22 for self defense?

Is this just sarcasm or something calling a .22 a useless toy, or did I completely misread this?
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No that was a complete typo on my part...corrected in the post.

Naturally I can't imagine all real world scenarios I just haven't imagined one where drawing and firing don't happen at the same time. What I mean is, I simply haven't imagined a scenario where I'm drawing and threat is already evading as I've presented the weapon.

I can see that's totally reasonable...and that would be a great thing. Especially reasonable in the colder months when, in reality, it would take me more time to find my weapon and draw it from under 12 layers of stuff than it would take the bad guy to realize I'm going for a weapon and be halfway down the street.

Good point.
 
What I mean is, I simply haven't imagined a scenario where I'm drawing and threat is already evading as I've presented the weapon.
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You should definitely consider this as a possible outcome. You shouldn't COUNT on it happening, but you definitely need to think about the possibility. Something like 90% of successful self-defense gun uses do not involve a shot being fired precisely because this kind of response is common.

You certainly don't want to get in the mode of thinking that anytime you have to pull your gun you should automatically shoot no matter what happens.
 
Hello JohnKSa,,,

You certainly don't want to get in the mode of thinking that anytime you have to pull your gun you should automatically shoot no matter what happens.
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I agree completely with you in this,,,
But many feel that to do otherwise opens you up to a charge of "brandishing".

I know it sounds paranoid to think this way,,,
But I have read several accounts of a zealous DA doing just that.

Aarond

.
 
Being charged with brandishing in a situation where pulling a gun stops a life threatening attack is not likely. Shooting after the attack has stopped to prevent being charged with brandishing is wrong any way you spin it.
 
aarondhgraham said:
...I know it sounds paranoid to think this way,,,
But I have read several accounts of a zealous DA doing just that....
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Hogwash.

If you want to see any DA, not just a zealous, make your life miserable, just shoot after the threat is over and there's no need to shoot. Or maybe you'll have a chance to bunk with Jerome Ersland, the Oklahoma pharmacist who kept shooting and is now serving a life sentence for murder.
 
While I don't consider the .22 my go-to for home defense, if power factor can be augmented with COOL factor, I think this guy would stand a chance. :cool:

ppk.jpg
 
I know it sounds paranoid to think this way,,,
But I have read several accounts of a zealous DA doing just that.
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If the situation justifies the use of deadly force then pulling a gun would also be justified. If pulling the gun resolves the situation then firing would not be justified. HOWEVER, pulling the gun would still be justified since at the time it was pulled, the defender would have not only been justified in displaying the gun but also in firing it.

DA's have a significant amount of latitude in who they prosecute and who they don't. It's always possible that a DA might choose to prosecute even in a situation where the defender is justified.
 
First, the .22LR is an excellent home defense round. I know a guy who was shot by one from a pistol from just a little more than a mile away. He said it felt like he was stung by a huge wasp. He was working on his house at the time and barely got down his ladder before losing consciousness. He woke up in the hospital and the doctor told him he had nearly died during surgery. Two kids had fired the bullet that injured him. No one ever caught them, but that little lead bullet had entered his back and had to be traced via x-ray u until they could locate and remove it.

The two great things about the .22LR round are that they are accurate and can fill the air with a lot of lead.
 
First, the .22LR is an excellent home defense round.
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I think if your home is under attack by rabbits, squirrels, or other similar sized dangerous animals .22LR would be an excellent choice. It might work for human attackers as well. Heaven knows plenty of people have been killed using 22LR. That doesn't mean it is a good choice for home defense though. I understand using a 22LR if that's all you have, but given a choice why would you?
 
If I had to charge across a house-sized distance and bonk someone over the head with tire iron, a Buckmark would be one of the last pistols I'd want to see in the guys hands. It means I'm very likely to be hit, probably multiple times. And heaven forbid the guy should have a bit of skill with the thing.

I'd much, much rather he had any center-fire pocket pistol at all -- preferably one with a long, heavy DAO trigger in as large a chambering as possible.

I know this answers a slightly different question than the one everyone else was answering. But sometimes it helps to look at the same scenario from a slightly different perspective.

I like velocitors, btw, assuming they work in your gun. It's a full 40gr bullet designed for limited expansion, pushed at the maximum possible velocity -- result is very useful penetration. Standard excellent ignition reliability from CCI.

https://youtu.be/pFsDDgztf50
 
The Israelis air marshals used the Beretta Model 71 .22 pistol to good effect for anti-hijacking purposes.

One of those chaps used his to kill two terrorists one time when they attempted to jack the plane. I don't remember all the details, but he spoke highly of the weapon.

Indeed, a .22 is more lethal than some give it credit for. It would not be my first choice for HD or carry work, but it has some advantages such as minimal recoil for rapid follow up shots and with proper placement I do think it would be effective when using 40 grain warm solids.

Basically, I carry other options but I wouldn't feel unarmed carrying a "duecey deuce".
 
