.40 S&W Pistol Recommendations

  • Thread starter Thread starter ASG
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For quite some time, I was eagerly avoiding .40 Glocks after gathering a pile of information about the infamous unsupported-chamber-and-thus-promt-to-kb! problem. Now, I'm simply greatful that I've decided to look deeper into the kb! issue. And what forced me to re-evaluate my initial cautiousness was a single range session with a Glock 23.

My only pistol NOT chambered in .40 is my Glock 26. I've tried shooting the following: Beretta, 1911, HK USPC, CZ, S&W 4043, etc., all in .40.

I also own Sigs (have three, all .40), a Kahr (mine is a great DAO MK40), and a Steyr M40 (yeah, I've got this one too, and it's a third model replaced by GSI :().

For over a year and half, I mostly carried Sig P229 and was confident in the way I could "double tap" it. I recently attended an advanced tactics course with it and faired rather well. On occasions, I also carried Sig P239 when an absolute concealment was a must.

Then I acquired a Glock 26 -- just wanted a niner. Well, I started to carry it almost exclusively because I could manage its trigger SO much better than a DA pull on any of my Sigs.

But still wanting a .40 of the Glock line, I gathered quite a few pieces of information about the kb!, trying to look at them unbiased and even analitically. The result was a NIB Glock 23.

Guess what, I've stopped carrying my Sigs altogether and completely switched to 23. It's a superb handgun. And please don't worry about kb! poison -- just don't shoot lead bullets through it, and preferably use either well-manufactured reloads or factory ammo. The rumors of Glocks in .40 suffering from kb! with factory ammo is bogus -- with that particular batch of ammo, practically any handgun would kb!

The bottom line -- it's Glock 23 ALL THE WAY. I carry nothing else.
 
Hate to cause controversy but here it goes. I have seen half a dozen Glock kB pictures and one kB in person.

I have also HEARD:

"My friend Elmer had a friend that heard from someone that his **** kB'd. It was oh so horrible..."

"Gee, hot ammo is to blame for all those Glock kB's. You know...it isn't the Glocks. Its all that hot ammo people are using"

"Blah, blah, blah, blah....kB....blah, blah...not Glocks fault...blah, blah...all brands kB....blah, blah, blah..."


I need someone to show me the money. Cut the bull**** stories. Show me kB pictures or stop the talk....Thanks ;-)
 
I'm a Steyr fan, but Glock is still one of my top 4 favorites.

Regarding Kb's --- As I've said in my article on glockmeister.com: If there was a true defect in the Glock design, then competitive manufacturers would have proved it years ago. Guess what? Nobody has proved a thing except that there are millions of Glocks out there, and some of them have kb'd. Right now I'm having trouble thinking of a pistol that has not Kb'd :)

I have to admit that I've never been a fan of the standard Glock unsupported chamber. That's why I've always used good aftermarket barrels. Glock happens to disagree with me :)



[This message has been edited by petej88 (edited October 07, 2000).]
 
Petej88,

I like your first point. Obviously there are a TON of Glocks out there and a few have kB'd. I myself think the kB's show that given the variability in ammo pressures out there, Glocks very very rarely can't handle a bad load. Therefore, buy, shoot, and be merry if you want a Glock....

On the other hand, I still haven't SEEN the fabled "every gun can go kaboom" evidence. Stories are a dime a dozen. I have actually seen ONE kaboom on a .357 magnum where the round didn't align correctly with the barrel. The gun was destroyed, but no damage to the shooter. So,

1) stupidity causes kB's in any weapon
2) hot loads can very rarely cause kB's in a few select weapons
3) "every gun can go kaboom" is a red herring

[This message has been edited by Curuzer (edited October 07, 2000).]
 
Curuzer,

First of all, are you seriously saying that the kb! phenomena is purely a Glock thing? I strongly feel you are; in which case, why don't you openly say so? True, in your second post, you admit that it's rare for Glock pistols, but you main point is still that if kb! does occur, it occurs in Glocks, however rarely.

Well, then I might say, quoting you, "cut the bull****" just as well. You aren't proving that catastrophic failures happen with Glocks only -- again, that's what you're claiming, right? In fact, you're not helping to bring your own point across because in your second post you mention a revolver kb!-ing. So, in the end, you have seen a handgun OTHER than Glock kb-ed!

