22LR for self defense

A friend of mine, his sister decided to suicide in front of her ex-boy friend’s house.

She sat in her car, took a .22LR pistol, and shot her self through the heart.

A passer by heard her screaming and called 911.

The Doctor at the Hospital told her the bullet had gone through her heart, but they were not going to open her up as blood clotting had plugged up the wound. She was kept under observation until it healed.

She is still alive and well.

I am not impressed with the stopping power of .22LR’s, having shot plenty of squirrels, with a few who managed to get up and crawl away.

Shotguns are much better. When all those pellets hit at the same time, Mr. Squirrel is dead midflight to the ground.

People are bigger than squirrels, so I would want something bigger too.
 
Slamfire: said:
She sat in her car, took a .22LR pistol, and shot her self through the heart.

A passer by heard her screaming and called 911.

The Doctor at the Hospital told her the bullet had gone through her heart, but they were not going to open her up as blood clotting had plugged up the wound. She was kept under observation until it healed.

She is still alive and well.
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OK, so aiming for the heart isn't in play any more as a sure stop with a 22 pistol. So, I guess a nice tight group to the right eye might slow them down... unless they are left eye dominant!

22LR pistols are "Better than nothing", but not by much!!!!!
 
22LR pistols are "Better than nothing", but not by much!!!!
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I don't agree with this at all. Yes, a 22 is weak, but I believe it is much better than nothing. Many confrontations are ended at the first sight of a gun, many more after the first shot is fired. Using a 22 pistol is like going all in on a pair of pocket twos.
 
woodguru: said:
I had a situation 25 years ago where I had to walk into a house that had at least 5 bikers holding a person I wanted to walk out the door with. It was very likely I was going to have to shoot some or all of the ones who had a problem with this. Unlike the majority of opinions that are premised on who knows what "might" happen, I knew exactly what I was up against...

...Before anyone says they would have used a 9mm or bigger gun I was very concerned with noise, you can't run a barrage of heavy caliber fire in a residential area without having half the on duty police force show up before you are gone.
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Ummmmm, OK, if I have to shoot someone with my 357sig, which I carry on my side, then I want the "on duty police force" to show up before I'm gone!!! I can't imagine placing myself in a situation where I have to run from the police after I've shot five people.

Now having said that, one person going into a home with only a 22 pistol where an individual is evidently being held hostage by "at least five bikers" & this person is presuming that "It was very likely I was going to have to shoot some or all of the ones who had a problem with this" then the 22 is far from the best option. I don't care what your rationale was with your choice of the 22, it wasn't the best option if you had to take out "five bikers" and still live to talk about it. Once you shot the first biker, then the other bikers were going to pull their guns and fire away. You can bet your sweet butt that they weren't packing 22 pistols. So how does that keep down the noise. Your 22 pinging away while their 45acps are booming as the "on duty police force rushes to the scene. Hummmm...
 
I've experienced hundreds of misfires with .22s. This isn't some myth that people perpetuate for no reason. A lot of .22 guns actually suck pretty bad when it comes to reliability, as do a number of different .22 rounds.

I you have a reliable gun/ammo combination though, then a .22 is a good thing to have. It's a gun after all.
 
I've carried the following calibers for CCW:
.25 auto, .32 auto, .380, 9mm, .357 and .45
Did I feel confident in the gun and the ammunition - yes. The exception to this was the .25 caliber.

I live in a rural city with a very low violent crime record:

The number of violent crimes recorded by the FBI in 2003 was 62. The number of murders and homicides was 0. The violent crime rate was 3.1 per 1,000 people. In 2009 there were 35 violent crimes in the county. There was one murder.

The point I'm trying to make is that not everyone lives in a place where violent crime is common. Where every person on the street is a potential victim or a potential criminal.

Do I carry a .22 for self defense - yep. Do I feel that my combination of gun and ammo will be adequate if need be - yep.

My gun ammo combination is a PPK/S stuffed with ten Mini-mag 40 grain
rounds. This neat little package is carried in a IW holster.

Now as to the question of mis-fires with .22 ammo. I've had it happen and find it hard to believe that anyone who shoots .22 hasn't experienced one.

My experience has been that Mini-mag ammunition is quite reliable but I certainly can't say that I've never experienced a failure with it. Should I be concerned that this gun/ammo combination may fail during an emergency - it happens. Likewise it can also happen to any other gun/ammo combination that I might employ.

Only two things in life are inevitable - death and taxes. Everything else is a crap shoot.
 
22 misfires? Just go the the "misfire" can on most ranges. You will find more 22's than any other caliber in the can. I personally have had 20+ misfires over the years. This is from various rifles/ pistols that worked fine.

Bullseye shooting with rimfires - I thought that was what "alibi's" were about.

2nd hand. I'm in the ER when the ambulance brought in a gunshot person. I talked to him while we waited for the Doc to show up. Fastdraw got away from him. .22 from Ruger single six to the right thigh. He said "not much pain, Just an AW **** moment"
 
She sat in her car, took a .22LR pistol, and shot her self through the heart.

