.44 mag self defense

Ahoy Nanuk,

Thanks for the link (post #78). JM is quite the shooter, pictured below is one of the targets (sorry no video) from a 4" S&W 29 I shot a few days ago, but my 6 took over 2 seconds, 240 gr FMJ BEB FP over a healthy dose of H110.

After the session I was walking back to the car and went to pull out my earplugs only to discover I had forgotten to put them in...

...eh ...eh ...eh :rolleyes:
 

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Thanks for the link (post #78). JM is quite the shooter, pictured below is one of the targets (sorry no video) from a 4" S&W 29 I shot a few days ago, but my 6 took over 2 seconds, 240 gr FMJ BEB FP over a healthy dose of H110.
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Nothing wrong with that shooting.:D
 
44 Magnum For Self Defense

I use a 44 Magnum for self & home defense I just worked up a lower powered load i'am using a 240 cast SWC & around 6.5 grains of the IMR TRAILBOSS & it's a good load over penetration isn't such a probelm as with full power loads as i use for hunting I have a Ruger Super Redhawk 9.5" bbl & it shoots my self.home defense very well . I have used a 44 Magnum since i was 18 yrs old & haven't ever had no problem with it stopping anything JMHO.;)
 
When someone poses putting the .44 magnum on the table for self defense work when they go about town, or just watch tv at home. They instantly get derided as a fan boy of dirty harry?

if they posit the question of "25 roudn magazine for my matched pair of glock 45 acps?" they simply get told only need one gun, and 5 25 round magazines.

but the .44 is wayyyyyy to much.
 
To beat this horse, one more time, its not the .44Mag caliber that is any drawback, it is the use of common full house ammunition in the gun that makes it less than optimum for self defense.

Trouble is, when someone says .44Mag, most folks automatically assume the use of the full power (hunting loads) ammo.

Certain models of .44 magnum guns are quite fine for personal defense, provided they are loaded with the right ammo for the task.
 
to 44amp

caliber not cartridge level.

The only loads in 44 mag that i can find online, that dont require a 4-5 month back order are COWBOY action loads. Hardly a super hunting load power wise.
 
44Mag Defense

I shot my 44Mag today. Sweet, but for self defense keep in mind that there is an attorney attached to every bullet. Not one for you, but trying to sue you. If you use a round that can easily go through the bad guy, It is most likely going to hit something / someone else, and they, or their relatives are not going to be singing your praises. A 44 Magnum will go through walls, (as in yours and your neighbors). A 44 special would be better suited to social work.

If you are new to the caliber, perhaps you do not know that the same gun that shoots 44 mag will shoot a 44 Spl. Just like a .357 magnum can shoot 38 specials.
 
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gelatin tests,

that 44 mag load can go through 2 feet of gelatin like it wasnt there. So can a 148 grain wadcutter from a 38 special SNUB.

SO whats more dangerous to be using if your afraid of shooting through that overly friendly rapist and hitting the dogwalker 30 yards down the road?
 
44mag for defense

If you are saying that a .22lr and a 454 can both kill in a mile range, so it is just as good to use a 454 on rabbits as a .22, then I guess that you made your point.

I am not convinced that a 38 special has the same power to penetrate as a 44 magnum. I would not like to explain to a jury why I was using a gun capable of killing large game to merely stop a human from continuing their actions. Besides criminal court there is civil.
 
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To beat this horse, one more time, its not the .44Mag caliber that is any drawback, it is the use of common full house ammunition in the gun that makes it less than optimum for self defense.

Trouble is, when someone says .44Mag, most folks automatically assume the use of the full power (hunting loads) ammo.

Certain models of .44 magnum guns are quite fine for personal defense, provided they are loaded with the right ammo for the task.
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44 AMP, when we start talking about reduced-power magnum loads or specials, I often start to wonder why people don't just break ranks and bump up to .45 Colt in revolvers or .45acp in semi.

