Bill DeShivs
New member
You don't even need "+P" ammunition.
.38 Special vs. .357 Magnum for Home Defense
- Thread starter Model12Win
- Start date
Lost Sheep
New member
Posts 12, 15, 25 (and others, I am sure, but four pages was too much to drag through)
(edited to add: Doc (post 80, I have to acknowledge you beat me to it, mostly)
T. O'Heir in post 12 hit it directly, as zncwarrior in post 15 noted. Thanks, you two.
So, my contribution to the thread is a suggestion to go to a range where they will let you turn the lights off (or an outdoor range at night) and take both guns with the assortment of ammunition you might think of using in each and test. (Remember that 38 Special can be used in the GP100 if you like the extra weight of the gun for recoil reduction or for any other reason.)
How is muzzle flash"
How are followup shots?
How is the noise level?
Weapon retention in a struggle: In my opinion, the difference between 4" and 6" for this purpose is very small. The 6" has more for an adversary to grab, but 2" (to 4" length) is not that much less.
Good luck.
Lost Sheep
(edited to add: Doc (post 80, I have to acknowledge you beat me to it, mostly)
T. O'Heir in post 12 hit it directly, as zncwarrior in post 15 noted. Thanks, you two.
So, my contribution to the thread is a suggestion to go to a range where they will let you turn the lights off (or an outdoor range at night) and take both guns with the assortment of ammunition you might think of using in each and test. (Remember that 38 Special can be used in the GP100 if you like the extra weight of the gun for recoil reduction or for any other reason.)
How is muzzle flash"
How are followup shots?
How is the noise level?
Weapon retention in a struggle: In my opinion, the difference between 4" and 6" for this purpose is very small. The 6" has more for an adversary to grab, but 2" (to 4" length) is not that much less.
Good luck.
Lost Sheep
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38+p
I agree with Dirty_Harry. My HD M66 revolvers are loaded with 38+p Nyclads. Follow-up shots are easier. Less blinding blast in the semi-darkness for those follow-up shots. And, last but not least, permanent hearing might be spared. Furthermore, if I'm at work and my wife is pressed into that "unfortunate moment", 38+p will be much easier for her to handle.
I agree with Dirty_Harry. My HD M66 revolvers are loaded with 38+p Nyclads. Follow-up shots are easier. Less blinding blast in the semi-darkness for those follow-up shots. And, last but not least, permanent hearing might be spared. Furthermore, if I'm at work and my wife is pressed into that "unfortunate moment", 38+p will be much easier for her to handle.
diggler1833
New member
My humble thoughts are:
In my nightstand resides an M&P40. I own both .38s and .357s, but much prefer the semi-auto and capacity for when my life is on the line.
Both calibers are inferior to a rifle or shotgun, so I will set that aside.
I find the .38 Special to be tremendously easier to control firing quickly. I also second what many have said about concussion and muzzle flash, and that the .38 is much less harsh and therefore better for firing indoors if the guns are identical. I haven't personally seen a lot of difference firing in an indoor range with a 6" .357 and a 2" .38 though.
However, the .357 Magnum is simply a vastly superior-performing round terminally speaking. It has the energy to push through thick bone much easier if the right bullet is used. It will penetrate deeper, and disrupt more tissue.
Both have a pretty limited capacity before reloading. We all like to think that our shots are going to be perfect, but statistically speaking, cops miss ~70% of the time. ASSuming that your shots are all going to hit their mark is something for a fool. However, if you can shoot one caliber/gun better than the other, then that is a good starting point for basing your decision. Both calibers have their plusses and minuses, and it is up to the individual to pick which is better for their particular situation.
In my nightstand resides an M&P40. I own both .38s and .357s, but much prefer the semi-auto and capacity for when my life is on the line.
Both calibers are inferior to a rifle or shotgun, so I will set that aside.
