I agree with you. These people are going to what if theirselves to death.
147 grain 9mm smack down
- Thread starter Super-Dave
- Start date
I agree with you. These people are going to what if theirselves to death.
Wreck-n-Crew
New member
Have to agree to an extent and i avoided this thread because there is enough going around about caliber vs caliber comparisons.
The way i see it is when you try to max out the weight of a particular a caliber like the 9mm and have it slow down to the velocity of a 45 acp, your trying to mimic a .45 in a smaller diameter that may have a better effect in a +p round in a +p gun getting closer to the same effect as the 45, but not close enough to be considered "the 9mm answer to the 45 alternative" so that someone can say "i changed ammo and it makes my gun the same effectively as this other gun and mine carry's more rounds and that makes my gun better" argument.
Talking about splitting hairs to look for blood, to drop in the water, to attract a particular shark, that lost it's tag, or so someone said.Madness.
<<<can you do that? dunno
LockedBreech
New member
The initial response by the user "noyes" was absolute garbage. Not only are there a number of truly excellent 147-loads available now - to the point that it's what I prefer in 9mm - but his statement that:
"I will now tell you the best 9mm Luger load for self-defense: it is the Cor-Bon 9mm 115 grain +P Jacketed Hollowpoint."
is very inaccurate for the simple reason that there is no 'best' round for self-defense right now, in any major service caliber.
There are simply too many awesome choices. Federal, Speer, Remington, and Winchester, among others, all produce excellent designs that perform well and consistently . The HST, Gold Dot, Golden Saber, and Ranger-T are wonderful rounds that are proven over and over, and they are only a small sample of the excellent selection on the market. I trusted the 147-grain Ranger-T and the 147-grain Speer Gold Dot enough to - after thorough reliability tests - recommend them to friends of mine who were buying a pistol to defend their families. I wanted a super easy recoiling round that was still potent, and my friends put these proven rounds in the X-ring with almost no practice.
Find a round that shoots well, and accurately, in your pistol, and you can almost never go wrong now. Even the "older" rounds like Federal Hydra-Shok and Winchester Silvertip are solid performers for the most part, though I wouldn't recommend them in a 147-grain 9mm.
There are very few JHP rounds sold now that are truly "bad" choices. I carry Speer Gold Dot in my weapons because it's effective, quality-controlled, and easy to find. I would just as happily snag a box of Golden Saber, HST, or Ranger-T if they fed well in the particular weapon I was shopping for. I stick with Gold Dot for the sole reason that I'm too cheap to try out the feeding quality of a new round when the one I'm using now works.
"I will now tell you the best 9mm Luger load for self-defense: it is the Cor-Bon 9mm 115 grain +P Jacketed Hollowpoint."
is very inaccurate for the simple reason that there is no 'best' round for self-defense right now, in any major service caliber.
There are simply too many awesome choices. Federal, Speer, Remington, and Winchester, among others, all produce excellent designs that perform well and consistently . The HST, Gold Dot, Golden Saber, and Ranger-T are wonderful rounds that are proven over and over, and they are only a small sample of the excellent selection on the market. I trusted the 147-grain Ranger-T and the 147-grain Speer Gold Dot enough to - after thorough reliability tests - recommend them to friends of mine who were buying a pistol to defend their families. I wanted a super easy recoiling round that was still potent, and my friends put these proven rounds in the X-ring with almost no practice.
Find a round that shoots well, and accurately, in your pistol, and you can almost never go wrong now. Even the "older" rounds like Federal Hydra-Shok and Winchester Silvertip are solid performers for the most part, though I wouldn't recommend them in a 147-grain 9mm.
There are very few JHP rounds sold now that are truly "bad" choices. I carry Speer Gold Dot in my weapons because it's effective, quality-controlled, and easy to find. I would just as happily snag a box of Golden Saber, HST, or Ranger-T if they fed well in the particular weapon I was shopping for. I stick with Gold Dot for the sole reason that I'm too cheap to try out the feeding quality of a new round when the one I'm using now works.
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seeker_two
New member
I've seen some all-copper 90gr. HP loads lately that get that fast and still hit the 12" mark in penetration. Interesting stuff....
Wreck-n-Crew,
I think most people will acknowledge that .45 > 9mm, if we look only at what the rounds do upon impact with a body. It's slightly better, viewed only in that weigh. There are other factors that need to be considered, though.
1. The 147gr is very controllable. This matters, when you shoot at realistic defensive speed.
2. Percussion is a very big difference. Discharging a .45 without hearing protection is a totally different experience, even outdoors. Doing it in a hallway, parking garage, etc would be horrible. This gets ignored a lot.
3. Capacity.
A 9mm 147gr is a round that performs similarly to the .45, is easier to control, is less likely to jack up your ears, and allows you to carry more of it. I'm good with that.
I think most people will acknowledge that .45 > 9mm, if we look only at what the rounds do upon impact with a body. It's slightly better, viewed only in that weigh. There are other factors that need to be considered, though.
1. The 147gr is very controllable. This matters, when you shoot at realistic defensive speed.
2. Percussion is a very big difference. Discharging a .45 without hearing protection is a totally different experience, even outdoors. Doing it in a hallway, parking garage, etc would be horrible. This gets ignored a lot.
