.25 or a good knife?

Certain knives are better.

The question the OP asks compares a wheezy cartridge to any number of knives. As you know, I've been carrying a Razel. At contact distances, that knife leaves more damage than most firrearms. In the hands of a trained Ecrima practioner, it's more deadly than any gun.

Several years ago a salesman told me about his use of a .25 ACP. He went to visit a buddy of his who did the graveyard shift at a gas station. While they were sitting around schmoozing, two hold-up men hit the place.

My buddy pulled a .25 ACP and fired six shots, all hits, into the chest of one of the robbers at a distance across the counter. The hold-up men were stunned and ran off. They called the police who could not find anyone.

Over the next few days there were no reports of bodies or injuries treated at local ERs. They could only surmise that the coat the guy was wearing blunted any impact of the small cartridge.

Compare that to any knife wielder who grabs the aggressor and slices him a few times.
 
Over the next few days there were no reports of bodies or injuries treated at local ERs. They could only surmise that the coat the guy was wearing blunted any impact of the small cartridge.
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Let's hear it for not even third-hand anecdotal evidence.

Maybe his accomplices let him die and dropped him into the river never to be seen again, maybe they weren't local?
 
.25 because it's not necessary to get within contact distance for it to be effective. There is also the psychological deterrent of a gun. Nobody in their right mind wants to get shot by a gun in any caliber.

10 years ago the .25 was about it for a really small gun but with Seacamps, Kel-tecs, Rohrboughs, and Ruger LCPs now available that put a .32, .380, or 9mm in a ridiculously small package I can't see a reason to carry a .25 anymore.
 
ElectricHellfire said:
A coat that can stop a .25acp at close range may also impede a knife attack as well. Just mabey.
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You haven't seen one of my knives.:D

Obviously if your attacker is your typical drunken townie using a Chicago Cutlery steak knife, then you are probably right.

But a better quality knife (or a knife with an American tanto tip) will easily go through a coat and sometimes kevlar.

Now granted, a .25 ACP is better than harsh language, but if you're going to take the time and money to carry this type of pistol, why not buy a decent knife?
 
I'll turn it around...

Because I am quite familiar with guns, and the bulk of my martial experience with knives is in combat with various cuts of beef, I think I would feel more comfortable with the gun in my hand. However, I asked myself this question: which would frighten me more to see in the hands of an attacker at contact distances? I think I might just rather see him holding a Raven or it's like than any knife two inches or longer.
 
I have two Scrapyard Dumpster mutts with the penetrator tip but they are a little on the large side to ED carry IMO. I have a plethora of other knives mostly fixed blades. Still Id take the .25acp.
 
Try this with a .25 Auto.

spetsnaz.jpg
 
I cant' believe this is even a question.

Never take a knife to a gun fight.


If YOUR the guy with the gun, you're the guy MAKING IT a gun fight.


Guns are better than knives for SD, 99.99999% of the time.

I'd take a .17HMR revolver over a knife.
 
Without a doubt the .25, but I see no reason to limit my self to one or the other. I sometimes will venture out with just my IJ TP-22 in my pocket but I always have my Cold Steel El Lobo folder clipped to my pocket.
 
My buddy pulled a .25 ACP and fired six shots, all hits, into the chest of one of the robbers at a distance across the counter. The hold-up men were stunned and ran off.
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Sounds like the .25 worked just fine. It stopped the attack and repelled the BGs. If you would have had to wait for the BGs to get close enough to use the knife it might not have worked quite as well.
 
Lies about "knife fighting"

The only place where the knife fighting fantasy exists
is in the martial arts. There is no such thing in the modern
civilized world. In legal terms it is attempted murder,
assault with a deadly weapon or homicide. To the streetfighter
it is assassination, not a "fight" at all. To the criminal it is a tool
for robbery. Everyone else considers it abhorrent macho stupidity.


Despite all the fantasy self-defense scenarios so-called "knife experts" concoct in their minds and are always talking about -- where they would be justified in using a knife on another human being -- the flat-out truth is that in 99.9% of the times that a knife is used on another human being it is a criminal act.


