.22lr Carbine for hd

Better then nothing and no bad guy will advance on her if she's getting constant hits in his face,neck and upper chest area with it.
Click to expand...

As noted above, "nothing" is an awfully low standard against which to compare something for self defense.

As for getting constant hits in the face, neck, and upper chest area, you know, we just don't seem to see that result occurring with much frequency.

Yeah, people successfully defend their homes and themselves with .22s. They have also managed the same feats with BB guns and unloaded firearms.
 
I look on it as the following...

a 12ga 2-3/4" loaded with #4 Buck (27 pellets) in my mind almost the same as the 18 shot of a Marlin 60.

As other poster indicate: First have a gun.



May I suggest an alternate? Consider the M1 Carbine with soft nose ammo and a lightly polished feed ramp to minimize stuttering. With a butt pouch attach, you can keep three 15 round magazines with it and loaded as desired, all 15 or less.

Good luck and get her to practice any time she can.
 
If what I had was a 22, I'd use a 22. My primary concern would be reliability, as 22lr tends to jam every now and then.
 
As for getting constant hits in the face, neck, and upper chest area, you know, we just don't seem to see that result occurring with much frequency.
Click to expand...

I find everyone's confidence in their marksmanship rather refreshing. We all know that anyone we want to shoot is just going to stand there and let us pump rounds into them. 20 rounds between their eyes? No problem!

Along those lines, even police officers and soldiers who train for a living with firearms do, in fact, miss. However, those of us civilians just can't miss.

Add all that to how every badguy just stops what their doing immediately the moment that first round strikes them, and a 22lr with 30 rounds sounds like a great solution. Hea, it's just like a shotgun, right?

Let's get real here. No one holds still so you can shoot them. Under stress accuracy greatly diminishes, and counting on an attacker to choose to stop attacking is instead of incapicating them is also roll of the dice I want to avoid.

Because of all of this your goal should be to stack the deck in your favor as much as possible. This includes choosing a carbine in a service caliber.
 
does anyone make a .223 home defense round? a round that won't penetrate several walls is what im talking about. low flash. ect.
 
Agree with DeShivs.
Brassfetcher website gelatin tests w. 10-22 rifle showed penetration of 12.6 in to over 16 inches with CCI Velocitor, Federal hi vel HP, and Aquila 60 gr subsonic.
These all exceed the FBI recommended minimum penetration.
 
Yeah, great penetration, but with teeny-tiny holes. Better than a sharp stick, but a 9mm, 40 or 45 carbine would make bigger holes.

With centerfire reliability.

And it would still be easy to handle. It's not a 22, but even an 8 year old could still handle it easily.

Obviously, if she doesn't want to do it, it doesn't matter. But there's no reason she can't do it.
 
Rifles have higher muzzle velocity than pistols-especially .22 rifles.
Click to expand...

The velocity gain from a long barrel is not as much as you might think. My chronograph reveals that a long rifle barrel only adds about 100 fps to the velocity achieved by a 7 inch pistol with .22 LR ammo. Once you go over 15 inches or so, the velocity actually goes back down, the powder is burned up and the rest of the barrel only tends to guide the bullet to the target. A TC Contender with a 12 inch barrel might actually have a higher muzzle velocity than a rifle with a 22 inch barrel when shooting .22LR ammo.
 
Can it work? Sure. However, if it worked reliably on a consistent basis with training and practice, you would see people who fight with guns professionally use it. The fact that you really don't see that anywhere is a good clue that there are some significant drawbacks to .22LR for that purpose.

It seems to me like your question has more to do with whether those drawbacks are severe enough that it would be better to substitute another platform for your girlfriend. Part of the answer to your question is what the two of you can afford to buy, afford to shoot, and will actually go out and shoot and become familiar with. And as you probably already know, plinking on the range is good for familiarity and weapon manipulation; but it isn't the same thing as training for a gunfight.

It is hard to answer your question because none of us are really in a position to evaluate those last factors. A .22lr rifle that she knows how to use and shoots for fun is going to be better than 20ga shotgun with buckshot that she never shoots and is uncertain how to use. You are probably in the best position to evaluate where she is at on that stuff; but look at your criteria again - if a .22LR met all of those criteria well, you'd see it used a lot more often in a lot more places.
 