Second, I don't run around ranges with a photocamera, and if you don't like reading posts that say something like "a friend of mine had a kb! with his newly purchased Sig", well then don't. However, I'll still say that I personally know a person who kb!-ed his HK USP and another one who had the same thing with a Kimber. You don't want to trust me? Couldn't be finer with me.

Curuzer, just like you saw only one firearm blown up, most of us here also saw just one or two, if any. The rest of the info comes from people around the community -- granted, some of them are purely BS, but I simply happen to know a huge bunch I really trust.

Of course, by reading a few posts in a single thread, you won't find your "evidence". But if you do your home work and gather some more info, you'll realize that anything that has explosions occurring inside of it generating extremely high pressure and temperatures can and, occasionally, will kb! given just the right push in that direction. And, again, this push can be either overcharged round, barrel fouling, not-full-battery position, badly unsupported chamber, etc.

The best.

Emin

[This message has been edited by Emin (edited October 07, 2000).]
 
All right now we're talking...

Emin,

Great post. You actually had a friend whose HK kB'd, I believe you. Did you see it? If you didn't, it doesn't help me much 'cause I want to know what YOU thought about it. I trust YOU...just like the law - what you HEARD is hearsay, what you SAW is evidence. I SAW pictures of Glock kB's and an actual kB with my own eyes.

I don't mean to imply I've seen it all or that Glocks are the only ones that kB...I am new to this whole thing. I am sure I will see more kB's and, God willing, hopefully will not experience them myself. There are so many great people on this board with great experiences...things they have seen and done. Bring on the FACTS...

BTW, to get back to the thread...I have an Sig P239 and an HK USPc40 which I have been shooting weekly for a month now. No hiccups whatsoever. I love these two guns. No Glocks yet, although I have a premonition they are in my future (in 9mm of course). I am not a Glock hater...just an eternal cynic and skeptic.

PS. Emin, I like your collection :-) Maybe if I haven't upset you too much you will bequeath them to me?

[This message has been edited by Curuzer (edited October 07, 2000).]
 
Curuzer,

I, in turn, hoped I wasn't a bit impolite in my post. If I was, I'm sorry.

In any case, my quest for the best (the best for ME, not necessarily "absolutely the best") .40 goes back when after reading and hearing so much about Glock 23, I decided to give it a try. I think there's a post somewhere on this forum describing my personal experience with the gun.

That particular 23 was a beaten-up rent firearm on one of a local ranges. I liked the way it shot despite snappy recoil and its rectangular grip that cut into my palm making it unpleasantly sore. My shots placement, however, was good enough to like the gun to the point of seriously thinking of acquiring one for defensive carry.

At that time, I already had my Sigs 229 and 239, both in .40 -- I mostly carried the latter for its size. The decision to go with the .40 caliber came from a serious advice of my firearm trainer -- classes I attended were part of a program that actively promoted .40, mostly for a combination of capacity, power, and manageability factors.

So, just when I started price-shopping for a 23, the kb! thingy started to raise its ugly head on this forum. At some point, I was so glad I didn't actually buy the gun just yet for I thought that after reading all this horror, I'd be simply affraid to shoot it!

Well, you know the rest. I spoke to quite a few very knowledgeble gunsmiths and pistol afficionados about this issue and heard "don't shoot reloads, don't shoot lead, don't shoot factory reloads that are very well known to be POS, and your chances of kb! with a .40 Glock will be the same as with any other brand". And I bought 23. Couldn't be happier with it...

Curuzer, regarding the HK -- that guy kept the barrel which was undamaged and the only part I really saw. I didn't know what he'd done with the rest of the gun but suspected that at that time he was communicating with HK about a possibility of replacement. The USPc40 is a fantastic firearm, btw.

Is your 239 in 9 mm or just like mine, in .40? Does yours have Hogue grips installed? I found it an absolute must with mine.

Regards,

Emin
 
Emin,

I find you to be passionate about Glocks, not impolite. I equally apologize for inciting your passion...it makes me want a Glock even more when someone can get "fightin' mad" about their Glock.

My p239 is indeed a 40S&W with Hogues and Siglite (Trijicon) Nite Sights. My HK has Hogue Handall grips. They are both great guns with totally different feel. The Sig comes straight back at me when I fire (very little muzzle flip in my hands), which makes it very easy to control, and it feels so tight and compact, it just begs to be carried. Unfortunately I'm at 16 days and counting up to the 60 days it takes for the Texas DPS to send out my CHL.

