2 men attempt strongarm robbery on CCW

Some information for JohnKSa in relation to the shooter leaving the scene.
The information at this time is that as he was driving away he was one his cell phone with the 911 dispatcher. He asked where the police were and then was informed they were already inbound and nearby. At that point he returned to the scene.

Otherwise the point you raise about just leaving the scene being a sticking point, is quite valid.
 
Calling the cops ASAP was definitely a good choice. Can't fault him there and clearly the authorities didn't have a problem with his actions.
 
That's just 5-6 blocks NE up Wayne Ave. from where I lived when I went to school at Dayton 35 years ago. And, it wasn't a great neighborhood then!

Personally, I never get out of the car w/o the weapon on the hip. But, I can see where in that state where you can't carry into an alcohol retailer that could cause an issue.
 
It appears that the Castle doctrine will apply since the BG was trying to pull him out of his car when he shot. The posts on FB from the BGs buddy are, well, enlightening.
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As his favorite movies listed on FB, Scarface, Godfather etc..
 
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Only my 2nd rate armchair QB'ing but...

Though obviously unintentional, driving away* may have been a good thing for everyone on scene. Notice how all the witnesses were scrambling during and after the incident. They have no idea what is what or who is who. All they know is that one guy shot another guy. The victim/CCW'er might have caused even more panic had he remained on scene.

*Reporting the incident while driving...

Edit : Remain on scene or leave...Good topic?
 
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Remain on scene or leave...Good topic?
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I think he did well by leaving. There was still one attacker at large, going into the store could have just brought the fight inside where there were innocent bystanders. If you don't feel safe, leave and call 911, which is exactly what he did. I wouldn't stick around trying to hold the second bad guy at gunpoint, not knowing if he might have a gun too or more friends on the way.
 
Does anyone else notice that Billy Bob says something derogatory on his FB page and the victim isn't even black? Shows how absolutely ignorant he is.
 
I'd say that you need to either remain on the scene or immediately contact police (911) and indicate that you don't feel safe staying so you are leaving the scene.

What you don't want to do is make it seem like you're trying to avoid the authorities. You also want something on record (like a 911 recording) to indicate why you left the scene.
 
Edit : Remain on scene or leave...Good topic?
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In this case it fits in with what he was doing when things became physical. He left the area as what had happened was another attacker joined in.

You could consider expanding that important question to what to do after the last shots are fired? Stay, go, securing yourself and others etc.

Leaving might have been a good way to check himself for any wounds in the safety of the car. It wouldn't be out of the question in this particular circumstance to check for stab wounds or even small fingernail cuts. In the initial physical altercation his adrenaline dump might have caused him to not notice any injuries.

Using the scenario of when dogs attack you would try and get yourself to a doctor/hospital to have a series of shots if you have been bitten.

That is an important point you have raised of what to do immediately afterwards.
 
you guys don't completely let your guard down when a woman approaches you, right? that's like the oldest trick in the book.
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I had a situation recently that underlined this point exactly.

I pulled in to a truck stop at 3am to get gas. It is a place I've stopped before and felt comfortable. (I'm now working the over night shift. So, on my days off I'm up when the world is asleep. Getting gas at 2 or 3am, for me, is like you getting it at 5 or 6pm.)

Looking at the parking lot from where I stood, there is a restaurant at five o'clock, a parking lot with vehicles at four o'clock, the gas station is at twelve o'clock.

A girl aproached from a cluster of vehicles at about three o'clock. She appeared to be a homeless drug addict. Here face was broke out, she was wearing a thick "hoodie" in 80 degree weather, her hair was greasy, her lips were chapped, and she appeared very tired or high.

She began tellng me a story as she aproached my vehicle. The story was simple and short. However, I knew that the few details were dead wrong. I told her I had no cash and couldn't help her. She stated "it don't have to be cash, just pay for my gas." At that point she began to come around the hood of the car. I told her again that I had nothing for her and added that she needed to leave me alone. She left and headed back through the cars.

As I was finishing up a guy aproached from behind the gas station and started heading my way. When he was about 16 or 17 yards away he called out. I was polite and said hello, but I purposely added a little bass and volume.

To make a long story short, she was a ploy. When I was firm with her the male acomplice tried his luck. When I was firm with him she started aproaching from the four o'clock position. Her intent was to bash me over the head with a tire iron. I ended up pulling my revolver. The situation ended with no shots and no injuries. I was cleared and they are still awaiting trial.