If I had to charge across a house-sized distance and bonk someone over the head with tire iron, a Buckmark would be one of the last pistols I'd want to see in the guys hands. It means I'm very likely to be hit, probably multiple times. And heaven forbid the guy should have a bit of skill with the thing.

I'd much, much rather he had any center-fire pocket pistol at all-- preferably one with a long, heavy DAO trigger in as large a chambering as possible.
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Is a hit with a 22LR better than a miss with a 45ACP? Sure, though let's remember that there's a difference between being shot and being out of a fight (your intruder dying 5 minutes after he kills you isn't a lot of consolation to you personally). I'd also add that if you can't make a hit at a house sized distance (I'm assuming you mean across a room) with a 9mm or similar I'm a bit doubtful about your ability to get a meaningful hit with a 22LR. I've introduced a fair number of people to shooting. I've yet to encounter someone that was Annie Oakley with a 22 LR pistol but turned into a stormtrooper when given a 9mm or higher. There often is a discrepancy in terms of ease of hits in getting that person used to recoil, but even one afternoon of shooting can usually overcome that problem to an extent.

For that matter you're talking about comparing a Buckmark sized pistol to a pocket pistol in "as large a chambering as possible". Something the equivalent size of a Buckmark in 9mm or above isn't that hard to shoot. I get that you're trying to say many of these pocket pistols are very hard to shoot and I don't disagree. But those pistols have a very set purpose and the people buying them have to be aware of that (and we could argue that some aren't in fact aware of that). If I compare the towing capacity of a fullsize pickup truck to that of a compact car it's pretty obvious which has the advantage, but you have to ask yourself if that comparison is valid.

The comparison you're doing here is looking at both size and caliber at the same time when the reality is going to a larger caliber than 22LR does not require you to use a pocket pistol. This type of comparison kind of skews the results.

The Israelis air marshals used the Beretta Model 71 .22 pistol to good effect for anti-hijacking purposes.

One of those chaps used his to kill two terrorists one time when they attempted to jack the plane. I don't remember all the details, but he spoke highly of the weapon.
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I've seen people of skill notably better than mine do some amazing things too. That said I tend to make recommendations based on what the average person might be able to do and what might make his/her life easier. I'd also hope most of us aren't under the threat of decompression from overpenetration when using our personal firearms, though if we are frangible ammunition is an option.
 
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As unpopular as it is, I regularly pocket carry a Taurus PT22PLY. Especially during the summer months. 14 ounces loaded with 9 rounds is nice. I figure that if 9 rounds COM in less than 5 seconds doesn't stop an attacker, it was my fault I got myself into such a situation. Then I'd go for the second mag. I use 40 grain solid CCI Mini Mags, and have shot 500+ rounds without a failure of any kind.
 
If I can't get to my carry guns in my bedroom, I have an LCR 22lr in the safe in the basement loaded with CCI Mini Mag 36gr hp. It'll do in a pinch.
 
Going a little dark on this post here but this is personal experience.

I met a guy who was shot in the head with a 32 ACP at a gun shop once. He literally had no idea the guy shot him. The bullet skimmed around his skull and exited just above his ear. The skull is definitely tough if hit right.

As for the dark and unfortunate part of this post...

I met this guy in high school my freshmen year. It was tough adjusting but he helped me quite a bit. We became pretty good friends that year. He seemed like a great guy.

After he graduated I heard that he had some mental problems. Schizophrenia, depression, couple other issues if I recall correctly. I had no idea at the time but I knew he seemed bothered sometimes. Mostly seemed normal, though.

Shortly after he graduated (can't remember how long exactly but it was within 2 years) he was at my house hanging out with another friend. Seemed perfectly fine, but I guess he was having quite a few issues at that point. His medication wasn't working as well as it should have been and unfortunately it was becoming too much for him to deal with. A few days later when his parents were out he decided it was too much to deal with anymore.

He snuck into the neighbors house and found a .22 rifle. I believe it was a Ruger 10/22. He had access to it for hunting sometimes so the neighbors thought nothing of it. They loaned it to him often over the years.

He went home afterwards and sat on a waterbed, put the barrel between his eyes, and pulled the trigger. The round bounced around in his skull a little and did significant damage.

His cause of death was ruled asphyxiation due to the waterbed. Without it he would have likely lived. He technically drowned.

This was a pretty perfect headshot and he wasn't killed by it directly and that has really opened my eyes to caliber choice. I personally won't go below 380 because of these two experiences. I don't own below a 9mm for self defense. My 10/22 is strictly for playing around with when I'm bored.

A 22 WILL do the trick but it's not clean, quick, or painless. I personally won't use it because regardless of what someone tries to do to me... they shouldn't suffer. I want to stop the threat and if they need stopped then a .22 just doesn't do it efficiently enough or humanely enough for my liking. As others have said it'll work but I'd rather a 9mm or higher.
 
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