.22lr Carbine for hd

"If she enjoys a 22lr carbine it shouldn't be much of a jump to get to a 9mm, 5.56, or 30 carbine platform"

this is where the self defense argument snowballs. someone asks about a 22 and people try to upgrade you to a larger gun. if you upgrade from a 22 to a 9mm someone will tell you you should have got a 40cal and then someone will say you need nothing less than a 45. the same goes for rifles. next will come the brand argument, you will say you have x brand and everyone will tell you they wouldn't trust their life with anything less than a y or z brand gun. then comes the cost argument. they will tell you they wouldn't trust their lives to a $200 or $300 or $500 gun and you need to spend $1000 or $2000 or..well you see where this is going.

whatever you choose someone will be a critic. as i said earlier a solid hit with a 22 is better than a clean miss with some super duper gun and cartridge. stick with a respected reasonably priced brand gun of your choice. buy a respected premium brand of ammo and then practice. one great advantage of a 22 is the low cost of ammo compared to any centerfire. typicaly 22 ammo is aprox 1/5th to 1/10th the cost of larger calibers. the lower cost allows more practice, more practice means more accuracy and more confidence.

is a 22 the best caliber for self defense? for some people the answer is yes. there are more powerful calibers available but if the person can't handle the noise or the recoil or the cost then they wouldn't be the best choice for that person. some people who start with a 22 want to move up to a larger caliber at some time. many people that start with too powerful a gun get turned off immediatly and will never touch another gun. then the self defense value of any gun is zero.
 
Good points Dalegribble. I can understand the opposing opinions and respect the, but the view that this is something she is comfortable with carries the day for me.
 
A .22 lr carbine has much more energy than a .22 lr handgun.
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Thank you, Mr. DeShivs, for making a valid point that many people seem to want to ignore: we aren't talking about .22LR handguns. Longer barrel, more acceleration, better performance can be reasonably expected.

As for reliability: My experience may be better than some, but my .22LR plinker is highly reliable, and ammo issues have been fewer than 1 per 1000 rounds in the last couple of years.

If a .22 carbine is her choice, I would rather she have that than nothing, but I would still encourage training so that she handles and uses it safely and thoughtfully.
 
skans, 3 of your 6 reasons against .22 lr are reasons that disqualify every other caliber in similar circumstance.
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Carbines are cumbersome - I don't like them for home defense. What the heck do I need a carbine for at distances of less than 20 feet? This is just a personal opinion.

If a .22LR will over penetrate drywall, then why use .22LR? Step it up to something that has a little more punch.....or find a round that won't over penetrate if that's your primary concern.

My last comment was just basically saying that outdoor target/varmint shooting is quite different then indoor HD shooting - just because someone is comfortable with a gun in a particular setting doesn't mean its a good choice in a different setting. To me, using a 22 carbine/rifle for HD is a poor choice. But, if that's all you have and for whatever reason you don't want to or can't buy a .45, .40, or 9mm hand gun, then the OP will have to make due with it, that's all.
 
A 22 for HD is asking for trouble. Shooting a goblin in low light while they are charging you is not the same as a lazy Saturday at the park.

There are no easy answers, either you are prepared, or you are not.

Bird shot is for birds.

Get a youth 870 20 gauge and load it with 00 buck. Put a lite on it and teach her to shoot at 10 yards from the hip.
 
Sometimes, especially with significant others, it's possible that the only gun she will shoot and attain any level of familiarity with, is a 22 rifle. An AR, shotgun, Glock, etc. that she won't shoot regularly is useless. Maybe worse than useless. And if she doesn't enjoy shooting the gun in question, you can probably forget about attaining any level of familiarity.

If that is your situation (and it is my situation, too), then I see nothing wrong with a 22 semi-auto carbine. If she shoots the carbine well, it sure beats a can of pepper spray. If she shoots it really well, then she would be a very scary person to cross in a hallway. I know some women who are fiercely accurate with 22's.
 
I'm not recommending that your girl friend get a shotgun but..

I have seen some posts recomending a shotgun, and recomending gauge and load, so I thought I'd post this.