The HK has a little more muzzle flip (very controlable), but it has mean looks and the two-tone (pimp?) look says "do you want a piece of me, punk...well...do you?"

I am getting 9mm barrels for both of them to lower my practice expenses and help my wife enjoy them both more. I walked around the house today carrying Mexican style...she looked at me like I was crazy. Life is good!
 
1. Ruger P-944T .40S&W. Smoother action, lighter trigger, and affordable priced.

2. Steyr M-40 or S-40. Excellent firearm, better than the Glock, but a bit steep in price, but it is worth the money.

3. Or wait for the Ruger synthetic .40S&W, you may have to wait a while tho.

Got the cash, get the Steyr. Want something affordable get the Ruger P-944T.


------------------
"They may kill me, but there will always be more like me". -EDA

They told me,"throw down your guns, return to the earth...HAH! time enough for the earth in the grave". -EDA

"Giving up is not in my vocabulary". -EDA

"Do not fear the governments, that fears you". -EDA
 
Just sold my Sig Pro 2340. Nice gun, but I didn't like the DA/SA trigger. Just purchased, but have not received, a much maligned gun, the H&K P7M10. I love the P7M8 and have large hands. Love the safety and the trigger. Fixed barrel makes for accuracy beyond my abilities. I have had two Glocks and like them. Great value! I feel more comfortable with the P7 because of the safety mechanism. I know that the Glock won't go off without pulling the trigger, but the P7 series won't go off even when I pull the trigger. EHH, I don't think that I put that quite right.
 
Gentlemen, I hate to bust in with my ignorance, but I am very new to the forum. The term "kb" clearly refers to a catastrophic failure of some type. Alas, I have never heard of it before. What exactly does it mean (or come from)? Thank you for your patience.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ED CHAVEZ:
Steyr M-40 or S-40. Excellent firearm, better than the Glock, but a bit steep in price, but it is worth the money[/quote]

Can you please post about the test you've conducted? I bet it's an extensive one too to calmly claim something like that. Any references?

Don't bother, you don't have any -- you simply like Steyr better. Purely personally.

I have both, in the same caliber. While my Glock has been 100% reliable, the Steyr sickened me with a never-ending list of problems. The fit, finish, and overall quality of the two can't be even closely compared. The only thing about Steyr I truly like is its sights and the low bore axis, period.

Ed, please don't take it as a flame; it's just this thread's started as a question from a relatively new member about a gun in .40. I simply don't want for him to be disinformed by such "naked" statements. You really should have said "I like Steyr more than Glock" or "For me, it's a better firearm". I'm simply trying to be unbiased.

Unless, of course, you HAVE indeed had an access to some thorough test we're not aware off...

Regards.
 
USP40 full-size or compact.

Versatile; tough; accurate; safe; reliable; looks good; feels good; easy to clean; easy to point; a pussycat to shoot; manual safety (there if you want it); carry it: DA/SA ala Sig, DA/SA ala Ruger, cocked and locked ala 1911, DA/SA with a manual safety off or on, your choice, all on the same gun avaiable at a whim; it's an H&K :); 13rnd drop-free mags are the 'gift that keeps on giving'; can be set up right-hand or left-hand or ambi- in any of 9 different layouts by any competent gunsmith; ambi- mag release; 'holds it's value' in the worst case scenario; trigger guard big enough for winter gloves on the trigger finger.

This weapon will fire a round with a bullet lodged in the barrel and come back asking for seconds. Mine has eaten thousands of rounds of +P and just gets better with age.

It is most bad-ass, IMHO. :D

- gabe
 
H&K USP 40. Reliable straight from the box. Fully supported chamber. Accurate. I carry one as a duty pistol (replaced a S&W 4566 with it)and have no complaints whatever. When I decide to go for a polymer framed .40, I checked out the H&K, the various Glocks, and the Sigma. The USP fit my hand the best, had the nicest trigger, and shot the smallest groups at the rental range. Higher capacity magazines are available on the civilian market, they are expensive. The three ten rounders I bought with the gun are adequate for range use.
 
