.22lr Carbine for hd

orthosophy said:
I invite anyone who thinks 6 shot from a 20 gauge at 10 feet is not a viable defense round to stand in front of one. My anecdotal experience is that being shot with a small caliber bullet really didn't hurt too much at the time, and didn't really stop me from functioning.
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Wow, I've never heard that argument before. It TOTALLY changed my mind this time. :rolleyes: I don't want to be kicked in the balls; but kicking me in the balls isn't going to cause me to physiologically shut down regardless of how much I dislike it.

#6 shot from a 20 gauge at 10' could cause you to physioglogically shut down if we meet all the conditions stipulated earlier, it just is less likely to do that than heavier shot and is more susceptible to failure if not all of those conditions are met.

Look at your own words. You said about your chosen defense load "It's non unreasonable to hope a few walls will stop or slow it down to the point of impotence." - If 2-4" of powdered gypsum backed by paper slows down your chosen defense load to the point of impotence, what does that say about your chosen defense load? To me it says that there are lot of commonly occuring things in a house that will make that load impotent. Since I don't use lethal force for self-defense unless I think there is an immediate and serious threat of death or serious bodily injury, I don't want to use a load that is easily rendered impotent by commonly encountered materials.

You apparently, don't have a problem with that and that doesn't bother me in the least. However, you also don't seem to have a problem with recommending that solution to other people without any qualfiers - even when they didn't ask about shotguns at all in the initial post. So I just wanted to make it clear to someone who might read your advice what exactly they are getting into - and I also wanted to respond to Bill Deshivs, who normally has good advice; but with whom I disagreed in this particular instance.
 
I know this is just an anecdote that doesn't tell us much about the stopping power of shotguns but my oldest cousin told me a story while he was interning at a hospital in Memphis back in the 1980s.

A homeless fellow was brought in that had been hit in the lower abdomen with a shotgun blast. I don't know the gauge or the shot size but I was told the Xray showed almost 100 pellets that were stopped by the skin on the fellow's back after passing through from the front. My cousin said he worked for twelve hours on the fellow before the man finally died.


It seems like there was a Canadian study of birdshot penetration that considered sizes and distances and it wasn't impressive. I don't think any came close to the recommended 12 inch minimum.
 
My 2 cents worth. While not ideal, a Ruger 10/22 properly maintained/cleaned and fed good HP ammo such as CCI Stingers while not the best HD weapon would certainly be better than only dialing 911.

Short light, replace factory sites with a set of fiber optic sites or red dot type. Cheap easy to practice with, which leads to ability to shoot without fear and make reliable accurate hits. If you have a good 25 round Ruger mag that is lubed and runs cleanly even better. Teaching a novice to use one is very easy, even clearing a failure to fire should it happen. Again wouldn't be my first choice but certainly would hate to meet up with someone who has a loaded Ruger 10/22 at her shoulder and pointed at me.
 
Another Memphis 1980s anecdote:
I personally know both the shooter and the person shot.
Victim was shot in chest with a Rem 100 12 ga. with #8 birdshot at <10 feet.
Victim had consumed quite a bit of alcohol and cocaine. Victim ran 35 yards before collapsing from blood loss. Gunshot required removal of 1/2 of right lung, and shell wadding was removed from his spine. Shooting happened within 1/2 mile of ER.
Buckshot would have made no difference. Shot placement might have made a difference.
 
yeah, I didn't mean to start anything. The sad fact is nothing is a guaranteed show stopper with no drawbacks.

When he mentioned an apartment with kids, that was part of the same situation my gf was in, so we went into it thinking not only about the defense, but the other people and thin interior walls factor.

I have a bat and a .45 myself.

Anyway, yeah.
 
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