A knife is considered a lethal force instrument...and the use of lethal force is *very* narrowly approved. If you use one another human being you had better damned well be firmly within those parameters...if not, then you are -- in the eyes of the law and society -- the bad guy.

Before you even think of picking up a knife for "self-defense" go out and take a course on Judicious Use of Lethal force. Do NOT take any knife fighting experts word on the subject, go to the source lawyers and expert witnesses on use of force.

Knife fighting lies

I carry a knife, but mainly as a tool. I know effective ways to use it as a weapon. It would be my very last resort. Remember even if you do prevail, you are going to have to explain why someone is lying exsanguinated on the street and you didn't just run away.-nate
 
Nate

I completly agree with you, I carry a knife as a tool. I no longer carry a backup handgun, something that I struggled to do for many years. I consider a knife the last gasp, however, it beats a open hand when your handgun fails to comply. Anything that can help you deliver maximum force when needed is GOOD.

Good Luck & Be Safe
 
will agree with others that a gun is much better than a knife but if you can't draw your weapon in time because your gaurd was down,mabye just mabye you can regain the upper hand and gut em provided you are that close.Hey wvfishguy thanks for the flashback,what a horrible event.Makes me proud to know i'm from a real redneck family.
 
Personally, I'd spend the money you'd use to get a .25 on ammo for a .45 and then practice, practice, practice. Knife works requires: a good blade (duh!), practice (duh!), and stamina (fighting spirit too) to keep fighting after you've been cut. No matter how "skilled" you may be, if you can't keep fighting until the end, you will be at yours.
If, however, you choose to go with the .25, still practice like a madman. With that small of a caliber making every shot count is CRUCIAL, as I'm sure you well know. The key is, as I see it: No matter what tool you choose to protect yourself, there is NO substitute for practice.
JMHO
 
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I sometimes carry a Beretta 21 with a MecGar 9-rd mag, giving me 10rounds, plus a OEM 8rd mag for a reload. I also carry a nice lockblade as back-up.
The Beretta 21 is very accurate, and I can place all 10 rounds in a nose size group at 10 feet in seconds.
As far as using a knife for self defense, I am aware of an incident in the Cleveland area where a bridegroom was stabbed to death in an altercation following a batchelor party. The acused was painted by the media as an evildoer, while the dead bridegroom was a wonderful guy, complete with interviews with the grieving bride-to-be-no-more.
It came out at the trial that the acused was defending himself from the drunken batchelor party group, and was on the ground getting stomped when he started stabbing. Several of the group had stab wounds to the shins.
Not guilty, was the verdict.
As has been said about semi auto rifles and tricked out pistols, it dosn't matter what weapon you use to defend yourself, if you are in the right, you are in the right.
 
Knife works requires: a good blade (duh!), practice (duh!), and stamina (fighting spirit too) to keep fighting after you've been cut.
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How are you going to practice for a knife fight? Keep fighting after you've been cut? So your opponet is also going to be armed with a knife? Do you also practice shank fighting so you can defend yourself after being sent to prison?

Knife fighting lies


Lie #2 It's going to be a knife "fight"
Shortly before his death, I was sitting at the NRA convention in Phoenix with Col. Rex Applegate, the father of American military knife work. We were discussing the fad of "knife fighting" that we, as old timers in the subject, were both amused and bemused with. He summed up the problem with what was being promoted as knife work as "They're teaching dueling." By this he meant standing there toe-to-toe, with the same weapons and trying to kill each other like civilized gentlemen.

Not to be the bearer of bad tidings, but the reason someone uses a weapon on another human being is to stack the deck in their favor. People don't use weapons to fight, they use weapons to win. The absolute last thing any attacker wants to do is to fight you with equal weapons. If he was looking for a fight he wouldn't have attacked you with a weapon in the first place. And if he knows you have a knife, he is going to attack you with a bigger and better weapon to keep you from winning.

There is no fighting involved, you use the superior weapon to disable your opponent. And you do it before he does it to you.
 
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