22LR for self defense
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L_Killkenny
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Lot's of internet conjecture and one line responses that are not based in any sort of fact on this thread.
First off a gun, any gun, is ALWAYS better than a knife. A knife is strictly a contact weapon, transmits little if any shock and requires a target to bleed out. In a heads up knife fight both parties will usually sustain wounds. A gun, even a lowly .22, can kill, injure and maim from distance, it causes shock and trauma and can create the the heralded one shot stop much more often than a knife.
Second, some here seem to think that .22's just bounce off things. Having shot 1000's of rounds into coon and similar game I have never seen it. I've never found a .22 bullet just below the surface of anything. The fact is that a quality .22LR fired from a handgun is still a 40gr hunk of metal traveling at close to the speed of sounds. It's gonna leave a mark.
A .22LR is never gonna be a better man stopper than it's bigger brothers. The energy, while not the end all to effectiveness, is a good indicator and it just isn't there in much quantity in a .22LR. The wound channel, shock, and tissue disruption from any defensive HP in centerfire .32's on up is gonna be bigger and more dramatic. A hit 1" from the spine with a .22 might not cause a one shot stop due to lack of damage and shock transmitted while a hit 1" away with a .357M most certainly will. I've seen wounds from a .357 it in no way resembles the wound from a .22. Not even close, completely different ballgame here
A .22LR does have some advantages. 99.9% of shooters and non-shooters will shoot better with a .22LR. IMO, that percentage can be even more in a time of crisis and peril. You ask a most shooters to put 6 rounds into a peice of paper as fast as they can wit ha .22 and then have them put 6 fast rounds from a .357M or compact 9mm into another from the same distance. More than likely the groups from the .22 will be smaller and the time will be faster. 2 very good things. Does it make up for a lack of power? No, but it helps.
There is one other advantage non-traditional SD gun category which a .22LR should fit into. Some folks don't own and/or don't have any ambition to own a dedicated SD gun. A gun is a tool. In my house the more uses a tool has the better. I buy plain Jain 16oz hammers. Yes a 20oz framing hammer would be better for building a shed and a ball pin would be better from installing new trim. But for me to buy three different hammers for use around the house would be a waste of a couple bucks. Same could be said for a dedicated SD gun. Some semi auto guys would feel unarmed with only a 5 shot snub, a DA revolver guy might think a SA is a horrid idea for a carry gun, Tacticool shotgun guys might think a double barreled bird gun is a horrid idea for HD, and yes most centerfire SD carriers think a rimfire is worthless. But ya know what, I'd be fine with a Snub or single action for carry, a double barreled shotgun for HD and would feel far from unarmed with a .22 on my side. And any gun that I own is gonna get used for more than just SD/HD. Plinkin, hunting and target work all included. I have no ambition to own any dedicated SD/HD guns and will make work my hunting and plinkin guns. To me, a small, compact brass chucker has but one use.
In reality a .22 will do OK in a majority of SD scenarios considering bad guys don't like to get shot at and they like to gettin shot even less with any gun.
LK
First off a gun, any gun, is ALWAYS better than a knife. A knife is strictly a contact weapon, transmits little if any shock and requires a target to bleed out. In a heads up knife fight both parties will usually sustain wounds. A gun, even a lowly .22, can kill, injure and maim from distance, it causes shock and trauma and can create the the heralded one shot stop much more often than a knife.
Second, some here seem to think that .22's just bounce off things. Having shot 1000's of rounds into coon and similar game I have never seen it. I've never found a .22 bullet just below the surface of anything. The fact is that a quality .22LR fired from a handgun is still a 40gr hunk of metal traveling at close to the speed of sounds. It's gonna leave a mark.
A .22LR is never gonna be a better man stopper than it's bigger brothers. The energy, while not the end all to effectiveness, is a good indicator and it just isn't there in much quantity in a .22LR. The wound channel, shock, and tissue disruption from any defensive HP in centerfire .32's on up is gonna be bigger and more dramatic. A hit 1" from the spine with a .22 might not cause a one shot stop due to lack of damage and shock transmitted while a hit 1" away with a .357M most certainly will. I've seen wounds from a .357 it in no way resembles the wound from a .22. Not even close, completely different ballgame here
A .22LR does have some advantages. 99.9% of shooters and non-shooters will shoot better with a .22LR. IMO, that percentage can be even more in a time of crisis and peril. You ask a most shooters to put 6 rounds into a peice of paper as fast as they can wit ha .22 and then have them put 6 fast rounds from a .357M or compact 9mm into another from the same distance. More than likely the groups from the .22 will be smaller and the time will be faster. 2 very good things. Does it make up for a lack of power? No, but it helps.
