you have to resort to such stuff, and, know how to do it, and, it still does a REAL number on the forcing cone, slamming it real hard, and eventually erroding it.

I used to use super hard, cheap, gaschecked, ball, 230 grains in 45/454 level loads in my Seville. The problem was the same: the bullet would move prior to peak pressure, resulting in a rather fun, giant fireball, and a bullet moving in the 1800 fps range, out of a 6" barrel.

If you look at the Hodgdon reloading site

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

and look at the 180 grain XTP, loaded with H-110, you'll see 1896 fps for that combination, at 29K. I suspect the reason that is a max load is the bullet moves, and that's as high as the pressure goes. Using a very heavy crimp, and some tar, and you can exceed 1900 fps pretty easily.

On the otherhand, if you don't mind the fireball, that's one heck of a potent combination, with relatively little recoil, for what it is.
 
FIrepower, I think in some ways, the idea of a pistol is nice, but with a scope on a SRH, you are almost as big as carrying a Mp5 or a Krink AK.
A Krink or a Mp5 with the stock folded, and the short barrel will be very compact, and yet have a much higher probability of hitting someone at 75 yards plus.
Even a mini Uzi would be a better choice. loaded with Good HP ammo, a 9 mm Uzi would not be a pleasant welcome for a bandit.


Be Safe..... How about posting some pics of your local area, showing what your terrain is like? that would kinda cool for us...
 
some idea of landscape

guntotin.....
Here is a pic of a landscape. I do have quite a few smgs but not uzi since isreali weapon is hard to come by.
 

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How often do you have incidents out there? How much of that picture is your property? If you have a lot of incidents and all of it is your property, you could always try to reinforce it with arbed/electrical fencing. You could also plant thorny plants (crown of thorns or something similar) where you don't want people going. If you have the funds, you coule even go with cameras and motion sensors to give you more time to react. The access areas could be modified to give you a good firing point while leaving anyone approaching in the open.

Basically, turn your place into a bunker.
 
Well the incidents are not often, but the chances always are there. This is all my property (my brother's included).

I generally stay in the capital (Islamabad) where I keep only four guard with AKs.
 
From the book: 'Not Looking to Die'
by A. Grant Macomber

INTRODUCTION
by Bill Sansom

The first bullet crashed through the door and hit me just above my belt buckle. It ripped through my abdomen, shattered my right hip at the joint, and careened down my leg bone, blasting my leg muscles into a jellied, bloodshot pulp. The impact of the .44 Mag. 240 gr. jacketed hollow point blew me off the three-step trailer house porch. I slammed against the side of a parked car and slid in a heap in six inches of new-fallen snow.

I had somehow managed to draw my Smith & Wesson .357 as the bullet hurled me through the air. But my arm was pinned under my stunned and broken body, the revolver still clenched tightly in my fist. The maniac who shot me stepped calmly out onto the porch. “I told you cops to leave me alone,” he snarled.

He slowly thumbed back the hammer of his single action six gun. The soft clicking of the revolving cylinder echoed off the walls of the tightly packed trailers in the frigid December dawn. He squinted down his outstretched arm at the Deputy Sheriff star on my jacket.

The second shot punched into my chest, disintegrating a two-inch piece of rib bone, searing a white hot railroad spike of fire through my left lung, dislocating my shoulder. The force of the bullet lifted me and skidded me a foot backwards. It also freed my pinned gun hand. My first two shots bracketed the third button down on his faded red union suit.

His third shot ricocheted off the frozen ground between my splayed out legs. The mushroomed slug tore out a swath of muscle and severed an artery just above my left knee.

My third 158 gr. jacketed hollow point caught him in his right elbow, spinning him backwards into his trailer. I kept pulling the trigger until there was nothing left but the snap of my firing pin falling on spent casings.