.22s don`t have much stopping power. Simple fix, shoot him more times! BUT, what is safer for you and bystanders: 10 shots of 22 or 1 shot of buckshot?

Not to mention the risk to you because of the time it takes to shoot 10 times.
Same argument for almost all handgun ammo: shoot him till he falls down, or shoot him till you run out of ammo and then pistol whip him until one of you wins the fight. Or just go get shotgun with some buck.

Incidently, i have a very dear friend who I recently set up with a Ruger single six 22 for HD. Why? Because after much experimentation it is the only gun she is strong enough to cock and shoot. That`s pretty much the only reason for picking a 22 for HD. I would have preferred a 410 single shot with buck, but she coundn`t handle it.
 
First of all, no commonly available firearm will negate the risk of overpenetration. The interior walls of most modern homes and apartments are little more than pine 2x4's spaced about a foot apart and covered over with drywall. Nearly any common firearm, including a .22LR can easily penetrate two sheets of drywall.

As far as the terminal ballistics of a .22 are concerned, why not simply look at how they perform in ballistic gelatin?

http://www.brassfetcher.com/var22lrrifle.html

Now, what do we want in a self-defense bullet? Most people prefer a bullet that will expand as much as possible while still penetrating somewhere between 12" and 16" in order to ensure that it can reach the vitals of a very large attacker or one shot at an oblique angle. In the brassfetcher link, only three .22 Long Rifle loadings meet this criteria: the CCI Velocitor (13.3" penetration and .335" expansion), the Federal 36gr JHP (14.3" penetration and .308" expansion), and the Remington Golden Bullet JHP (11.9" penetration and .340" expansion). Between these three, my choice would be the CCI Velocitor as it seems to deliver the best balance of penetration and expansion.

So, how do the Velocitors stack up against other common firearms? Again looking at brassfetcher, we see that a Fiocchi .32 Auto 73gr FMJ fired from a Kel-Tec P32 penetrates slightly more than the CCI Velocitor at 13.8" but does not expand so final diameter would be approximately .311".

http://www.brassfetcher.com/Various%20.32ACP%20%28Kel-Tec%20P32%29.html

A .380 Auto 95gr FMJ, when fired from a Kel-Tec P3AT penetrates in excess of 16" but does not expand so final diameter would be approximately .355". Also, the .380 FMJ may yaw somewhat depending on the shape of the bullet (TC vs. RN).

Unless very specific organs are hit, the moderate amount of energy produced by these cartridges will have minimal, if any, effect on terminal performance. Even so, energies can be fairly easily compared. CCI advertises the Velocitor as a 40gr bullet at 1435fps for 183 ft lbs energy, Federal advertises their .380 FMJ loading as a 95gr bullet at 980fps for 203 ft lbs energy, and Fiocchi advertises their .32 Auto FMJ as a 73gr bullet at 980fps for 155 ft lbs energy.

Therefore, in just about every measurable way, the best .22 LR loading available, from a rifle, gives us performance in between that of a .32 Auto FMJ and .380 Auto FMJ.

Ballistics aside, there are other factors which must be considered as well. On the plus side, a .22 rifle is one of the very easiest firearms to shoot because both recoil and report are very mild. Also .22 Long Rifle ammunition is the least expensive available which makes high-volume practice quite affordable. Finally, quality .22 rifles are less expensive, by and large, than comparable firearms in other calibers.

The downside to a .22, besides ballistics, is reliability. The relatively long, skinny rimmed cartridge is one of the most problematic when it comes to feed reliability in a repeating firearm. The outside-lubricated heel-based bullet also presents problems in and of itself. Because the bullet lube is on the exterior of the cartridge, dirt is more attracted and the lube itself will more quickly foul the gun. Also, heel-based bullets do not seal the powder and primer from contaminants such as oil and moisture as well as inside-lubricated bullets do. Rimfire primers are more susceptible to misfire due to quality-control issues (the centrifuge that spreads the priming compound must be run for a certain amount of time to spread it evenly) than centerfire primers and, because .22LR ammo is usually marketed for non-critical applications such as plinking, target-shooting, and small game/pest control, QC issues seem to be more common.

IMHO, a .22 rifle isn't the worst possible choice as I think it would be preferable to a .22 or .25 Handgun. However, unless a more powerful centerfire gun simply is not a viable option due to recoil sensitivity or finances, I think that something more powerful and more reliable such as a pistol-caliber carbine or .410-20 gauge shotgun would be a better choice.
 
