22LR for self defense
- Thread starter Ar15M4
- Start date
\No one is claiming it ias harnmless.
When you fire a gun at soeone you want them to STOP.
NOW.
IMMEDIATELY.
A .22 RF is not powerful enough for reliable penetration into the chest cavity.
Can it?
Yes.
Will it? That depends on what it hit on the way in, how big the target is (muscle and fat), etc.
Any number of rounds have been known to bounce off human skulls, from .22 Rf to .45 ACP.
While a .22 RF may be accurate, the level of accuracy it requires for anything approaching a CNS stopping shot is not easy in a moving dynamic thing like a self defense shooting.
Bill DeShivs
New member
No handgun round can be relied on to stop WITHOUT a CNS hit.
As far as 22 misfiresfo, I have never talked to anyone that hasn't had a few. I think it goes with the territory. If an individual round has a very slight difference in case thickness, the firing pin may not impact the rim hard enough to create ingnition. Also, the older the .22 round is the more likely it is to misfire.
I might consider carrying a 22lr as a 3rd gun. I carry a Glock 27 & a Taurus TCP as a bug gun. I could see carrying a little 22lr derringer in my pocket as a backup bug gun for use if the other two become disabled somehow. It would probably fit in the little watch pocket in my Lee jeans. 3 guns can't be bad!!!!!
Mike Irwin
Staff
I've carried a Taurus PT-22 on and off for years.
With Winchester Wildcat ammo it is, and always has been, 100% reliable in over 2,500 rounds fired.
As for the reliability of the rimfire .22, I've had MORE centerfire rounds by Remington fail to fire than I have ever had .22 rounds fail to fire, and I've burned through, at this point in my life, well over 100,000 rounds of .22.
With Winchester Wildcat ammo it is, and always has been, 100% reliable in over 2,500 rounds fired.
As for the reliability of the rimfire .22, I've had MORE centerfire rounds by Remington fail to fire than I have ever had .22 rounds fail to fire, and I've burned through, at this point in my life, well over 100,000 rounds of .22.
When we were first married my wife wouldn't shoot very much and she laid claim to my Ruger SP-101 .22lr. She could shoot it fairly well but for over 10 years I've tried to get her to shoot a little more. A few weeks ago we were watching something on TV--probably the news--and it made me ask her "Are you ready to get your CCW license now?" She surprised me and answered "Yes, I think I am." Since then she's chosen an LCP as her pistol, but she may change her mind now that she's used my LCR quite a bit. However, her favorite seems to be my M&P40 and she shoots it pretty well. I guess it's "ours" now! For a long while I at least knew she could handle herself with that .22, but now I'm relieved to know she can handle most anything else in the house.
When it comes to misfires in 22lr ammo, by and large the majority I have experienced have been Remington Thunderbolt. I've seen other inexpensive bulk ammo do the same--including Federal and CCI's cheaper stuff. To help pay my way through school I worked my summers at Camp Robert C. Webb and most of those summers were spent working at the Hunter Safety area. I honestly couldn't tell you just how many misfires I witnessed or personally experienced but there were dozens. It's amazing how fast you can learn to hear a "click" on a rifle range where six kids are laying there with their rifles firing away.
When it comes to misfires in 22lr ammo, by and large the majority I have experienced have been Remington Thunderbolt. I've seen other inexpensive bulk ammo do the same--including Federal and CCI's cheaper stuff. To help pay my way through school I worked my summers at Camp Robert C. Webb and most of those summers were spent working at the Hunter Safety area. I honestly couldn't tell you just how many misfires I witnessed or personally experienced but there were dozens. It's amazing how fast you can learn to hear a "click" on a rifle range where six kids are laying there with their rifles firing away.
pythagorean
Moderator
Have 41, will travel.
I had a situation 25 years ago where I had to walk into a house that had at least 5 bikers holding a person I wanted to walk out the door with. It was very likely I was going to have to shoot some or all of the ones who had a problem with this. Unlike the majority of opinions that are premised on who knows what "might" happen, I knew exactly what I was up against.
Of all of my choices of 100% reliable weapons I had on hand at the time it came down to a 4 inch Python or a S&W model 41 with the shorter heavier 5 inch barrel. I chose the model 41 in the back of my slacks with two extra magazines butt up in my left back pocket. I expected four or five in the living room and a couple in back rooms who could be expected to show up with shotguns.
I can't think of anything I can shoot faster and more accurately than that .22, and it has never ever misfired in the time I owned it, competed, and hunted with it. At that time I absolutely hated the way any of the hi-cap guns felt. I had a Browning 9mm and didn't care for it. Before anyone says they would have used a 9mm or bigger gun I was very concerned with noise, you can't run a barrage of heavy caliber fire in a residential area without having half the on duty police force show up before you are gone.