I heard the man thrashing around inside the trailer house, and I did not know how badly he was hit or even if he was hit. I attempted to reload my Model 19 S&W using two six-shot dump boxes on my gun belt. All the rounds fell out and rolled off my body into the snow. I was stunned and badly broken up by the bullets that had hit me. I could not raise my left arm or even lift my head up. I opened the cylinder of my six-shot revolver and with my right arm reached over as far as I could and shook the empty casings out. Then I lay the gun on my chest and felt around in the snow until I luckily found one live round. I poked the round into the cylinder and rolled the cylinder on my chest until it would put the round under my firing pin when cocked. I cocked my pistol and waited.

The man came crawling out of his trailer doorway and glared down at me lying on my back in the snow, his .44 magnum revolver cocked and clenched in his right fist. I lifted my revolver, took careful aim – and shot him through the temple.

The reason that I remember all this so clearly is that the incident has been played over almost every night these last twenty-four years in my dreams. I will never again be the second guy shooting.

I had been shooting 50 rounds a week of handloads just before that incident. I had a portable silhouette target that I carried in the trunk of my patrol car, and I would drive out into the brush and shoot some rounds from every conceivable position except flat on my back. My service revolver became an extension of my arm, and I could hit a bullseye five out of six out to 15 yards, draw and fire.

A handgun should never be used as a deterrent, but, if needed, it should be drawn and fired immediately, and always used to kill - not to wound or frighten your attacker. I can tell you several stories about misused handguns, and the grief the users suffered because of their lack of resolve.

Nobody knows if they are capable of killing another human being - until they do. Some people, maybe you are one of them, think a concealed weapons permit is an insurance policy against being mugged, raped, robbed, or embarrassed in front of your loved ones. Your license to carry a concealed weapon will give you a false sense of security. You are now armed. You may even think you are dangerous. In reality, the permit is likely to increase your chances of becoming a victim of a violent act. Announcing, "I’ve got a gun," is one of the quickest ways that I know of to get yourself killed.

You are a responsible, law abiding citizen. You are probably a business or professional person. You have a family, own a home. You are educated, reliable, and conscientious. You are not a law enforcement officer, private investigator, or a security guard. They are already licensed to carry a weapon; and they are also trained to know when and how to use it. You, on the other hand, have a concealed weapon permit because you are either afraid, or you are looking for trouble. There are no other reasons for a civilian to have a concealed weapon.

After you get the permit, your weapon will most likely remain under your car seat, in your desk drawer, or in the bottom of your purse. There will not be a round in the chamber. It may even be completely unloaded, the bullets hidden in some other place – for safety. You may have last shot the weapon two months, six months, a year ago, or when you shot it to qualify for your permit. But now you are unafraid because you have a possibly loaded gun – somewhere. Suddenly, the trouble you were looking out for is looking at you – while you are looking for your gun. There is only one place to have a concealed weapon: on your body. There is only one way to handle a weapon: often. And there is only one way to react to trouble: instinctively.

Just having a gun is not enough to protect you or your loved ones. You must know how to use a gun. You must be able to recognize danger in time to react immediately and lethally. You must prepare yourself beforehand, mentally and emotionally, to take another human life, and to face the legal and psychological consequences of your decision, so that you will not have to think about it in the split second that you will have to live or die.

This book is filled with real-life situations, where a gun was not enough, where it had to be mixed with blood and courage to stop a determined, often deranged, attacker. Read this book carefully. Put yourself into the shoes of those who stood fast, who faced the ultimate test of bravery. And lie in the street for awhile with those who lost their lives -- even though they were armed.


Bill Sansom
Saint Regis, Montana
Click to expand...

don't count on a .44 magnum to be a 'one shot stop'.

However I must say the .44 mgnum did indeed put the target down, just not out.

A web site has a useful ballistic calculator program that can help with bullet drop.

http://www.handloads.com/calc/
 
Here is another shot of the country side landscape of my farms.

I am trying to show that the area is such where 50+ meters is nothing surprising.
 