A passer by heard her screaming and called 911.

The Doctor at the Hospital told her the bullet had gone through her heart, but they were not going to open her up as blood clotting had plugged up the wound. She was kept under observation until it healed.

She is still alive and well.
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My (step) brother lost his life via a single .22lr from a short barrel revolver.

No one heard him screaming, because he was dead, and therefore not able to call for help.

The Doctor said the bullet penatrated his skull. There was no option of healing.

He is dead from a single .22lr and had no chance of survival.




The difference in these two stories shows how varied the result of a gun shot can be.
 
People have survived large caliber wounds to the heart, as well. I guess that also calls into question their stopping power ability.

Simple fact is the heart has some amazing self-sealing properties. As long as you don't disrupt the valves and get a shot right through muscle, there's a fair chance that the nature of the heart muscle is going to limit bleeding, making the wound survivable.
 
I occasionally carry my NAA Pug (.22mag) while on dog-walking duties; for anything more than a walk around the block, I take something bigger ... I would not carry a .22LR unless it was the only gun I owned ...
 
Before I get flamed...this is totally anecdotal:) My sons and I took our left over Halloween pumpkins to the range last weekend. We put a nice head sized pumpkin on a post a few feet away. We decided to try my NAA .22 mag loaded with armscor 40gr JSP's. The first shot hit dead center and made a nice little .22 hole in it. We checked out the back...WOW the bullet must have yawed and tumbled but a 2.5" chunk was ripped out of the rear of the pumpkin. The next four shots produced similar carnage:eek:

As many other posters have said, a .22 (or .22 mag) is not my first choice if I knew I was going into harms way. If I knew SH!T was about to hit the fan, I would have a rifle (and a shotgun!) with me, but for those times where there is a low threat level, the little NAA .22 mag is always on my person.
 
A .22LR is better than nothing. And I feel it's better than a .25 auto, a .22L & a .22S. But that's about it.

If that's all I had with me and had to use it for self defense, I would be glad I had it. And I'd make tripple-dipple sure that every round HAD to count. (Shot placement)

I doubt anyone would want one shot at them so there is some validity in it's lethality.
 
22 caliber-True Story

All i can say about the 22 LR, is that about 20 yrs. ago, there was a planned hit on an informant and the assailants, 2 of them, were to execute this informant, as they got the informant to drive them somewhere, of course, the informant, unwittingly, had no idea what was about to happen, the two hitmen opened fire with 22's and shot him in the head, the 2 hitmen, abandoned the car with the informant inside, which they thought he was dead, wrong, the 22's entered the head, but did not penetrate the skull, the bullets were found just under the skin, thus he survived. A few weeks later, the 2 hitmen who botched the hit were found dead in an auto, beneath the cal-sag channel. Get something more powerful!:rolleyes:
 
There are a few dozen cartridge bullet types that would not have left the guy alive, criminals are notoriously ignorant of the fine details such as proper bullet.

That story means nothing in terms of "is a .22 good" for the guy who uses the right gun and cartridge. The same stories abound for .380, .38, 9mm, etc.
 
If a 22 caliber is ALL you have for SD, then use it, but here is why it is grossly inferior to stake your life on:

The FBI says that 62% of police shootings, a bullet travels through an arm, hand, or leg before even touching the chest area and PD's frequently state that 50% of time the bullet has to travel at a odd angle before reaching the vitals. This is why PENETRATION is critical due to longer angles or extremities before reaching the vitals!

The average self defense HP loses 4" - 6" of penetrating power in flesh when it goes through a leather glove (both sides).

Average 22 caliber penetration from a handgun is in the 3" - 6" and this is not enough to quickly disable an attacker.
 
147 Grain "The average self defense HP loses 4" - 6" of penetrating power in flesh when it goes through a leather glove (both sides)".

How come I really doubt that. This is according to who and were can I read about that? Other than your post?
 
I have been doing some research into the subject recently as a .22 IS my only SD gun, and I've heard from both a coroner and an EMT that the .22 is more lethal than the mid sized calibers such as .32 or .380 auto. I have to say I didn't believe them till I did some testing of my own.

Did some shooting this weekend with some water bottles. Bottles were coke bottles filled with red cool-aid with the cap screwed on TIGHT

Shot the first one with a friends .380 Auto Using Silvertip hollowpoint. End result was that there was a hole in the front, and a hole in the back, and it slowly drained of fluid.

Next came my Mark III pistol in .22LR Using normal CCI mini-mags round tip not HP. MUCH different result. Not only did it put a big split in the bottle and spew the water inside out but the cap had been blown CLEAN off.