3. Capacity.
A 9mm 147gr is a round that performs similarly to the .45, is easier to control, is less likely to jack up your ears, and allows you to carry more of it. I'm good with that.
micromontenegro
New member
MLeake beat me to it. .45 ACP report is normally much milder than 9mm, comparing "comparable" loads.
People are not ballistics gel. They are not buttons, cell phones, and in the important area of shooting (lungs and heart) they have this pesky thing called a rib cage.
Gel tests are fine for seeing how one design compares to another on a apples to apples basis and how you design is either improving or not working as well as you thought.
While I am not a fan of 147 because I think it move too slow and does not expander reliably in real wold, it is effective (and sighting information form the 90s is useless as the state of the art changes rapidly these days and thats like looking at rocks in the year 0. )
Any modern SD ammo gives you the best chance. None are guaranteed man stopper (even a 44 magnum) unless you Get lucky and take out the heart, brain or sever a spine.
I like Remington GS 127 gr because they are good stuff, they were inexpensive compare d the rest and I could shoot it and the Sig loved em.
Gel tests are fine for seeing how one design compares to another on a apples to apples basis and how you design is either improving or not working as well as you thought.
While I am not a fan of 147 because I think it move too slow and does not expander reliably in real wold, it is effective (and sighting information form the 90s is useless as the state of the art changes rapidly these days and thats like looking at rocks in the year 0. )
Any modern SD ammo gives you the best chance. None are guaranteed man stopper (even a 44 magnum) unless you Get lucky and take out the heart, brain or sever a spine.
I like Remington GS 127 gr because they are good stuff, they were inexpensive compare d the rest and I could shoot it and the Sig loved em.
I never hear the bang when I am hunting (sans ear protection back in the day). It may factor in with some and not others but I doubt seriously the ban between a 124 9mm and a 44 magnum is going to make any difference, you either are affected by it and it matters not or you aren't and it matters not as well.
I am not a fan of standard pressure 147 gr. JHP loads, either. Whoever told the OP that they were superior to excellent 124 gr +P loads like the Gold Dot was mistaken. The 124 gr. Gold Dot +P or the Ranger 127 gr. +P+ have an edge in both energy and momentum which pretty much ends any argument concerning the various expert factions on wound ballistics. When you have both higher energy and momentum the energy and momentum act on the bullet to provide expansion while momentum is the larger factor in penetration.
There is a way to hedge all bets, though. That would be with a 147 gr. JHP +P load that provides enough velocity to ensure expansion while still providing excellent penetration.
There is a way to hedge all bets, though. That would be with a 147 gr. JHP +P load that provides enough velocity to ensure expansion while still providing excellent penetration.
bluetopper
New member
My main concern is hitting the "X" ring at 25yards. My reloaded 147gr cast lead bullets do the trick for me out of my 9mm 1911's.
Seems everyone here is obsessed with trying to kill somebody.
My handguns are for my entertainment and enjoyment.
Seems everyone here is obsessed with trying to kill somebody.
My handguns are for my entertainment and enjoyment.
I must admit that in nearly every case, mine are also. That is why I tend to make the weapons I like to shoot work for me as home defense weapons rather than spend my time trying to learn to like to shoot weapons that were chosen strictly for defensive applications. Life is too short to spend my time turning something I like into a chore. I'd rather dance with the one I brung.
If you read about some old fart who was murdered by a gang of zombie ninja gang-banger bikers while trying to reload his Blackhawk, it was probably me.
Edited to add: I do have a couple of handguns that I can shoot and like to shoot that are not single-action revolvers, so I'm not completely "helpless". Just mostly so.
LockedBreech
New member
Are you okay if all of your tools only do what your hammer does, or do you like to have screwdrivers and drills handy too?
My .22 target rifle drills holes it in the X-ring just fine. My service-type pistol and AR-15 are designed for self-defense.
It doesn't make me 'obsessed with trying to kill someone' if I want my tools to do their jobs well if, God forbid, they have to. I won't keep a dull knife on the off chance that I never have to cut a tough cut of meat - I keep a block of razor-honed Wusthof Classics even though I'm a ways away from my cooking talents deserving them, and I keep my fire extinguisher regularly maintained instead of worrying that it makes me look like I'm obsessed with trying to fight fires...
parisite, if this were an archery forum, would you make pithy observations about arguments over broadheads, because you only require target points?
If this were a knife forum, would you decry debate over tactical folders because your Swiss Army whittles wood and cuts baling twine just fine, and that's all you need?
Your comment was offensive.
If this were a knife forum, would you decry debate over tactical folders because your Swiss Army whittles wood and cuts baling twine just fine, and that's all you need?
Your comment was offensive.
LockedBreech
New member
That vid inspired my picking that round for my newbie-shooter friend's Stoeger Cougar. His girlfriend is home alone a lot and needed to be able to handle it. The 147 is easy shooting and friendly and they're both good and confident with it, and I trust Speer's products to perform. tnoutdoors9 is a valuable resource. He's thorough, consistent, and dispassionate.