Firearms Tactical Institute report recomends #1 Buck

For personal defense and law enforcement applications, the International Wound Ballistics Association advocates number 1 buckshot as being superior to all other buckshot sizes.
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Number 1 buck is the smallest diameter shot that reliably and consistently penetrates more than 12 inches of standard ordnance gelatin when fired at typical shotgun engagement distances.
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A standard 2 ¾-inch 12 gauge shotshell contains 16 pellets of #1 buck. The total combined cross sectional area of the 16 pellets is 1.13 square inches. Compared to the total combined cross sectional area of the nine pellets in a standard #00 (double-aught) buck shotshell (0.77 square inches), the # 1 buck shotshell has the capacity to produce over 30 percent more potentially effective wound trauma. In all shotshell loads, number 1 buckshot produces more potentially effective wound trauma than either #00 or #000 buck. In addition, number 1 buck is less likely to over-penetrate and exit an attacker's body
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The full report:

http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs10.htm



.

I'm not saying she should get a 12ga, I'm just putting the info out there for #1 Buck.

I do think however that there are better options out there for her than the .22LR carbine.
 
Rifles are easier to shoot than pistols. Rifles have higher muzzle velocity than pistols-especially .22 rifles. Bullet expansion from the .22 lr (from a 16" barrel) is good, as is penetration. The muzzle energy from a .22 carbine is as good as (or better than) most pistol cartridges up to .38 special.
With reliable, tested ammunition a semi auto .22 carbine is a formidable weapon-especially in the hands of an experienced shooter. No gun is better suited for informal target shooting-which makes the user ultimately familiar and comfortable with the weapon. You don't need 25 or 50 round magazines, either.
I have built a couple of Marlin 60s with 16" barrels and shortened stocks for home defense over the years.
 
A .22 carbine style rifle should be in everyone's home defense and bug out kit. Perhaps it will be secondary or even third choice for many of us, but it's still a good item. I would prefer the handgun for close quarter, if room clearing is the need and cover is limited; however, if the situation is a sit in cover and wait for 'em, a .22 carbine or 20 guage youth pump or 12 guage should work if cover is available a reasonable distance from the entry way.
 
Lots of good points here. If you're not afraid of the rifle you are using you actually shot it more often and able to make better placement shots. I found this out when I was a kid and the low cost of .22lr helped. With this in mind and being in a apt and at 63 I'm tired of high powered rifles. So I bought a 10/22 and ten magazines and call it my poor man's assault rifle. At close range you can put a bunch of rounds in a good group. I need some 25 round magazines too. As mentioned the important thing is that she is enjoying shooting, enjoying being with friends and family and I'd be glad to have her family as my neighbor any day. Hopefully another NRA member. Congrats and enjoy.
 
tc, here are some of my real life experiences of mine. they are fact:

well first watch this, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEDo_PbAvJc. the 22LR CCI 40gr velocitor are amazing. checkout the "fart" from the entrance wound. the bullet went to the ten inch mark. rotate those with some hot round nose for extra penetration and you are good to go.

my real life experiences:

please don't buy a ruger 10/22 for home defense. i have a couple and they are great .22lr rifles but the malfunction rate is way too high for sd/hd. i used them for years and years but would never want to depend on them.

i finally found a couple semi auto .22lr rifles that i can depend on. the sig 522 and the s&w 15-22. buy new ones, the first models of both rifles had bugs to work out.

i own the sig 522 and my brother in law owns the 15-22. i had 4 failure to feed in the 522 within the first 3 mags shot through it. that was using wal mart federal bulk, winchester 555, cci, remington bulk, and that mexican stuff.

and that was it. over 8,000 rounds of wal mart federal bulk later my sig 522 had 0 malfunctions. except for maybe 5 or so dud rounds. quite impressive for bulk ammo. the only problem is with the black dog mags, not the 522 its self. the spring in the mags are weak and if the insides aren't lubed it will hang up sometimes resulting in no round for the rifle to feed.

thats the main reason i recommend the s&w 15-22 over the 522. the newer 15-22s are flawless and have the mags to match. i would bet my life on it. i took brother in law's 15-22 to the shooting range. it was filthy dirty. i shot two boxes of the wal mart federal bulk(550 pack) with 0 malfunctions and only one round sounded under powered but cycled fine.

the 15-22 is super fun to shoot and easy to load the mags. everyone who owns one will become an expert with it. the 25 round mags are $15 at midway. i want a 15-22 and 20 mags. it will be one of my hd firearms as well as a truck gun. tbh if i had to shoot a threat at 25 to 50 yards i would much rather the 15-22 than a handgun or shotgun. it pattern much better.

if i remember correctly the 15-22s with a "D" in the serial number are the improved ones.

i brought my s&w 22a(.22lr pistol) gator hunting last year. first two gators where around the 7 foot range. i had to shoot them through the scull 5 to 7 times with round nose before they stopped. i then put wal mart federal bulk with hollow points in the mag. it was one shot stops from then on. through the scull, not the soft spot. i do not believe the human scull or rib cage will stop a .22lr.

i would keep a little headlight with the low red light(to see sights) with the gun or maybe night sights.

the 15-22 is the hd firearm i recommended to my grand mother, great aunt, and cousin's wife.

that is all.
 