Long and short of it is: Is the .22LR superior for self defense than the .380 Auto? Much more testing is to be done on the matter but these fun targets have yeilded surprising results...
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Lot of opinion, but few facts on actual effectiveness.
WHO Carries??? = I DO! - a Hungarian made Walther PPK clone called an FEG AP-22, 8+1 SA/DA... It's in my pants pocket as I type this. :D Effective? = I can blow the pips out of a playing card at 7 yards and put the whole mag into a 4" circle as the target is cranked toward me from 7yds out at the local indoor pistol range. (YES, I Practice a LOT) :up: Penetration? = I use Hypervel HP's... they blow up on impact, penetrarion isn't the name of the game, I'm training to put 8 or 9 hollowpoints into a moving facesized target in the space of under 2 seconds... I'm not there yet, but I'm gaining on it! Bigger chamberings more effective? SURE! they are bigger and more powerful, my .45ACP sure is, but the .22 is in my pants, and the .45's in my parka in the closet. :down:
Another thing to relate about that cranked target drill at the pistol range... the guy with the Desert Eagle next to me liked the idea so much that he tried it He gets the first round off and by the time he was lining up for the second shot, the target was impacting the muzzel of his weapon ;)
In that time, I'd gotten off 5 rounds - all hits :up:

:btw: I choose my defensive weapons based on my observations of gunshot fatalities while I was a Crorner's Deputy in one of the SF Bay Area counties.... with one intresting observation... GSW's from large centerfire handguns were quickly fatal, as were the little rimfires(closer range, multiple hit groupings) the fatalities from the mid-caliber handgun chamberings lingerd long enough to have a side trip to the ER or ICU = IV lines, catheters, paddle burns from defib attempts, surgical wounds... some of these subjects were BG's that did damage after they were shot... we occasionally got side/by side posts = victem & perp.... the field reports were something to pay close attention to..... Which was why I chose my CCW's as I did..... I'll see your Gunrag statistics, and raise you a GSW autopsey :P
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I've also been hearing stories from my EMT and paramedic friends (one of which I was shooting with on this day). He agrees that the smaller faster rounds are doing more damage than the middle caliber rounds. I think the coroner has it right, the smaller faster rounds like the .22 and it's MUCH bigger cousin twice removed .357 magnum and the REALLY over sized rounds like .45acp are doing more damage than the middle calibers like the .32 and .380.
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http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthr ... 785&page=1

After shooting the 300 yards and taking back the target to the Jeep, we realized that one round had gone through the whole turkey, the clothing layers in the front AND the layers in the back as well!!!!!!!!!! And this had to occur between 250 yards and 300 yards. This was MUCH MORE than I ever had anticipated for the standard velocity 22LR round!!!!!!!!!!

Not only that but because the clothing was wrapped around and folded/taped in the back, it was the equivalent of shooting through 3 layers of clothing in the front and 6 LAYERS of clothing in the back plus on layer of duct tape!
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Long Story short, where the rubber hits the pavement, .22lr is killing more people per hit than the mid sized calibers because of the particular terminal ballistics of the high velocity rounds. DO NOT take .22LR lightly, the high velocity, round nose bullets (NOT the HP) are killers, even able to penetrate kevlar vests (this I have actually seen).

Also, Don't know the value of this but the .22LR ALSO did more damage going THROUGH my old Laptop than the .380 Auto.
 
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Ummmmm, OK, if I have to shoot someone with my 357sig, which I carry on my side, then I want the "on duty police force" to show up before I'm gone!!! I can't imagine placing myself in a situation where I have to run from the police after I've shot five people.

Now having said that, one person going into a home with only a 22 pistol where an individual is evidently being held hostage by "at least five bikers" & this person is presuming that "It was very likely I was going to have to shoot some or all of the ones who had a problem with this" then the 22 is far from the best option. I don't care what your rationale was with your choice of the 22, it wasn't the best option if you had to take out "five bikers" and still live to talk about it. Once you shot the first biker, then the other bikers were going to pull their guns and fire away. You can bet your sweet butt that they weren't packing 22 pistols. So how does that keep down the noise. Your 22 pinging away while their 45acps are booming as the "on duty police force rushes to the scene. Hummmm...
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Five quick headshots with the proper gun/ammo combination = five scrambled brains. Silenced makes it quick, this is why the Navy and mafia are using silcenced Ruger Mark II's
 
Any gun can kill... Even the pipsqueak 17 HMR can kill and so can the 22 short.

Certainly the Army thinks the 22 is great because thats what the M16 variants use as a basis although my experience in combat says something far different.

Its your life, do what you will but its simply not enough gun for me....
 
.22LR for self defense?

Beats a fist or a knife most of the time. But would rather use at least a .380 and up if I had my choice.
At any rate, a .22LR bullet (if properly placed) should be adequate enough to stop most threats, if that is what you choose to carry. Nobody but you can decide on what type of caliber you will use for self defense. If the .22LR is your choice, the only thing I would say in that regard, is to use a revolver as opposed to an automatic. Lots of reasons for this but the main one is reliability and that is the most important in my opinion.
One last comment: Maker sure you load it with CCI Velocitor 40 gr. HP bullets. Trust me, these are the best .22LR bullets I have ever shot and tested. If you gotta shoot a .22 then these are the bullets you want for self defense. Good luck ;)
 
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