There is one other advantage non-traditional SD gun category which a .22LR should fit into. Some folks don't own and/or don't have any ambition to own a dedicated SD gun. A gun is a tool. In my house the more uses a tool has the better. I buy plain Jain 16oz hammers. Yes a 20oz framing hammer would be better for building a shed and a ball pin would be better from installing new trim. But for me to buy three different hammers for use around the house would be a waste of a couple bucks. Same could be said for a dedicated SD gun. Some semi auto guys would feel unarmed with only a 5 shot snub, a DA revolver guy might think a SA is a horrid idea for a carry gun, Tacticool shotgun guys might think a double barreled bird gun is a horrid idea for HD, and yes most centerfire SD carriers think a rimfire is worthless. But ya know what, I'd be fine with a Snub or single action for carry, a double barreled shotgun for HD and would feel far from unarmed with a .22 on my side. And any gun that I own is gonna get used for more than just SD/HD. Plinkin, hunting and target work all included. I have no ambition to own any dedicated SD/HD guns and will make work my hunting and plinkin guns. To me, a small, compact brass chucker has but one use.
In reality a .22 will do OK in a majority of SD scenarios considering bad guys don't like to get shot at and they like to gettin shot even less with any gun.
LK
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in response to your original question, if your wife enjoys shooting a .22 enough to get pretty good with it, then, yes, it would be MUCH better to carry than nothing.
I'm not any kind of a "combat" type shooter, but once, just for grins, I thought I'd see how I could do a combat type reload after emptying my Ruger MkII. I shot at 7 yds, indoors, and emptied the mag, reloaded, and emptied the second one in around 10 seconds. All shots were centered in the head of a silhouette target.
I imagine that a flurry of .22 bullets hitting you in the face area would dissuade nearly ANY assailant. Probably the same with several hitting you center chest.
No, it's not an ideal SD choice. Yes, it should work acceptably well in that role, MOST of the time. Yes, it's WAY better than pepper spray or a whistle.
As an aside, on the hp issue, I had a friend that was showing off doing his "fast draw" and managed to discharge the pistol while putting it back in the holster. The .22 hp struck him just below the knee, on the back side of his leg (top of the calf muscle) and traveled all the way down his leg, through the calf, lodging just under the skin at his ankle.
He showed me the bullet after surgery, and it looked almost like it could be loaded and shot again.. NO expansion at that velocity in soft tissue. Just one example.
I'm not any kind of a "combat" type shooter, but once, just for grins, I thought I'd see how I could do a combat type reload after emptying my Ruger MkII. I shot at 7 yds, indoors, and emptied the mag, reloaded, and emptied the second one in around 10 seconds. All shots were centered in the head of a silhouette target.
I imagine that a flurry of .22 bullets hitting you in the face area would dissuade nearly ANY assailant. Probably the same with several hitting you center chest.
No, it's not an ideal SD choice. Yes, it should work acceptably well in that role, MOST of the time. Yes, it's WAY better than pepper spray or a whistle.
As an aside, on the hp issue, I had a friend that was showing off doing his "fast draw" and managed to discharge the pistol while putting it back in the holster. The .22 hp struck him just below the knee, on the back side of his leg (top of the calf muscle) and traveled all the way down his leg, through the calf, lodging just under the skin at his ankle.
He showed me the bullet after surgery, and it looked almost like it could be loaded and shot again.. NO expansion at that velocity in soft tissue. Just one example.micromontenegro
New member
When I was much younger, I used to carry a Beretta 70S in .22LR. But I practiced with that gun every single day and was so sure about where I could place my bullets and about the pistol's reliability that I didn't care about its lack of stopping power.
Now that I sadly can't afford the time to keep up such a level of proficiency, I carry a PPK/S in 380. Not exactly a powerhouse, either, but makes me feel much safer.
Now that I sadly can't afford the time to keep up such a level of proficiency, I carry a PPK/S in 380. Not exactly a powerhouse, either, but makes me feel much safer.
Get better ammo.
I have shot more 22s than any other caliber. Since 1964 when I got my first 22 I bet i shot thousands upon thousands of rounds and not one miss fire ever.
Country folk know the 22 is one versatile round and we use it often.
Had a squirrel get up on ya? Shot placement will kill him every time. I hunt with a 22 short and fill the bag every time.
I killed over 200 hogs with a 22 and probably a hundred steers, yep a 22.
These threads sure are funny to read.
micromontenegro
New member
Same here. I have shot several tens of thousands of .22s, mainly shorts- and to this day, never a miss fire. Maybe I am just plain lucky? I do use quality ammo, always.
Exactly ,growing up on a small farm we butchered everything for our selves. Hate to guess how many hogs and beef the 22 put down, and never required a second shot.Only two hogs that I can remember being shot with anything else, a neighbor shot one when I was real young, shot it with a 38 an it took a second round to put down,I'll remember that mess all my life. The other I shot as a teenager ,the 22 was frozen, and I was in a hurry so I shot the hog with a 44 special, Dad had a fit, wanted to know who the he!! did that,man did I get dressed down ,I had wasted meat and endangered life.I had trouble believing it till we dress the hog, the bullet was just under the skin in the bottom of the chest.Dad showed that to me and asked just where that bullet would have gone if it had passed through and hit the concrete floor.
