.38 Special vs. .357 Magnum for Home Defense

Which would you choose and why?

  • .38 Special

    Votes: 105 67.3%

  • .357 Magnum

    Votes: 51 32.7%
  • Total voters
    156
Real Gun, maybe not realistic, but plug in whatever values you want, if you think it might be more than one.

In the real world, in extreme circumstances, there are a lot more misses than hits, usually fueled by the urge to get the shot off before the bad guy, (probably feuled by western movies). When if the guy doesn't go down we keep pulling the trigger, never taking the time to hesitate and stabilize our aim. I remember reading some years ago about police encounter where the officer and the suspect emptied their revolvers at each other from 10' and neither made any hits.

Everyone could learn a lot by seeing how fast they can put a second shot or even a 3rd on the target. I mentioned 6 because thats how I practice.
 
Posted by Real Gun[(Referring to when it comes to dumping 6 shots on a target in 6 seconds)]That's not real world shooting, is it?
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Very likely not.

What would lead anyone to expect that a defender would be afforded six seconds in a violent encounter?

Why would anyone choose to fire so slowly?
 
My hand doesn't "fly around" when I shoot 357 mag, and I certainly don't consider it "one of the big magnums".
I use a high hand hold on my GP100, which is equipped with the compact Lett grips. Recoil is no issue whatsoever.
The better magnum loads use flash suppressed powder...muzzle flash is not so great as some have stated. It sure isn't like the Vietnam bringback Tokarev pistol I fired in a dark range using Chinese military ball ammo, which made bright white soccer ball sized flashes...which still didn't prevent me from hitting the target easily and repeatedly.
 
Posted by amd6547: My hand doesn't "fly around" when I shoot 357 mag...
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The gun does jump some, however. Right?

...and I certainly don't consider it "one of the big magnums".
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Nor do I.

I use a high hand hold on my GP100, which is equipped with the compact Lett grips.
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The GP100 should be a lot more controllable than most small, light-weight revolvers with heavy loads.

Recoil is no issue whatsoever.
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I do not want to seem to challenge your statement, but for clarification, how fast you can score four hits on a moving target with combat accuracy? One second? Two?

I haven't tried shooting a GP-100 rapidly, and because I do not carry it for self defense, I haven't tried that with my 686+, either. I should.

I do know that too much oomph in an alloy or polymer snubby can make rapid controlled fire almost impossible, and I really wouldn't want to try it with a Combat Magnum.

But I would have no problem relying on a good 38spl for SD.
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That's my choice for revolvers, and your Combat Masterpiece was good enough of the Air Force.

In fact, it was said that my inability to find one decades ago resulted from DoD orders.
 
I'll just reiterate. A .357 doesn't need to be loaded to full boar. In fact, you could design loads with equal performance to .38SPL +P with less muzzle flash/blast, with a good powder selection, in the .357's case.
That's why I chose it.

It's a bigger case designed to handle higher pressures, but that doesn't mean you need to run 800ft-lb loads in it 100% of the time

Only full powered loads in .357 have more recoil and flash than .38spl. You could easily mimic .38 loads in the .357 and because you have a bigger case that can handle higher peak pressures, you have a bit more 'wiggle room' with different powders compared to the .38spl case.


Through the use of our non-canister, flash suppressed powder, the tactical problem of blinding muzzle flash is now greatly reduced with Buffalo Bore's new Tactical Short Barrel loads!
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https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=105
 
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Yes, of course, JD. The issues regarding recoil and controllability are a function of both the ammo and the gun.

I have .38 loads in my revolvers.

According to Elmer, the factory loads of the day bothered seasoned shooters when fired in the 3 1/2 inch Registered Magnum.

I fired an N-frame Smith with hot magnum loads, and I do not remember being concerned, but in those days I knew nothing about shooting fast.

On the other hand, my 642 is a handful with anything hootre than wadcutters--and it's bad enough with those.

My wife just bought a Ruger SP 101, 3 ". We haven't fired it yet. but I'm sure we'll prefer it to the 642.
 
I use Buffalo Bore 158gr 38+P LSWCHP. My revolver is a S&W model 10 4inch. This combination is quite adequate for home defense.

 
357 Magnum. Handguns are weak enough as it is; max out those six to eight shots. Since it's for "home defense", keep a set of electronic hearing protection next to the gun and speed loaders.
 