(BTW, I know my posts have been pretty down on the .44 Magnum but don't get me wrong. I think the assumed loads here are jim-dandy for hunting, range applications, or particular parts of the self-defense spectrum. As I raise doubts on its status an all-purpose defense caliber, I hope to both provoke thought and learn more myself on the underlying issue: matching caliber and other factors to the situations of our lives.)
 
when we start talking about reduced-power magnum loads or specials, I often start to wonder why people don't just break ranks and bump up to .45 Colt in revolvers or .45acp in semi.
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When you are talking only power levels one does wonder why, but the real world reasons can be many, and varied. One reason is simply that some folks don't have (or want) multiple handguns. Some might settle on the .44 Mag as a good, or good enough "do it all" round. And it can be, provided you know enough it to be able to use the ammo best suited to the task.

If you are a revolver only guy (and I admit they are becoming rare), the .45acp in an auto pistol, no matter how good, just isn't for you.

Also, that same revolver guy gets nothing, in terms of gun advantage from going to a .45 Colt or .45ACP in a revolver, as these guns are the same size as the .44s. So for a carry gun, its essentially the same package.

.44 Special, lighter loads in .44 mag brass, regular .45 Colt, and .45ACP are all very similar in self defense performance. All use large frame revolvers, however, only the .44 Mag allow for the use of magnum level loads, when/if desired.

Several have said .44 Special is better than .44 Magnum for defense, and to a point they are correct, but only when comparing SPL to Magnum at full power. If they are saying the .44 Special gun is better than the .44 Mag gun, that's just silly. I, personally don't have any interest in .44 special handguns, I have .44 Magnums. I can shoot specials if I want, but the guy with a .44 SPL handgun can only shoot .44 SPL. I would choose the magnum gun, even in a snubnose, because of the ability to shoot magnums, when desired. Would I load it with magnums for defense? No.

I have pistols in .44 Mag, .44AMP, .45ACP, .45 Colt, & .45 WinMag. I know a few things about these rounds (and the .44 SPL as well), and I can tell you, from personal experience that when you are talking about the things usually considered important for a defensive pistol cartridge (a given minimum power level, and controllability for rapid follow up shots, the magnum rounds, loaded as magnum rounds, are a poor choice for most people.

Guns in magnum calibers, loaded with less than magnum level ammo can be as good as anything. (leaving aside the revolver vs auto round capacity debate).
 
So basically your the phrophet who has declared it insanity to use a cartridge labelled as magnum for self defense purposes?


Sucks to be the guy who owns a 9mm subcompact who NEEDS to use 9mm+p+ ammo just to get expansion....
 
This discussion essentially centers around the guy who either likes bigbore revolvers and has decided to carry them; or he only has a bigbore revolver and wants to use it for everything.

My ideal revolver for this would be a pre-lock S&W Mountain Gun in 45 Colt that had been cut for 45 ACP in moon clips. I think John Linebaugh has pretty well established that modern Smiths can stand a steady diet of beyond-SAAMI loads, tailored for that specific gun; and the versatility, variety, availability and effectiveness of the 45 ACP are well established.

Link corrected.
 
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. I think John Linebaugh has pretty well established that modern Smiths can stand a steady diet of beyond-SAAMI loads, tailored for that specific gun;
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While Linebaugh may have established that about S&W's (I don't know for sure), the link provided does not. The linked information is very specifically identified as ONLY pertaining to New Model Ruger Bisley and Blackhawks.

NOT S&W.

No doubt in my mind an N frame S&W will handle loads above SAAMI pressures for the .45 Colt, but how much above I have no idea, and the linked info doesn't say. I don't think that the .45 Colt S&Ws are quite as strong as new model Rugers.

As to having a .45 Colt cut for .45acp with moon clips, I guess it would work (the ACP is a sloppy fit in the Colt chamber, being .004 undersize at the case head and .007" at the case mouth), so with a clip to hold in in position it ought to fire. I just have to wonder, why bother?

