147 grain 9mm smack down

I shoot nothing but 147 grain Federal Tactical. I've shot thousands of rounds of this stuff and never had a hiccup.........

..........I trust my life with the stuff no questions asked. By the way, my dept. has issued 147 grain for probably 15 years or more.
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The ammo passes the reliability test, but the other half of the equation is it's street effectiveness. I don't see any recommendation based on that criteria.

I might be more impressed if I knew how your dept. ammo compares (on the street) to Gold Dot 124 +P, DPX, or 124 gr. HST.

If your Fed. Tac. is based on the HST design, then I suppose I could be impressed a little.:D
 
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Since it penetrates deeper and has a larger expansion whats the problem?


I am talking modern bullets, Federal HST, Ranger T, Speer Gold dots, Remington Golden Sabers

Based on gel testing all of these penetrate deeper and have larger expansions than 124, or 115. The HST even penetrates deeper and has larger expansion than a Gold Dot .45 acp

I fail to understand yalls logic on the "pathetic 147 grain"
 
I'm not a fan of the 147 gr. in 9mm. Simple Laws of momentum say that (all other things being equal) a heavy bullet will have the best penetration, BUT it will also be harder to get moving quickly. To get a heavy bullet up to the advertised velocity in a short barrel, it needs a fast burning powder. Most are designed for, and tested from, 4" barrels.

Some rounds, like the Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel, are designed for, well...short barrels, and develop their maximum velocity there. Another thing that plays a big part is bullet type and design.

Everything goes into the penetration equation, not just bullet weight.

When I carry my Springfield XD9SC, I load Corbon DPX. That's a 115 gr. bullet that travels at 1200 fps and has a proven 16" of penetration. Works for me.
 
Quite right CWPinSC, and well said. Bullet weight, powder choice, penetration, velocity, and bullet design are all factors to at least consider in a defensive round. There are those microcephalic individuals here and there, blinded by ignorance and hubris, who would advise others to ignore these things, but what do those guys really know anyway.
 
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Now it is time to impart some crucial information: NEVER use 147 grain ammo in a 9mm pistol! There was a stupid fad for 147 grain hollowpoints a few years ago, and many were suckered into buying these weak, worthless and malfunction-prone rounds. I don't care what you've heard: never use any 9mm hollowpoint heavier than 125 grains. 147 grain hollowpoints often jam in many popular 9mm guns like the Browning Hi-Power, SIG, Beretta 92, S&W and Glock. Ignore the gun magazine hype and stick to what works. If you want to gamble, go to Reno. Don't gamble with your life. 147 grain ammo sucks

http://www.chuckhawks.com/ammo_by_anonymous.htm
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A 20 year old report using 30 year old data. :barf:

Today's 147 grain bullet technology is not your father's 147 grain bullet technology.
 
Ditto on the 147 grain:

"+1 the Ranger T-series 147gr work pretty good too. It's my choice for a standard pressure load".
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This is one awesome bullet. Sorry, but have to disagree with Mr. Hawks....
 
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Don't buy anything on that 9mm ammo page on that Chuck Hawks site.

Its outdated OPINION posted by a person that wasn't even willing to put their own name on the BS that they where selling.

Yes early 147 grn. ammo had some "teething" problems but that was DECADES ago. Modern 147 grn. ammo is top of the line. I would trust my life to it.
 
I just love these scientific tests of shooting water jugs, I have yet to be attacked by a water jug, though anything's possible. The human anatomy may be about 90% water, but there are barriers like clothing, flesh and bone to get through, a few mm of plastic is not the same. The 147gr HST and Ranger T are far better than the older styles of 147gr bullet. Velocity, well the 185-230 gr 45acp is in the same velocity class as the 147gr 9mm as are many 180gr 40cal loads and yet these are considered by many as the holy grail of defense loads?

I know of very few PD's or federal agencies using the 115gr 9mm today. The 124 gr is most common and I would be surprised if the 147gr isn't the second most common. Perhaps part of this is because more R&D has been put into these heavier bullets. All in all many failures to stop an attack are the result of poor hits and failing to put the bullet where it counts.
 
I just love these scientific tests of shooting water jugs, I have yet to be attacked by a water jug, though anything's possible.
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I've been attacked by my coffee table, thought I broke my toe!:eek::p
As a test: The water jug test is simple, cheap, reproducable, and measurable. There isn't a lot of variables inherent to the test itself.
Can't say I've any experience with the 147gr. I wonder how my Norinco 213 would handle it?
 
Its outdated OPINION posted by a person that wasn't even willing to put their own name on the BS that they where selling.
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This will ALWAYS be an issue...someone will ALWAYS try and argue a point with old data outdated from the early 90's or even the "miami shootout" from 1986.

I own 147gr Ranger SXT's and 124gr Ranger Bonded +P's and think the world of BOTH

Have a shot anyone to see the differences?...NO

Would I trust my life to either one of those rounds?...HELL YEA!

Until the day someone can show me a scientific UNBIASED testing that proves the 147gr 9mm round is ineffective than I will continue to use it!!!
 
I'll stick with my Buffalo-Bore: 147 grain HP. (1,175 fps/M.E. 451 ft. lbs.). It will do just fine.