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Posted by Real Gun[(Referring to when it comes to dumping 6 shots on a target in 6 seconds)]That's not real world shooting, is it?

Very likely not.

What would lead anyone to expect that a defender would be afforded six seconds in a violent encounter?

Why would anyone choose to fire so slowly?
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Could you rephrase that, so it's useful?
 
Posted by Real Gun: Could you rephrase that, so it's useful?

What would lead anyone to expect that a defender would be afforded six seconds in a violent encounter?

Why would anyone choose to fire so slowly?
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  1. If one is faced with an imminent threat of death or serious injury by someone with the ability and opprtunity to do harm, and is forced to use deadly force fot self defense, it is likely that the encounter will be over, one way or the other, in far fewer than six seconds.
  2. A person defending himself or herself with a firearm should be firing at a rate far greater than one shot per second.

Consider an attacker--a man wit average physical capabilities--with a hidden edged weapon coming around the end of a pickup tuck toward you. By the time you realize that your are in danger, he is 20 feet away. By the time you have drawn and fired once (say, 1 1/2 seconds), he has closed the distance, but you have moved to the side.

The chance that that one shot will stop him is very low indeed--you will fire additional shots very quickly (at a rate of, say three or four shots per second), while still moving.

It will surely be over in less than six seconds.

Consider also that if you did not draw and fire in time, and that if he slashed you and for some reason kept going, he might be 60 feet behind you at the six second mark. Most unlikely, but that should illustrate the point.

Watch Mark Seeklander demonstrate the concept, and listen to Marty Hayes describing the elements of justification, in this video.

Is that useful?
 
Is that useful?
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Well done, but it seems to me that one reacting in that way is better off with a spray-N-pray gun like my Glock22 night stand gun with flashlight and laser on the rail.

Revolver folks would be obliged to make every shot count, training to think of each shot as their last.

It also highlights the importance of shooting with a larger caliber that is more likely to shock an assailant.

Lastly, we aren't necessarily shooting double action guns.
 
Posted by Real Gun: Well done, but it seems to me that one reacting in that way is better off with a spray-N-pray gun like my Glock22 night stand gun with flashlight and laser on the rail.
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Forgetting the flashlight....

I don't see how any defender could avoid "reacting in that way" and hope to come out of the incident unscathed.

You do not see Mike Seeklander engaging in a "spray-N-pray" reaction. He is shooting fast but very effectively, in the way defenders are trained today.

Revolver folks would be obliged to make every shot count, training to think of each shot as their last.
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That does not mean that they would have any more time at all, or that they would get by with shooting more slowly.

Yes, a semiautomatic would be my choice. I have taken two pretty good defensive shooting courses, and revolvers were not allowed.

There are courses for using a back-up revolver from time to time, but I haven't seen that one I could get to.

It also highlights the importance of shooting with a larger caliber that is more likely to shock an assailant.
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I labored under that idea for decades myself , and as recently as just over five years ago I bought a .45 ACP for that reason, but in point of fact, as I finally realized later, service-caliber handgun rounds do not "shock". Frank Ettin has posted an excellent summary on that, and I'll take a look for it.

Lastly, we aren't necessarily shooting double action guns.
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Sure. A Model 1911, for example, is not double action. But if you are thinking of defending yourself with a single action revolver, that video should give you second thoughts.
 
Promised Frank Ettin Post

Read the third quote under V, than the "Rule of Thumb" under II, and then read the whole thing.

Then consider the scenario in the Seeklander video against the backdrop of Frank's discussion.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5825755&postcount=107

I had been shooting handguns for decades before I taking my first high performance defensive pistol shooting course. I was very surprised at the emphasis on shooting fast.

Looking back, I had completely tuned out snippets on TV showing IDPA competitions, in which speed and hits are essential. It had not interested me.

I suggest looking into the Combat Focus Shooing course on the I.C.E. Personal Defense Network tour, or Dynamic Focus Shooting at a Gander Mountain Academy, which is the same thing. The emphasis is on reacting quickly and on the balance of speed and precision.
 
Posted by gbclarkson: I have a .357 by the bed. Is this a rational reason?: If I fire in the house I want my neighbors to hear it.
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Not in my opinion.

It would likely be the last thing you would be able to heart for some time, and that could pose a very serious problem.

And it would vey likely cause measurable permanent noise-induced hearing loss for you and anyone else in the room, including pets.
 
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