About .22LR and wall penetration, I stacked up some scrap pine 2X4 lumber to see how many a .22 would penetrate. A .22 High velocity shot out of an 18 inch barrel will go through four of them.
 
All this talk of over pentration makes my head hurt. Unless you all live in brick house all guns will penetrate. While I don't want to go sending a bunch of FMJ's around the neighborhood I'm gonna use what's best at the job and hope I don't overcome lotery like odds of hitting a bystander.

As for the .22 carbine. I'm a firm beleiver in the first rule of gunfighting is to have a gun and the caliber/cartridge comes in a VERY distant second. Most gun fights can/will be ended with anything and the rare BG's that are all tough are gonna be all tough much of the time even if hit with better calibers.

That being said ask your self what you want in your hands if you absolutly have to stop him now. I spend almost zero time thinkin about HD guns but I think I'd choose a single shot 12ga over a .22 carbine and eitehr is far from my first choice.

LK
 
sounds to me like you need a calico, 100 rounds of .22lr is nothing to be messed with:D

I only recently heard of the gun when someone from here in NJ was arrested on assult weapon charges for posessing one. after some quick research it seems like a pretty damn cool gun
 
When a .22 was what I had, it felt good. I was, and still am, very practiced and proficient.

Since those days two (maybe more) .22LR rounds have come out that improve the ballistics of the round for SD. CCI's Velocitor and the Winchester's 40 grain Hyper Speed HP. They do hit noticeably harder on flesh.
 
I can't raise any powerful objections to the idea. Better to be armed with even as few as 10 rounds of .22 lr than to be equipped with a weapon that is even more inappropriate.

I'd much rather see her armed with a better, harder hitting choice, for example, any 9mm or .30 caliber carbine.

Would you fire a .22 lr at a rottweiler, pit bull, coyote, or even black bear, and expect it to disable that animal? if not, why would you expect it to work on a human? Any large mammal would require probably between 5-10 solid body shots with .22 lr to incapacitate, except in the very best case scenarios.

That is my objection. If heart/lung/vital nerve centers are missed, a .22 will not cause enough damage and trauma to put the bad guy into shock or bleed him out quickly.

Another consideration is reliability. Rimfire ammo has a tendency to fail. .22 rifles, in my experience, tend to jam. you can't allow that.

Speaking plainly, will she die tomorrow just because you put a 10-22 in her closet? Not likely. Will she survive a gunfight with a 10-22? Most likely.

Would her chances of survival, and the chances of her two children be better if she had 14 rounds of good 9mm ammo at her disposal? I'm pretty sure that they would be.

Now, analyze how much risk you are willing to take with her life, and the lives of her children.
 
I am a little bit irritated that everyone expects an intruder to ignore that someone is armed with a firearm and shooting at him. I am no expert but I believe the average intruder will prefer to leave as quick as possible as soon as he detects resistance with the potential of death and not investigate what caliber is flying around him.
If you have an intruder that ignores that fact you have a major problem that I believe will not be solved with a major handgun cartrige. In that situation I would hope to have a major rifle cartrige firearm in my hand.

7
 
7-

At that point you are hoping that the person attacking you chooses to not continue to attack. I, for one, want to take all elements of choice out of the equation if I can.

Lots of gunfire sounds the same when your on the receiving end. If you miss, the intruder may say "fudge this noise" and leave. Goal met, but by his choice, not yours.

If you hit with a small round the likelihood of an immediately incapicating injury is low. At that point you are hoping he again says "fudge this noise" and chooses to leave. Goal met, but at his choice.

The larger the round you put into an intruder (all other things being equal) the more likely he will be unable to make the choice to continue.

With handguns there is a constant compromise between caliber, weight, size, recoil, and capacity. Since we're talking carbines here almost all of that is moot.
A 22lr carbine isn't much heavier than a 9mm, 5.7, or 30 carbine platform. While there is more recoil they are all very manageable for almost everyone. Size is again similar since they all have 16" or larger barrels. All of these carry enough rounds to defend yourself.

Since almost everything with these carbines is equal (except cost) there is no compelling argument to pick a 22lr for anyone who is not über recoil sensitive.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top