erikrichard
New member
A shot to the forehead with a .22lr won't stop much of anything? I'd like to hear some real life stories of that, got any?
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
22 for self defense?
- Thread starter reptocarl
- Start date
sigarms228
New member
As it happened, he was an expert shot with it, and could "burst fire" and cut the eyes out of a silhouette target in about one second. His reasoning was that if nerve/brain damage from the bullets didn't stop someone, blinding them ought to at least slow them down...
That's great for a stationary target that is not trying to kill you.
Bongo Boy:
Don't underestimate the lowly little .22 LR. Way back in post #13 I provided a link to a school shooting which happened a few towns over. The kid used a Ruger MK II and killed three, all with head shots. He emptied a magazine (10 shots) and the three dead all sustained a single gunshot wound to the head. A fourth is paralyzed for life but alive today.
In another local shooting a person was tired of vandalism on his property. He was awakened by vandals and fired a single shot from a .22 LR rifle hitting one of the kids in the neck. Real dead and real quick but not quiote a head shot. With the Chardon, Ohio school shooting all were head shots and all were dead within 3 days despite all of what modern medicine has.
There is no shortage of dead people as a result of the lowly .22 LR. Finding data to support that is relatively easy.
Ron
Right. Of course. Because we all know that.
What a friggin' goofball. Good luck living in the Real World, pal. Unlikely a 22 to the 'heart or forehead' will stop much of anything but your vivid imagination.
Don't underestimate the lowly little .22 LR. Way back in post #13 I provided a link to a school shooting which happened a few towns over. The kid used a Ruger MK II and killed three, all with head shots. He emptied a magazine (10 shots) and the three dead all sustained a single gunshot wound to the head. A fourth is paralyzed for life but alive today.
In another local shooting a person was tired of vandalism on his property. He was awakened by vandals and fired a single shot from a .22 LR rifle hitting one of the kids in the neck. Real dead and real quick but not quiote a head shot. With the Chardon, Ohio school shooting all were head shots and all were dead within 3 days despite all of what modern medicine has.
There is no shortage of dead people as a result of the lowly .22 LR. Finding data to support that is relatively easy.
Ron
thibaultfelix40
New member
I always thought that a clip of 22lr is equivalent to a load of buckshot.
Old Bill Dibble
New member
F Shot, except moving faster, with a bullet designed for penetration and low deformation.
Years ago, I read an analysis which stated that real-world results indicate a load of buckshot is greater than the sum of its parts. The theory to explain this was that all the projectiles impacting simultaneously created sort of a trauma overload that wouldn't be encountered if the projectile impacts were spaced in time.I always thought that a clip of 22lr is equivalent to a load of buckshot.
That aside, comparing buckshot to .22LR is sort of difficult.
As OBD notes, it compares most closely in size to F shot which is .22" in diameter. However, F shot is only about 16gr per pellet--a lot lighter than a .22LR bullet. And if you assume a 1oz load of shot, that would amount to 27 pellets which is more than a typical .22LR mag holds.
#1 buck is a better match in terms of weight and pellet count. It weighs between 40 & 41 gr per pellet and there are about 11 pellets per oz. But the pellet diameter is 0.3" which is obviously larger than a .22LR bullet.
The beauty of the .22 is the cost of ammo and high fun factor of shooting it.
A .22 pistol is easy to shoot and shoot a lot.
My club has a row of bowling pin silhouettes at 10yds that you knock down and reset with a rope.
With my Ruger SR22, I have to hit the top of the pin to knock it down...a golf ball sized target. I find it great fun to run that row, knocking down each pin with one shot, and I'm pretty fast. Rapid firing a mag dump into a half-dollar size group at 7yds is easy and done in seconds. At the same time, a 10" steel plate at 40yds is easy pickings.
That SR22 has had a couple thousand rounds through it without a single FTF or jam.
There are several .22's with known combat credentials, most famously the Beretta 71. I have one, and it is an outstanding shooter, certainly capable of living up to its reputation.
When I was young, and off to college and living off campus, I had my Ruger Standard model .22 pistol, and I felt pretty well armed.
With the .22, tactics of employment becomes more important, beginning with situational awareness.
Combat is a case of first-est with the most-est, and if firstest is five .22 Velocitors in the right place in a second and a half, you just might win.
A .22 pistol is easy to shoot and shoot a lot.
My club has a row of bowling pin silhouettes at 10yds that you knock down and reset with a rope.
With my Ruger SR22, I have to hit the top of the pin to knock it down...a golf ball sized target. I find it great fun to run that row, knocking down each pin with one shot, and I'm pretty fast. Rapid firing a mag dump into a half-dollar size group at 7yds is easy and done in seconds. At the same time, a 10" steel plate at 40yds is easy pickings.
That SR22 has had a couple thousand rounds through it without a single FTF or jam.