I was talking to a friend the other day, one who has DA revolvers shooting .45ACP, and he detests moon clips. He loves half moon clips. His reasoning is that moon clips make too big a bulge in the pocket, the same as a speedloader. Half Moon Clips make a much less noticeable lump in his pocket, and he's fine with the slight difference in the speed of the reload using them.
Personal opinion, but for a lot of us, a valid point, I think.
 
While Linebaugh may have established that about S&W's (I don't know for sure), the link provided does not. The linked information is very specifically identified as ONLY pertaining to New Model Ruger Bisley and Blackhawks.

NOT S&W.
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My Bad... grabbed the wrong link. Thanks for pointing that out!Corrected.
 
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I don't mean to be beating a dead horse but velocity does not buy us power. Instead it buys us trajectory and range. - John Linebaugh
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Man, ain't that the truth!
Thanks for the refresher on who it was that made me see that.
 
(This from a guy who who has several 44s in both spl and magnum and has been shooting 44 for many years. )

I think full blown 44 Mags in a 4 inch gun are a bit much for self defense.
A lighter load in 44 Mag would be fine in my book. I see nothing wrong with it if you are confident you can handle the recoil OK. Shooting such a powerful piece is not for everyone. IOW its up to you to decide if you can handle it OK. If the answer is yes, then go for it.

Hey, if it comes down to really needing to shoot a bad guy, I would rather have a 44 in my hand than a 38.
 
44 AMP, when we start talking about reduced-power magnum loads or specials, I often start to wonder why people don't just break ranks and bump up to .45 Colt in revolvers or .45acp in semi.
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Not 44 AMP but;

I am invested in 44 magnum, I have a carbine and 2 handguns. The only one of those handguns suitable for EDC is my $1000 S&W Performance Center 629 chambered in 44 Magnum. I am not going to invest in another big bore when the 44 will do anything the 45 will do. Sure someone will come in and say but you missed the nuclear 45 Colt loads, yep I did.

I have a 1911 in 45 ACP. What I want out of the gun is more power than a 45 ACP brings to the table and less than a full power 44 magnum shooting heavy solids that will penetrate a moose. I do not plan on hunting with a snub nosed revolver, that is what the 7 1/2" SBH is for. I am pretty specific about what loads I like or do not like for SD based upon what I have seen or experienced and what those I trust have seen or experienced.

All along the loads I have been recommending are the so called 3/4 loads the Winchester Silvertip, The PMC Starfire both loads are well under maximum. Another good SD load it the 180 grain JHP. A load I am working on is a 185 grain LSWCHP @ 1200 fps from my rocket. None of those are expected to over penetrate so that help with that liability.

I know people say "OH DON'T USE A RELOAD!!!!!!! THEY WILL HANG YOU IN COURT!!!!!!!". Show me the law or at the very least case law of a legitimate self defense shooting where ammo was an issue. We all know about Harold Fish now so we don't need another reference to that case, and about powder tattooing to determine distance. Having been an LEO for over 30 years I never saw a case where the ammo was ever questioned beyond curiosity, because ammo does not indicate motive or opportunity.
 
Having been an LEO for over 30 years I never saw a case where the ammo was ever questioned beyond curiosity, because ammo does not indicate motive or opportunity.
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Finally, some sanity.

I never understood the argument against them. A Gold Dot bullet, going at the same velocity once it exits the muzzle is somehow "built to maim" while a bullet propelled by a factory charge is not. :confused:
 
SO whats more dangerous to be using if your afraid of shooting through that overly friendly rapist and hitting the dogwalker 30 yards down the road?
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The answer is: nothing will save you in civil court if you hit the dogwalker (or not...court can go either way). Don't mess up and it won't be a problem. The long story is try to know what's around the target and change the angle if you need to and have the opportunity. You may just have to take the shot--we cannot dictate the fight and stuff happens. Would you rather die on the street NOW or *possibly* be sued into poverty later? Why carry a gun if we let the fear of court paralyze us when action is necessary?

As others stated: tune the cartridge to the purpose. Factory self-defense ammo in 44 Magnum is available (and advertised as such) and there is no reason to avoid it for that purpose.
 
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