Nuff on that, the whole story or even some details would inevitably have someone calling BS as it's pretty wild, someone will anyway but that will just be a mark of ignorance since nobody knows me. Anyone who does know me figures I have the lock on crazy incidents and past.
Anyone can say whatever they want about a .22 being inadequate, but they haven't had to think about what they would use in a specifically applicable situation where it can shine in the hands of a competent person. The .22 in different forms has been referred to as a professional's weapon for a reason. It can and will do the job. Where a .22 can start to become a joke as a multi dimensional defense gun is in the little one or two inch barrel mouse guns. Give it a gun platform like a Beretta 87 or other reliable longer barelled configurations and it's a different animal. Silenced beretta or other quality small guns make deadly tools.
I will add that the way I handled this situation made my reputation with a rough crowd. They respected my confidence (cajones) and that I didn't have to actually shoot anyone even though it could have easily escalated to that. To actually have this all in context it would take a lot more info than I should share.
Of all of my choices of 100% reliable weapons I had on hand at the time it came down to a 4 inch Python or a S&W model 41 with the shorter heavier 5 inch barrel. I chose the model 41 in the back of my slacks with two extra magazines butt up in my left back pocket. I expected four or five in the living room and a couple in back rooms who could be expected to show up with shotguns.
I can't think of anything I can shoot faster and more accurately than that .22, and it has never ever misfired in the time I owned it, competed, and hunted with it. At that time I absolutely hated the way any of the hi-cap guns felt. I had a Browning 9mm and didn't care for it. Before anyone says they would have used a 9mm or bigger gun I was very concerned with noise, you can't run a barrage of heavy caliber fire in a residential area without having half the on duty police force show up before you are gone.
Nuff on that, the whole story or even some details would inevitably have someone calling BS as it's pretty wild, someone will anyway but that will just be a mark of ignorance since nobody knows me. Anyone who does know me figures I have the lock on crazy incidents and past.
Anyone can say whatever they want about a .22 being inadequate, but they haven't had to think about what they would use in a specifically applicable situation where it can shine in the hands of a competent person. The .22 in different forms has been referred to as a professional's weapon for a reason. It can and will do the job. Where a .22 can start to become a joke as a multi dimensional defense gun is in the little one or two inch barrel mouse guns. Give it a gun platform like a Beretta 87 or other reliable longer barelled configurations and it's a different animal. Silenced beretta or other quality small guns make deadly tools.
I will add that the way I handled this situation made my reputation with a rough crowd. They respected my confidence (cajones) and that I didn't have to actually shoot anyone even though it could have easily escalated to that. To actually have this all in context it would take a lot more info than I should share.
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gunsrtools
New member
I have had a few ER Docs and a few Law Enforcement Captains tell me that one would be better armed with a .22LR than a .25ACP or a .32. The reason they state is the .22LR bounces around and does alot of damage internally.
While .25ACP 's in particular, in mant instances, have been spit out by folks shot in the face.
I usually carry a .40 but if i were restricted to a .25 or a .32 or the .22LR....
I suppose the .22LR would be the better choice.
While .25ACP 's in particular, in mant instances, have been spit out by folks shot in the face.
I usually carry a .40 but if i were restricted to a .25 or a .32 or the .22LR....
I suppose the .22LR would be the better choice.
Bill DeShivs
New member
.25s are more reliable, and penetrate as well or better than .22s from short barrels.
Not me
Having many friends that were in LO, the aim of the self defense platform is the accurate delivery of a bullet to center mass (8" circle) that will stop the perp, or incapacitate the ability to continue. People that think they can accurately place a head shot (4" circle) with a 22LR while under life threatening duress are just asking to get maimed or killed. I've killed a lot of squirrels, rabbits, and dogs with 22LR. Only the rabbits and squirrels die quick.
With the advent of higher strength, cheaper drugs the bad guys can absorb a lot of power; however, a center mass strike of a 357/125, 40/155, or 45/185 stops the show.
Having many friends that were in LO, the aim of the self defense platform is the accurate delivery of a bullet to center mass (8" circle) that will stop the perp, or incapacitate the ability to continue. People that think they can accurately place a head shot (4" circle) with a 22LR while under life threatening duress are just asking to get maimed or killed. I've killed a lot of squirrels, rabbits, and dogs with 22LR. Only the rabbits and squirrels die quick.
With the advent of higher strength, cheaper drugs the bad guys can absorb a lot of power; however, a center mass strike of a 357/125, 40/155, or 45/185 stops the show.
comn-cents
New member
I don't know how many times I've hard how 22 bounce around in the body. How come I doubt it. I'm just going off the weight of the bullet and how fast it is going to slow down once it enters the body let alone hits something to bounce off of. The body isn't hollow!