.380 Opinions?
- Thread starter cc1965
- Start date
HighValleyRanch
New member
Jar, there is an easy way to check if your trigger scale is accurate. A one gallon jug of water weight approximately 8.5 pounds. Hook up a coat hanger to the jug and use your trigger scale to pick it up. If it reads 8.5 pounds or close, then your scale is correct.
Funny though how all the trigger pulls you list are light across the board, not just the LCP. 4 pounds for any double action hammer fired pull is incredibly light!
Funny though how all the trigger pulls you list are light across the board, not just the LCP. 4 pounds for any double action hammer fired pull is incredibly light!
It's worth checking. But as I have said repeatedly the main issue is not trigger weight and all the other items mentioned would remain.
Even if the gauge is off the same gauge was used for all the samples. The ratios and relative trigger pulls should remain the same with the LCP being the lightest of the samples regardless of the absolute reading.
AbE: Checked the scale against known weights of my S&W 469 and 5906.
The scale shows the 469 at just over 1 pound 10 ounces and the 5906 at 2 pounds 6 ounces. Those are very close to the published weights for the two models. Also checked against the Star UltraStar so pretty sure the gauge is not too far off.
Even if the gauge is off the same gauge was used for all the samples. The ratios and relative trigger pulls should remain the same with the LCP being the lightest of the samples regardless of the absolute reading.
AbE: Checked the scale against known weights of my S&W 469 and 5906.
The scale shows the 469 at just over 1 pound 10 ounces and the 5906 at 2 pounds 6 ounces. Those are very close to the published weights for the two models. Also checked against the Star UltraStar so pretty sure the gauge is not too far off.
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Correct, but the order would remain the same.
Also checked the gauge and it seems pretty much dead on. See above.
jar said:
The nominal SA trigger weight on a 5906 is around 5-6 pounds -and often heavier- as reflected in multiple reviews (1, 2, 3, 4) spanning more than a decade.
The trigger weights you give for standard S&W models are even less than the trigger weight of the special 3566 competition model tuned by the S&W Performance Center.
MoArk Willy
New member
That chart is way out of whack. Time to get a new measuring device.
Cheapshooter
New member
From YOUR own chart!
Smith & Wesson 5906 only D/A measured 6 pounds 2 ounces
Smith & Wesson 469 only D/A measured 7 pounds 13 ounces.
1 gallon water 8 pounds 8 ounces
Beginning to look like some serious "operator error, or a very faulty tool!
But despite all the obvious trigger pull weight errors, slide hold open, and second strike aren't even worth mentioning.
Slide hold open, in a self defense pocket gun for civilian use. For what. You're not going to be getting into an extended gun battle. If you do with any pocket pistol chances are you will be gone before you even need a reload. Pure Mall Ninja stuff.
Second strike, again pure Mall Ninja. Unless you handload with the same diligence as you are using that trigger pull guage, when's the last time you had a round fail to fire on the first try?
Let's see, from my experience excluding rimfire.
My handloads....never
Various brands of range ammo......never
Quality self defense ammo......never
Cheapshooter
New member
That on needed a slide lock on on last round!
Regarding whether or not the slide holdback works, and how unimportant that hold back is, I can't believe that people are saying that it's unimportant.
There is nothing more important than planning for trouble. A .380 is a gun created for and reserved for shooting at bad guys. That requires an absolute minimum of distraction. Having to rack a slide as part of putting in a new magazine is a distraction. It also creates delays. It might be forgotten even.
Almost every combat training course includes working with only one hand. It's important to learn how to work a gun with only a single hand. How will you work the slide on the LCP if there aren't any surfaces handy that you can hook that slide on? How many people could actually do that?
You can't rack a slide with your teeth. If I am caught with my slide locked shut and it's one of the days when my fingers just don't work properly, I am going to die./
Just offhand, doesn't pretty much every semiautomatic weapon use a hold open device? If it's so important that nearly every semiautomatic pistol sold has one, is it really logical to say that it is unimportant to have one in a pistol intended for nothing at all but combat use?
There is nothing more important than planning for trouble. A .380 is a gun created for and reserved for shooting at bad guys. That requires an absolute minimum of distraction. Having to rack a slide as part of putting in a new magazine is a distraction. It also creates delays. It might be forgotten even.
Almost every combat training course includes working with only one hand. It's important to learn how to work a gun with only a single hand. How will you work the slide on the LCP if there aren't any surfaces handy that you can hook that slide on? How many people could actually do that?
You can't rack a slide with your teeth. If I am caught with my slide locked shut and it's one of the days when my fingers just don't work properly, I am going to die./
Just offhand, doesn't pretty much every semiautomatic weapon use a hold open device? If it's so important that nearly every semiautomatic pistol sold has one, is it really logical to say that it is unimportant to have one in a pistol intended for nothing at all but combat use?
Cheapshooter
New member
When considering the LCP, and other pocket pistols the answer is yes.
Their intended "combat" use is as a up close, few feet away belly gun to ward off an attack.
To say an LCP is a "combat" weapon is like saying a Prius is a NASCAR racer. If the type of "combat" these small weapons are intended for isn't over with two or three rounds, let alone a full mag, you're done. And not reloading anything anyway.
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With the LCP (or any other semi-auto) the user can train to count the rounds fired, and change mags while there's still a live round in the chamber. This is faster than relying on slide to lock open as an indicator because you don't have to release the slide since the last round is in battery when the fresh mag is installed.
Cosmodragoon
New member
briandg, issues with having to rack the slide is why people shouldn't carry on an open chamber. As I discussed earlier, the little .380 guns are valuable because they are tiny. They are about as small as you can go within what some of us would consider reasonable for self-defense. So some of us will carry them when we can't carry something larger. In those cases, will we also have room for a spare mag? How many of us will bother carrying the spare mag?
Yeah, some people carry them as their primary EDC because they are convenient. How many of those people will be carrying a spare mag?
Locking back matters if you are carrying a spare magazine and you end up having to change magazines in a defensive encounter. On a hot day, I've usually got six rounds and a prayer.
Yeah, some people carry them as their primary EDC because they are convenient. How many of those people will be carrying a spare mag?
Locking back matters if you are carrying a spare magazine and you end up having to change magazines in a defensive encounter. On a hot day, I've usually got six rounds and a prayer.
Cosmo,
Agreed, but I would never rely upon a one shot stop unless I absolutely had no other choice.
Agreed, but note my comments below.
Agreed but it usually means IWB for me.
IWB with holster but if I'm noticing a sketchy situation I will carry in my hand while placed in a jacket pocket or in my hand underneath my outermost garment.
Agreed, but I would never rely upon a one shot stop unless I absolutely had no other choice.
Agreed, but note my comments below.
Agreed but it usually means IWB for me.
IWB with holster but if I'm noticing a sketchy situation I will carry in my hand while placed in a jacket pocket or in my hand underneath my outermost garment.
When I carry, it is usually a 380 pocket pistol(rm380). I don't carry it in my pocket because I have other things in my pockets(I don't carry a purse, fanny pack, satchel, back pack, etc...). My pistol does lock back on empty, and I'm glad it does. At the range, I do count rounds, but in a stressful situation(firing my carry piece for defense) I don't think I'll be able to monitor my rounds fired, or at least, I'm not counting on it(pun by accident). I do not carry an extra mag. Last round hold open at least alerts me of empty.
I'm not saying these choices are correct for anyone but myself, but this is how I do it.
I'm not saying these choices are correct for anyone but myself, but this is how I do it.