ASG,
Have shot no other pistol in .40 S&W other than the one I own so I can't give you any comps, but I sure do enjoy shooting my Browning Hi-Power Practical. It points spot on for me, is balanced in my hand, the safety is ambi, I'm a south paw, is quick to recover my POA, and looks like a 1911 that lost a few pounds and is dressed up for a night out.
When weather permits a coat I carry it C1 in a Galco Summer IWB. Its a full size pistol so a good strong belt is a must. Hips would be a good idea, too. Maybe I should lose a pound or two?
Had some work done on it by a very skilled and pleasant young pistolsmith, located here in the Puget Sound area name of Mike O'Hara(ocg1911@aol.com)
He replaced the rubber wrap around grips with some Spiegal rosewood checkered at 30 lpi. Polished the feed ramp, crowned & lapped the barrel, tightened up the sear/trigger tolerances for a crisper take-up (damn the magazine safety, er, disconnect) and a bit lighter pull, de-burred the slide and cut in, absolutely beautifully, adjustable MMC rear and an MMC blade sight with Triji inserts.
Did I have to do it to make it a sweet shoting pistol - absolutely not! But like a jeep or a Harley they beg to be customized, wouldn't you agree?
Best of luck in your quest.

"Those who would purchase security with their liberty deserve neither." B. Franklin

"The 2nd Amendment; it ain't about duck huntin'!" Bumper sticker
 
As the original poster can see, various gun owners have various opinions and sometimes come up with contradictory conclusions.

For example, I love the Steyr and have patiently worked through the early teething issues. And I do not fault anyone for getting upset during this timeframe. By the way, Steyr's are selling for an average of $499 now.

Other pistols I've owned and fired in .40 that I really like are:
USP .40
P229
sigpro
Glock
Beretta

One of the most important aspects of a pistol is the trigger style.
1. Steyr and Glock have a short reset action trigger that is my favorite.
2. Beretta and Sig both are typical da/sa style pistols, although the Beretta also has a manual safety.
3. USP is very flexible. It can be da/sa, or it can be carried safely as a straight single action pistol.

In .40, the other thing I like is a well supported chamber. In this sense, my favorite guns are the Steyr, USP, and the SIG's. And the Glock is OK when I use a good aftermarket barrel -- this is my opinion based on monitoring the effects of fired brass from all of these pistols. As a reloader, a well supported chamber is critical. As a factory ammo shooter, a well supported chamber adds a little extra security, even for brand new ammo.

To tell you the truth, I can fire all of the above pistols really well, once I tune in with the trigger style.

Good luck in your decision.

------------------
My Site: http://home.earthlink.net/~petej55
Steyr Talk Forum, etc: http://www.unitedforums.com/firearmsforums.htm
 
I have conducted extensive test with different firearms. You name it, I shot-it, disassemble them and done extensive research and reading on firearms. I am a member of American Gunsmithing Association and many other associations and clubs, I have seen firearms inside and out. The Steyrs have greatly improved more than the Glocks in these couple of months. I have done test with different firearms, like shot +1000rds through one gun in a weeks time, shot different ammo(+P ammo and ect.,) and tried aftermarket accessories, tried rapid fire, tried durability test, tested the toughness of parts and barrel, tested and checked barrel wear and foul-up, I could continue on, on, and on.

So my last words are, I have tested the Glocks Vs. the Steyrs. And the Steyrs are better-off than the Glocks due to that the Steyrs improved everything Glock could not. NUFF SAID. Later.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Emin:
Can you please post about the test you've conducted? I bet it's an extensive one too to calmly claim something like that. Any references?

Don't bother, you don't have any -- you simply like Steyr better. Purely personally.

I have both, in the same caliber. While my Glock has been 100% reliable, the Steyr sickened me with a never-ending list of problems. The fit, finish, and overall quality of the two can't be even closely compared. The only thing about Steyr I truly like is its sights and the low bore axis, period.

Ed, please don't take it as a flame; it's just this thread's started as a question from a relatively new member about a gun in .40. I simply don't want for him to be disinformed by such "naked" statements. You really should have said "I like Steyr more than Glock" or "For me, it's a better firearm". I'm simply trying to be unbiased.

Unless, of course, you HAVE indeed had an access to some thorough test we're not aware off...

Regards.

[/quote]



------------------
"They may kill me, but there will always be more like me". -EDA

They told me,"throw down your guns, return to the earth...HAH! time enough for the earth in the grave". -EDA

"Giving up is not in my vocabulary". -EDA

"Do not fear the governments, that fears you". -EDA
 
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