I find the .38 Special to be tremendously easier to control firing quickly. I also second what many have said about concussion and muzzle flash, and that the .38 is much less harsh and therefore better for firing indoors if the guns are identical. I haven't personally seen a lot of difference firing in an indoor range with a 6" .357 and a 2" .38 though.
However, the .357 Magnum is simply a vastly superior-performing round terminally speaking. It has the energy to push through thick bone much easier if the right bullet is used. It will penetrate deeper, and disrupt more tissue.
Both have a pretty limited capacity before reloading. We all like to think that our shots are going to be perfect, but statistically speaking, cops miss ~70% of the time. ASSuming that your shots are all going to hit their mark is something for a fool. However, if you can shoot one caliber/gun better than the other, then that is a good starting point for basing your decision. Both calibers have their plusses and minuses, and it is up to the individual to pick which is better for their particular situation.
OldMarksman
Staff
A .357 indoors?
Not for me.
Not for me.
2damnold4this
New member
You may be confusing power with effectiveness. For me, the .38 is more effective than the .357 because I can get good, quick hits with it in a airweight and I can't with a .357 in a light weight snubby. The .357 does have more power but for me it is less effective. If I need more power than the .38 or 9mm, I'll go to some long gun that is easier to hit with, has a higher capacity and more power.
effective=successful in producing a desired or intended result.
My rule number 3 (see sig line) is that a hole in the right place is better than a hole in the wrong place. So, shoot the "better" caliber if you can shoot it accurately. In some instances and for some people, the .357 is "better" but the .38 spl may be "better" for some people and under some circumstances.
Like others, I have chosen .38 spl +P inside the home because of noise and muzzle flash. Just choose a good defense round. I like Speer Gold Dots .38 spl +P in either the 125 gr. or 158 gr. load. I also like the FBI load, Remington LSWCHP 158 gr. +P. The revolver is for quick access in the middle of the night.
Like others, I have chosen .38 spl +P inside the home because of noise and muzzle flash. Just choose a good defense round. I like Speer Gold Dots .38 spl +P in either the 125 gr. or 158 gr. load. I also like the FBI load, Remington LSWCHP 158 gr. +P. The revolver is for quick access in the middle of the night.
Yet you seem to confuse effectiveness with practicality. I think we know that effective in the context of guns would refer to the wounding and take down ability of the gun and cartridge combination. "Practical" would address your muzzle flip, blinding flash, noise level, and down range casualties.
2damnold4this
New member
Nope. Effective=successful in producing a desired or intended result. When it comes to guns, effectiveness would include everything that goes toward producing the desired result. That includes wounding ability, capacity, flash, muzzle flip, and etc. If a cartridge is more shootable for me, it may be more effective at self defense even if it doesn't have the wounding power that another cartridge might
Practicality would include things such as cost, portability and so on.
Cosmodragoon
New member
Let's answer two questions:
1. Exactly how much better is .357 than .38 at stopping the kinds of threats you might face inside your own home?
2. Exactly how much worse will you or your family be having fired however many shots of .357 magnum indoors with no hearing protection?
Compare your two answers. Adjust for proficiency. Personally, I trust the ol' .38 for bedroom surprises. The magnums come out in the woods or on the range.
1. Exactly how much better is .357 than .38 at stopping the kinds of threats you might face inside your own home?
2. Exactly how much worse will you or your family be having fired however many shots of .357 magnum indoors with no hearing protection?
Compare your two answers. Adjust for proficiency. Personally, I trust the ol' .38 for bedroom surprises. The magnums come out in the woods or on the range.
Mastrogiacomo
New member
I'd admit, I much prefer to shoot .38s out of my magnums. The guns are heavy enough to tame the recoil and I'm much more able to hit my targets. If in the home, a hit with the .38 is going to be more effective than a miss with the .357....
Laura
Laura
How does hearing protection even matter when your life is on the line? I've shot 338's, 270's, 30-06's without hearing protection while hunting and never remember having my ears ring. Now anything bigger than a CB cap in a 22 pistol while just plinking will make them ring every time. The stress involved while under pressure does some strange things, blocking out noise and recoil are some of them. Not to say that the recoil and noise are not present, just how you deal with them. We've all heard story's of superhuman feats of strength in life or death situations.