The point is that sometimes the woman is a ruse. She can be an acomplice, an attacker, or anything else a man can. So, don't be fooled because they are female.
 
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JohnKSa said:
I suspect the fact that there were multiple attackers in this case clarified the situation.
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Well, I can think of several multiple attacker cases where the gun owner was clearly attacked by multple men; but still prosecuted when he shot (including the Gerald Ung case which also had video). Of course, the big difference in those cases were that the attackers in those cases did not have the extensive history of aggravated assault and robbery that these two apparently have. I'm sure when the CCW reported them doing something that was exactly like what they had both already been arrested for, it added to his credibility.

I think if this had been the same scenario; but the attackers were, say two local high school football guys with no serious criminal record looking for some adrenaline-fueld adventure, I think the shooter would probably be in a tougher legal scenario.

Doc Intrepid said:
While the fact was already stated better in the linked thread, the statements made by others on the thug's FB page really do reflect a bizarre mind-set...
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Yes, I like how one of the friends of the thugs implies on Facebook that the shooter is weak and/or dishonorable for using a gun. Apparently she doesn't have any problem with two grown men teaming up on one man to rob him. The mindset there is totally foreign...

And in general, I think it is a good reminder that a lot of times the threat doesn't just disappear after a successful self-defense shooting. The shooter lives in the same area as his attackers and they are already making threats and talking tough. It is a good example to us all that we need to keep our heads in the game and not assume that the threat is over just because the first fight went our way.

Nitesites said:
Edit : Remain on scene or leave...Good topic?
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I think it is situational. You don't want to look like you are running away. Apparently the shooter got on the phone to 911 immediately and explained he didn't feel safe remaining there, which I think helped him. And I think staying would have been difficult - you've got at least two attackers, possibly more, you've got bystanders who don't know who is the good guy or bad guy. If he had shot the other attacker after he fled would we be discussing whether the immediate threat had ended?

In this situation, I think it was probably a good move. I don't know that I would try to make it SOP though.
 
I've been in a similar situation. My "tactic" was to immediately replace the gas nozzle, go around to the passenger side of the car, putting the car between myself and the individual, who eventually lost interest and moved on.

Diffusing a situation and avoiding escalation with intoxicated individuals is an art that rarely requires pistolcraft.

Interesting observation... crack actually saved Turner's (the attacker's) life.
 
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Two comments:

1. I would have left too - no question about it, and then reported it.

2. The victim hesitated too long to get his gun out of the console. Way too long. I was in a similar situation - had my gun in the glove box of my car in a Home Depot parking lot. I was walking back to my car and noticed a man lingering around next to the driver side door to my car - he had his urban friends sitting in a running car waiting for him. The guy was urinating, but also looking in the window of my car. When I saw what he was doing. I told him to go ahead and finish. But, I immediately opened my passenger door and grabbed my gun. Put it in my pocket, but my hand never left that gun until he was away from my car. That was too close for comfort - gun goes with me if I'm going into any store at night now.

I like to keep my gun in my car sometimes while I'm pumping gas. But, I make sure that it is easily accessible and I always look around for signs of trouble. If I even think someone might approach me for whatever reason, the gun immediately goes in my pocket (if its not already there.) In the scenario at the gas station, as soon as I would have spotted the crackhead, I would have gone for my gun. I couldn't figure out why the guy waited so long.
 
Basic streetsmarts

As you can see from my signature, I'm a native of NYC.

It's said that NY'ers won't give you the time of day. That might be because we learned early on that a guy who asks you for the time may just be checking to see if you have a watch worth stealing (or worse).

I also learned early on that when approached by a stranger, no matter how innocent it may seem, it pays to look around and see if he has a partner (accomplice).
 
"Don't use PowRBall"
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I hope at least he got a winning ticket. Anything at least to make that visit worthwhile.

I just don't gas up at night. Not anywhere, including when I am traveling. I time my last fill-up before sundown and always in a busy station. Gas stations and ATMs are both mugger magnets. You are a captive to your task. You cannot leave until you finish the task and you are a ready victim while you are performing it. In the case of ATMs, the mugger is almost certainly guaranteed to get money too.
 
Secguru: You are captive to nothing. If you live in an area where you are scared to fill up your gas tank after sundown, you might want to consider moving.
 
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