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Firepower,

Given your terrain (remote) and nature of the risk if attacked (extreme danger from AK47), and lack of bullet selection then you can't really worry about what happens beyond the target to much. Seems like you need to do what you have to do if the situation arises. As hilly as the land is there there is probably only a small chance the bullet would ever go much further than your immediate area.

Against human attackers practically any round from the .44 is going to be at least as lethal as a .223 or .7.62x39. Slower but a whole lot bigger. If you can hit accurately to 75 yds. then you are probably as well armed with your set up as possible. The .44 is good at least to 100 yds.

Any means you can devise for an early warning of intruders would give you a huge increase in response time.
 
It still doesn't make any sense... There is now way you would be able to hit someone at that distance if they were shooting at you with an AK or anything else actually. You would have to be extremely lucky, or have lots of practice/training. Your best/only option is to keep them ducking with suppressive fire while running for the rifle. If you see them first..guess what you run for the rifle before they start shooting at you. If you get pinned down some how then it would be nice to have a few more than 5/6 rounds don't you think?

Set up a few claymores, that'll stop them... :eek:
 
i usually have a few guards and when i go out in the forest a distance i take my aksu74 krinkov with 45 rd mag or m4a1 with trijicon scope. This 44 is just to protect or return fire when not really that far off since its more practical to carry, even though i always have g21 as well.

I am trying to get DE with a dozen mags to resolve the limited rounds issue.

I ran ballistic on remshoot software and found that at 200 yards 44 retains more energy than 223....
 
Stay Cool & Practice, Practice, Practice

Firepower!, my uncle -- Uncle Sam that is -- sent me to a desert area several years ago where I had the opportunity to meet several fine gentlemen from Pakistan, whom I was proud to know. I appreciate reading your questions and comments on this site.

Another thing I learned on that trip came from seeing folks very calmly make decisions that could easily result in their death or serious injury. Many combat veterans have the ability to remain calm and cool under fire. Others who have not been in combat simply realize their life lasts as long as God wills it to last, and therefor don't panic, either. I mention this because others have said it is not possible to stay in one spot and calmly placed aimed handgun fire on a target that is shooting at you with a rifle. Well, it might be impossible for me, but not so hard for others I have known. Stay confident.

Finally, get as much ammunition as you can and practice long range shooting as much as you can. It sounds like you are doing this. If possible, set up targets out there on your property, and practice shooting them with the .44. Developing skill gives you confidence that you can hit those attackers with your revolver, and confidence is what it takes to succeed in that game. Well, confidence, skill, and a certain amount of luck.

I wish you good luck in your endeavors, and good shooting and long life.
 
my personal weapons for country side

Here is my original Krinkov 5.45, RSRH .44 and M4A1.

I use these when in woods. The question about 44 is bascially asking advice and opinion on its emergency use.
 

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Yes,44 mag is very effective at 50 yards. Firing single action would be preferable. Use a good quality JHP bullet design and practice, practice, practice.
 
Not sure of the question

"Will a 44 from RSRH retain equal amount of energy as DE at 200?"

Firepower!, I'm not sure what "DE" is to try to answer your question.

It is really interesting to try to deal with this at a distance, since many of us could tell you the bullet weight in 2 minutes if you could hand us a cartridge. An inertial bullet puller, which costs about $15 and looks like a plastic hammer would separate the bullet from the powder and case in 15 seconds. Then put the bullet on a $40 balance beam scale and read out the weight. Then if you had a $20 Lee Loader, you could put the bullet right back in place!
 
DE is Desert Eagle.

Unfortunately the equiptment you mention is not available here in Pakistan. Did you check out my m4 and krinkov?
 
Is that scoped six-inch Ruger Redhawk in the picture the .44 magnum in question?

Practice, practice, practice. That is a fine gun, the .44 cartridge is more than capable against a man out to 100 yards, and with practice your scoped Redhawk platform should be a reliable backup to your rifles if you are ever forced to use it. If that's all you have in your hands at the time, it should perform well assuming you can get hits at those ranges.

But at those ranges, you should pick a rifle first.
 
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