There are several .22's with known combat credentials, most famously the Beretta 71. I have one, and it is an outstanding shooter, certainly capable of living up to its reputation.
When I was young, and off to college and living off campus, I had my Ruger Standard model .22 pistol, and I felt pretty well armed.
With the .22, tactics of employment becomes more important, beginning with situational awareness.
Combat is a case of first-est with the most-est, and if firstest is five .22 Velocitors in the right place in a second and a half, you just might win.
Last edited:
You ^^^ think your the first one in this thread to suggest that?
No, I don't think that. I was merely answering the OP's question. He asked for "all" of our opinions.
edit: Thanks to the mods for editing my rather rash reply to the fellow that felt the need to belittle me for my reply. Apologies to all....
Last edited:
????? A clip??? Do you mean a magazine?I always thought that a clip of 22lr is equivalent to a load of buckshot.
__________________
????? A clip??? Do you mean a magazine?
Yes, I imagine he means a magazine. Get over it. I know a few folks who load clips into their automatic 1911s. That isn't correct terminology, but they are good members of the shooting community. We all know what they're talking about. What difference does it make?
Since I actually read (and understood) the OP, I will answer...
Your insinuating that until you came along, no one in this thread was smart enough to actually read or understand the OP. Anyway, sounds like you had some words for me that didn't make it to the thread, have at it, the floor is yours with the last word.
aarondhgraham
New member
What vehemence this thread has generated,,,
My but what vehemence this thread has generated.
When are we going to get angry over the pistol vs. revolver names?
Aarond
.
My but what vehemence this thread has generated.
When are we going to get angry over the pistol vs. revolver names?
Aarond
.
thibaultfelix40
New member
I have shot a lot of critters with a 22. They all dropped or ran off. I have been around on both sides when somebody showed a 22 and won an argument right there. Now isn't this what a defensive weapon is for?
While the mere display of a .22 caliber pistol may stop an attack, most defensive carry instructors suggest a heavier caliber...I'd agree...and add that I feel a 9mm is the minimum. And while I do carry a .380 S&W Bodyguard when clothing choices mandate maximum concealment, I know that it's a less than optimum choice for stopping an in-progress attack. Rod
shootbrownelk
New member
I would imagine that most deer that are poached are killed with a .22 LR. Also, 9 out of 10 mafia hit men recommend a .22 for a quick dispatch.
Bongo Boy- your post is also very irresponsible. You make it sound as if a .22 is a toy. It isn't.
Well, I certainly don't want to be irresponsible and don't want to imply any firearm is a toy. My point was really that equating a shot to the forehead or heart with .22 LR to the same shot to the same locaton with a .44 Magnum as 'equivalent' is absurd. I'm pretty sure anyone asked to shop-vac up the result in either case would have to agree.
If that isn't 'absurd' in your view and experience, that's fine. I have no experience shooting anything at all that needed killing with either caliber, and don't expect to. I also don't expect a 22 LR shot to the sternum of an adrenalinized human to do much of anything at all. That's my expectation. I don't expect a .22 LR shot to the forehead of a meth'ed out human to be anywhere near as effective as a similar shot from a .44 Mag.
Those are my expectations. I don't think the outcome of a .22 LR to heavily bone-protected areas of a realistic human threat to be 'the same as' the result of a .44 mag to the same threat.
My opinion is not that 22 LR as your only self defense option is useless or the equivalent of using a toy for self defense. I'm suggesting that to assume 'shot placement is all that matters' is going over the top in ridiculous presumptions.
As for the notion that brandishing a firearm and warding off an attacker proves the presence of a firearm is just as valuable as actually using one...and therefore a .22 can be as effective as any other caliber...well fine. If you're of the mind you're going to draw a weapon when you're not already certain you need to fire it, I really have to wonder about the scenario and what the thinking is.
I do assume I only draw the weapon when a threat has to be stopped with lethal force. I dunno...am I out there? I'm not interested in how badly the threat is 'hurt'...I'm interested in whether the threat is stopped. The question the OP had was "if all I have is .22 LR, what's the best bullet". That is a totally fair, reasonable question. Nothing to do with whether .22 LR is equivalent to .44 Mag under any circumstances.
Last edited:
I do assume I only draw the weapon when someone has to be stopped with lethal force. I dunno...am I out there?
Well in the event that an attacker changes his mind and turns tail when he sees you draw I'm sure none of us would shoot him in the back regardless of what caliber our CCW is.
Counting on displaying your CCW to have an effect on your attacker isn't unreasonable, however depending on that display to end the threat is definitely ill advised.
My opinion is not that 22 LR as your only self defense option is useless or the equivalent of using a toy for self defense (well, yea, it is).
Is this just sarcasm or something calling a .22 a useless toy, or did I completely misread this?
I wonder what the OP decided to do.