The main problem i can see with using a .22 semi-auto rifle is unreliability. Trying to clear a stoppage can take a bit of time especially if its dark.
 
Thats interesting. I have a Marlin auto (I assume one would use an auto). When cleaned and using good ammo, I don't have any problems with it. Combined with no recoil and the weapon can empty a ten round magazine on a saucer plate at 15 yards faster than I can pull the trigger.
 
.22 LR is certainly better than nothing. But nothing is a pretty easy standard to beat. If it's all she has or can handle, it's better than relying on the mercy of her attacker but there is a lot of room for improvement.
 
like i said the sig 522 and 15-22 are very reliable. as with any long gun a backup handgun is a good idea. i have no experience with the new ruger lcr 22(8 shot .22lr) but it seems like a good backup gun for her. plus it would be fun to shoot and practice. only down side is the sub 2" barrel, not sure how much penetration the .22lr would get in that case.

im actually thinking of getting this for when i don't want to ccw:
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...NAA+Mini-Master+22LRM,+4in+Barrel,+Adj.+Sight

4" barrel, .22lr to plink with, .22mag to ccw with. this naa revolver would be for backup or when i don't want to ccw my glock 19. im also thinking its great for my boat survival box incase i break down i have a .22lr to get a bird or something. i always keep 200+ .22lr rounds in that box.
 
this is where the self defense argument snowballs. someone asks about a 22 and people try to upgrade you to a larger gun. if you upgrade from a 22 to a 9mm someone will tell you you should have got a 40cal and then someone will say you need nothing less than a 45. the same goes for rifles. next will come the brand argument, you will say you have x brand and everyone will tell you they wouldn't trust their life with anything less than a y or z brand gun. then comes the cost argument. they will tell you they wouldn't trust their lives to a $200 or $300 or $500 gun and you need to spend $1000 or $2000 or..well you see where this is going.
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Except you neglect the law of deminishing returns. There is a very large difference between the 22lr and 9mm out of a carbine. While there is a measurable difference between a 9mm and a .45 cal from a Carbine, the result is more often the same. You cannot say that for a 22lr vs 9mm. As far as the cost vs quality argument, i won't address that. A 9mm hipoint carbine that is reliable works for me.

As far as to the performance of a 22lr from a rifle? See here
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1585939

The result was plenty of penetration (13-15") but fairly pitiful expansion (.028"). Since the both really are desired the 22lr isn't the best first choice. Even 9mm ball starts out bigger than the expanded 22lr and a 9mm HP only gets bigger.

Is a 22lr better than a sharp stick? Absolutely. Would I use it if it was my only firearm -- yup. If I had a choice would I pick a different firearm, yes I would.
 
Just to throw my non expert two cents in here. I once tested some of those 60 grain Aguila Super Snipers or whatever theyre called in wet phonebooks. From my Bearcat, they penetrated about 6 inches of books, yawing after about a half inch and the ensuing path looked like I had stabbed the book with a very thick bladed knife. I'd guess the dimensions of the hole at 5/16ths by an inch or so. From a 10/22, nearly identical "wound", but it went right on out the back of 10+ inches of books. I was quite impressed and I find myself keeping them in my .22s now. Not that there aren't better choices as far as armament goes, but I wouldn't feel unarmed with these.
 
A 10-22 with a 25-rd. mag of Velocitors would be far from useless as an intruder attitude-adjustor......

You may also see he well she handles a .410 shotgun....the buck and slug loads are quite effective for SD.....
 
Better then nothing and no bad guy will advance on her if she's getting constant hits in his face,neck and upper chest area with it.

About ten years ago,there was a young kid in Texas,I believe ,that repelled and killed two burgulars from his home with a lowly tube fed magazine 22 rifle.

If the kid was unarmed,it would not have gone well for him.

The bad guys were known for being real dirtbags.
 
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