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I like the 38spl just fine...I have a Model 15-3, and feel it is one of the best combat handguns ever...certainly, a Masterpiece.
However, when I load up a revolver for HD, I use a 3" GP100...and it is loaded with 357magnum, either Hornady 125gn FTX or 158gn XTP.
I just don't get all this talk about how "hard" it is to handle the recoil of the 357mag. Sure, maybe in an ultralight snub. But even the 3" SP101 I used to own was easy to shoot using magnum ammo. In my GP, no problem at all. At close range, it is fast and easy to put rounds on target. And, the flat trajectory of the 357 mag makes hitting at longer range easy for me.
The flash/bang effect? Well, it works both ways. When I drop the hammer on a 357mag, I know what's coming. The bad guy doesn't, and I like that it is a nasty surprise for him.
My dad survived combat in Europe during WWII, shooting everything form the 37mm cannon on his armored car, 50cal Brownings, and every other US small arm as well as German MG's he trained other units on...his hearing seemed pretty good in his 80's. I think I could survive a few 357's fired in extremis.
But I would have no problem relying on a good 38spl for SD.
However, when I load up a revolver for HD, I use a 3" GP100...and it is loaded with 357magnum, either Hornady 125gn FTX or 158gn XTP.
I just don't get all this talk about how "hard" it is to handle the recoil of the 357mag. Sure, maybe in an ultralight snub. But even the 3" SP101 I used to own was easy to shoot using magnum ammo. In my GP, no problem at all. At close range, it is fast and easy to put rounds on target. And, the flat trajectory of the 357 mag makes hitting at longer range easy for me.
The flash/bang effect? Well, it works both ways. When I drop the hammer on a 357mag, I know what's coming. The bad guy doesn't, and I like that it is a nasty surprise for him.
My dad survived combat in Europe during WWII, shooting everything form the 37mm cannon on his armored car, 50cal Brownings, and every other US small arm as well as German MG's he trained other units on...his hearing seemed pretty good in his 80's. I think I could survive a few 357's fired in extremis.
But I would have no problem relying on a good 38spl for SD.
The flash/bang concerns people have with .357 is not so much about long term hearing loss, as it is about being temporarily blinded and having your hearing go numb during a situation in which you are counting on your hearing to pick up the slack of your poor vison in dim light which has just been further diminished by a big flash of light. In most cases your first shot, whther it hits anything or not, will send them into flight, and you can afford being momentarily blind and deaf for the next 30 seconds. Maybe not.
Recoil is not about whether it's too much to manage, or how much you can handle, but how far its going to take you off target before you fire the next shot. I can shoot big magnums all day, but when it comes to dumping 6 shots on a target in 6 seconds, you can't possibly do as well with your arms whipping around in the air.
Get inside an enclosure like a shed or a room in a barn in dim light or darkness, pick up your weapon and fire a round, and then reconsider your needs. Can you operate your weapon in the dark? How badlly does it blind/deafen you? Are there better choices?
Recoil is not about whether it's too much to manage, or how much you can handle, but how far its going to take you off target before you fire the next shot. I can shoot big magnums all day, but when it comes to dumping 6 shots on a target in 6 seconds, you can't possibly do as well with your arms whipping around in the air.
Get inside an enclosure like a shed or a room in a barn in dim light or darkness, pick up your weapon and fire a round, and then reconsider your needs. Can you operate your weapon in the dark? How badlly does it blind/deafen you? Are there better choices?
micromontenegro
New member
We're so worried about flash and report that it would make sense to ask the bad guys to only shoot back with Aguila Colibris. 
'Cause- correct me if I'm wrong- flash and report is worse from the receiving end.
'Cause- correct me if I'm wrong- flash and report is worse from the receiving end.