As for misfires yes I've had many, just about all were from bulk ammo,but these days I take many young people shooting and they shot up lots of ammo, an I'm not rich.As aside note I've found that if you stay with young shooters like you should, a misfire may be a good thing, learning early how to clear a weapon safely seems to teach some very good lessons.
Alex
As for misfires yes I've had many, just about all were from bulk ammo,but these days I take many young people shooting and they shot up lots of ammo, an I'm not rich.As aside note I've found that if you stay with young shooters like you should, a misfire may be a good thing, learning early how to clear a weapon safely seems to teach some very good lessons.
Alex
aarondhgraham
New member
A year ago I took a lady to the range,,,
She had never shot a gun before,,,
I took my S&W Model 18,,,
And my Ruger 22/45,,,
She loved the Ruger.
Mine is the most basic model,,,
4.5" slab side barrel,,,
Fixed sights.
Anyways she loved the gun,,,
And she found she loved shooting,,,
So even though we didn't continue dating,,,
She joined my rifle & pistol club and bought an identical 22/45.
I see her out there a lot,,,
If anyone is going to actually wear one out,,,
She is going to be the person to do it because she shoots a lot!
Anyways, this is her only gun,,,
She takes lessons from a local instructor,,,
I've seen her hit a bouncing basketball coming at her.
In her case I do believe it's all the gun she needs,,,
But it only because she's so danged proficient.
She got her CCP and I really expected her to get a bigger gun,,,
But no, she is staying with her 22/45 for self defense.
All she is doing differently is using better ammo than she uses for target practice.
The moral of this long ramble is,,,
A .22 is probably good enough for her,,,
But that's because she shoots it very very well,,,
If she can keep her head I believe she will be just fine.
Am I going to carry a .22 for SD?,,,
Nope, I want something big enough that even if I miss,,,
The shock wave of the passing bullet will knock the BG on his keester.
Then I can aim for the head shot.
Aarond
She had never shot a gun before,,,
I took my S&W Model 18,,,
And my Ruger 22/45,,,
She loved the Ruger.
Mine is the most basic model,,,
4.5" slab side barrel,,,
Fixed sights.
Anyways she loved the gun,,,
And she found she loved shooting,,,
So even though we didn't continue dating,,,
She joined my rifle & pistol club and bought an identical 22/45.
I see her out there a lot,,,
If anyone is going to actually wear one out,,,
She is going to be the person to do it because she shoots a lot!
Anyways, this is her only gun,,,
She takes lessons from a local instructor,,,
I've seen her hit a bouncing basketball coming at her.
In her case I do believe it's all the gun she needs,,,
But it only because she's so danged proficient.
She got her CCP and I really expected her to get a bigger gun,,,
But no, she is staying with her 22/45 for self defense.
All she is doing differently is using better ammo than she uses for target practice.
The moral of this long ramble is,,,
A .22 is probably good enough for her,,,
But that's because she shoots it very very well,,,
If she can keep her head I believe she will be just fine.
Am I going to carry a .22 for SD?,,,
Nope, I want something big enough that even if I miss,,,
The shock wave of the passing bullet will knock the BG on his keester.
Then I can aim for the head shot.
Aarond
I remember reading an article a gazillion years ago, and I can't remember if it was just a gun rag or something NRA published, but it had something to do with various rounds, their stopping power, etc.
The gist of the article was that the magic number was 3. Three hits from anything, all the way down to the lowly .22, would put someone down no matter what. I'm guessin that on average 45's generally take less than 3 rounds to put somebody down, but I think it was probably geared towards those more "questionable" rounds like 9mm, .380, etc.
Personally I'm a complete and total sissy and would rather not get shot with anything, even the little girlie rounds like .22s.
Anyway, it's been a lot of years. Maybe somebody else can shed more light on that particular subject.
The gist of the article was that the magic number was 3. Three hits from anything, all the way down to the lowly .22, would put someone down no matter what. I'm guessin that on average 45's generally take less than 3 rounds to put somebody down, but I think it was probably geared towards those more "questionable" rounds like 9mm, .380, etc.
Personally I'm a complete and total sissy and would rather not get shot with anything, even the little girlie rounds like .22s.
Anyway, it's been a lot of years. Maybe somebody else can shed more light on that particular subject.
22 LR for Self Defense
More people die from .22 calibers than any other each year. The problem is that the .22 calibers lack stopping power, unless precise bullet placement is achieved. I love .22's to plink with, target shoot with, or hunt small game with. I would never carry one for self defense, in fact I carry nothing but a .45 for self defense.
More people die from .22 calibers than any other each year. The problem is that the .22 calibers lack stopping power, unless precise bullet placement is achieved. I love .22's to plink with, target shoot with, or hunt small game with. I would never carry one for self defense, in fact I carry nothing but a .45 for self defense.