However; in my little pocket nine, I use 115 grain Hornady Critical Defense.

For my S&W Model 13-1 357 mag, it's 158 grain Federal Hydra-shok

For my SigSauer P220 45acp, it's 230 grain Remington golden sabers.

Each gun is different. Each gun reacts differently. You need to find the right ammo for that particular gun. For the 9mm, that particular gun might like the 115 Fed Hydra-Shok; maybe it like a 124 grain remington. Maybe it feeds and shoots best with a 147 grain. My gun is not your gun. And sorry, but I don't buy the whole "OVER PENETRATION" red herring scare tactic.

3 out of 4 shots in self defense, usually MISS their intended target. "Not mine, but most". They are heading for innocent bystanders without any slowing down at all. The 1 in 4 that does hit their target, has an extremely good chance of NOT over penetrating. And even if it does, it has slowed down significantly, and very difficult to be critical against another innocent bystander. Is it possible? Yes. But considering how low the odds are, I'd rather take my chances with maximum penetration. Especially with a handgun. I'll risk over penetration compared to under penetration. "And this coming from a person who has no problem carrying a 32acp because I know that shot placement is more important than anything".

If you're looking for the perfect guarantee, with the perfect penetrating bullet, that doesn't over penetrate, and expands to maximum size....... Well, you've got a long wait coming. Such a bullet does not exist. And I'll error on the side of over penetrating any day of the week. I get 2 holes for the price of one; more blood loss and better chance of rapid loss of blood pressure. And I'm not a cop. I'm not going to be shooting at someone in a crowd. Over penetration isn't a concern for me.
 
People worry way too much about this stuff.
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I don't think so.

A handgun is the WORST shootable weapon to bring to a gunfight. I want any slight advantage I can get. If one round penetrates 1" farther in the universal medium of ballistic gel, and/or the chrony says it has 50 fps more velocity, and/or the recovered bullets expand 1% more reliably than something else - then that's the one I'll use.

I don't worry about it, but I do the research and make a final choice and stick with it until something better comes along.
 
I have a bit over 4000+ rounds of American Eagle 115 gr I use for practice, a few hundred rounds of various manufacturers 125 gr ammo, also for practice and 3,600 rounds of Remington JHP 147 gr for serious. My reasoning is that since they are the most accurate round in this Browning 9MM and unlike the 115 and 125 never seem to jam its the round for this gun.

I understand the prejudice against it, its the same antipathy I have for the M16. Early experience when it first came out was bad and nothing has changed my mind about it since. I'm a late comer to the 9MM gun and so I have a more open mind, my favorite calibers still start with 4.

However plinking at 100 yards at gallon milk jugs of water tickle my giggle and the target results from 8 yards to 30 yards are satisfactory with all of them but best with the 147 grain. I could care less what the paper numbers are, my first criteria is being able to hit the target and my personal experience gives the nod to the 147.
 
CWPinSC gets it right again. Any type of ballistic advantage is to be applauded and utilized whenever feasible. Heck, placement of the shot is paramount, but once past that, it is all ballistics and what is appropriate for the job. Stopping ones careful consideration at placement and failing to consider everything else is a fools errand is it not?
 
If people would throw the misconception of "Over Penetration" totally out the window, I doubt very much that anyone would argue using the 147 grain 9mm. Maybe 10 years ago, but with today's ammo, the 147 grain will expand quite nicely. And because "Over Penetration" is "OVER RATED", there is no reason not to use the heaviest and most penetrating ammo you can get. Assuming of course that it works properly in your firearm.

FWIW: This same argument has been going on for years with the 357 magnum. Oh No.... Don't EVER shoot a 158 grain bullet for self defense. It will over penetrate. Bull Shiite. Crank that 158 grain Hornady XTP, Federal Hydra-Shok, Gold Dot, or whatever, and put 4-5 in their chest. And don't worry about the "Over Penetration". Your odds are greater that you'll miss your target all together than over penetrating. And missing your target is a lot more dangerous for innocent bystanders than an over penetrated round. The ONLY reason manufacturers came out with SMALLER Weight bullets, is because larger bullets weren't going fast enough to expand properly. And instead of stressing the gun by cranking up the speed into a 9mm Magnum or a 45acp Magnum, they came out with the 115-124 grain 9mm and the 165 and 185 grain 230. (As well as the 125 grain 357 magnum). But modern technologies has allowed that 230 grain 45acp or 147 grain 9mm to expand at their rated speeds.

Years ago, I always shot 125 grain in my 357 mag revolver. I shot 124 grain in my 9mm. And I shot 185 grains in my 45acp. These were my defensive rounds. Now, between Remington, Federal, Buffalo-Bore, and many others, it's back to the 158 for the 357 mag, 147 for the 9mm, and 230 grain for the 45acp. As posted earlier, I do shoot some 115 grains in my 9mm, but that's Hornady Critical Defense ammo and it's only for specific guns. My very small 9mm and 380 pistols. I will take the heavier bullet and more penetration any day of the week. Especially if you take out the "Over Penetration" unlikelihood that many people believe is going to kill someone. Extremely unlikely.
 
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