zombie-themed guns/ammo: fun or legal liability??
- Thread starter idek
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In the book, wasting huge amounts of ammo was a big problem, America was in shambles because of the usual politics caused a delay on acting until it was too late... The rifles were a cheap wood stock rifle because of lack of resources and manufacturing capability.....
Zombie fan or not, this book is an interesting read.
So how many of those that believe "get some" or "born to kill" displayed on a self defense firearm would actually have significant impact on a trial have done the opposite??
You know peace signs and pictures of tulips and daisies?
You don't want to spot the other side points but want to stack the deck in your favor right?
I've never added any such items, pictures, special finishes to any of my guns for the simple reason that when you do you decrease your potential buyers market if and when it's ever sold.
You know peace signs and pictures of tulips and daisies?
You don't want to spot the other side points but want to stack the deck in your favor right?
I've never added any such items, pictures, special finishes to any of my guns for the simple reason that when you do you decrease your potential buyers market if and when it's ever sold.
Cosmodragoon
New member
fire4606 raises an interesting corollary. Maybe we could all gain a modicum of legal safety by carrying pink guns decked out in hearts and emblazoned with a shiny unicorn emblem...
Red Baron Red...
I considered buying a new unfired Charter Arms .44 Bulldog DA only revolver then having a local DuraCoat treat it with "German Red". I call the shade; Red Barron red.
I for 1 won't knock all custom gun work or coatings/treatments.
If it protects the firearm or adds interest to it then it may increase the value.
Clyde
PS; Im also fond of the Harley-Davidson orange Duracoat.
I considered buying a new unfired Charter Arms .44 Bulldog DA only revolver then having a local DuraCoat treat it with "German Red". I call the shade; Red Barron red.
I for 1 won't knock all custom gun work or coatings/treatments.
If it protects the firearm or adds interest to it then it may increase the value.
Clyde
PS; Im also fond of the Harley-Davidson orange Duracoat.
"Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury, ask yourself why this sick, twisted individual paid hundreds of dollars to paint pictures of peace signs and daisies on this instrument of death. Did he have delusions of enforcing his brand of peace by snuffing the victim out? Did he think he was the notorious hippie, Charles Manson, executing those whom he deemed bad for society? His kind of society? We don't know what goes on in the killer's mind, but what we do know is that he does not take a fellow person's life a serious matter. Just look at this gun - obviously, in the killer's mind, it's not just a tool for self-defense. It's something much more, otherwise he wouldn't have adorned it the way he did...."
What if it's a gift from someone? Say, for example, a father for whatever reason, gets his daughter a 'Hello Kitty' or just a plain old pink painted, AR15 and she is forced to use it one day for self defense. Couldn't she just claim it was a gift, and the design and graphics on her gun, in no way reflected her intentions with the firearm, she just liked the color.
What about a chrome, versus black, versus gold plated, versus camo painted, versus pink, versus green, painted firearms. Which one's are the jury going to decide is 'worse?'
Couldn't you argue, "that's what they had at the store" or "That's what I found astatically pleasing, and it in no way influences my intentions of how and when to use my firearm."
Where do you draw the line?
What about a chrome, versus black, versus gold plated, versus camo painted, versus pink, versus green, painted firearms. Which one's are the jury going to decide is 'worse?'
Couldn't you argue, "that's what they had at the store" or "That's what I found astatically pleasing, and it in no way influences my intentions of how and when to use my firearm."
Where do you draw the line?
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
You are assuming that the gun appearance is brought up in such a manner that the defendant is on the stand and asked to explain the zombie ammo or pink gun.
When the gun is presented into evidence and shown to the jury - you may get negative ideation. The DA may not may a histronic speech but just show the gun.
Thus, do you want your defense attorney to bring up the issue? That might just suggest it was a bad choice. and you are making excuses.
When the gun is presented into evidence and shown to the jury - you may get negative ideation. The DA may not may a histronic speech but just show the gun.
Thus, do you want your defense attorney to bring up the issue? That might just suggest it was a bad choice. and you are making excuses.
Think pink...
I wouldn't take any issue with a pink, teal, purple or peach colored weapon if a woman used it.
Women like pink & wear/use it often.
My friend, a retired Hollywood stunt performer & film industry stunt co-ordinatior got a pink Hogue rubber grip for his wife's S&W .357magnum.
If she shot a car-jacker or a rapist, I don't think the pink grip would even come up.
CF
I wouldn't take any issue with a pink, teal, purple or peach colored weapon if a woman used it.
Women like pink & wear/use it often.
My friend, a retired Hollywood stunt performer & film industry stunt co-ordinatior got a pink Hogue rubber grip for his wife's S&W .357magnum.
If she shot a car-jacker or a rapist, I don't think the pink grip would even come up.
CF
SPEMack618
New member
Not to thread hi-jack, but what on earth would be the problem of using a
10mm gun as an EDC piece?
I mean the FBI used to issue it.
10mm gun as an EDC piece?
I mean the FBI used to issue it.
OldMarksman
Staff
The subject will not become a subject for discussion unless the defense attorney puts the defendant on the stand and introduces the subject by asking questions. That would open the issue for cross examination, and it would not be a good idea.
The damage is done when the state introduces the firearm or ammunition into evidence and when the state's investigators describe same by model name and/or trademark, and if applicable, describe any custom modifications. Details can be shown on flat screens. The prosecutor can also make something of the choices in closing arguments.
Who knows? Dr. Meyer's jury simulations tell us that modern military style black rifles and pistol grip shotguns can influence juries negatively. The literature also tells us that certain kinds of ammunition can be problematical.
Anything beyond that requires speculation.
Spats McGee
Administrator
Google Arizona v. Harold FishSPEMack618 said:
You get things like:
Source: http://www.nbcnews.com/id/15199221/ns/dateline_nbc-crime_reports/t/trail-evidence/
Frank Ettin
Administrator
Skans said:
JD0x0 said:
What none of you seem to be able to grasp is how this all can happen at a trial. It's not necessarily a matter of the prosecutor making comments. And any embellishments on the gun will "come up" quite naturally.ClydeFrog said:
The gun will be entered as evidence. At various times it will be displayed to the jury, and the members of the jury will have an opportunity multiple times to get a good look at it.
The gun will most likely be shown to one of the investigating officers arriving at the scene during the course of his testifying about the preliminary investigation. He will then identify it as the gun that was in the possession of the defendant and which he secured.
The gun will also most likely be shown to the jury and to the Firearms and Tool Mark Examiner who will be testifying about his examination of the gun and quite possibly his confirmation by ballistic tests that it was the gun used.
Through all of this process the jury has a chance to observe the pink grips or the Punisher grips or the "Born to Kill" engraved on the slide. Maybe the investigating officer and/or the Firearms and Tool Marks Examiner will be asked about any unique identifying characteristics of the gun, giving him a chance to mention the pink grips or the Punisher grips or the "Born to Kill" engraved on the slide.
So the prosecutor doesn't have to say anything about the pink grips or the Punisher grips or the "Born to Kill" engraved on the slide. The members of the jury will know that they are there and be able to think about the person who has such embellishments on his gun and what it might mean about that person.
Of course if the defendant's lawyer comments on the pink grips or the Punisher grips or the "Born to Kill" engraved on the slide, that calls the jury's attention to those embellishments.
Dr. Meyer understands how these things are done, which is why he wrote:
Glenn E. Meyer said:
Justice06RR
New member
I didn't read the entire thread, but I'd echo what Pico posted above.
I like Zombie/SHTF movies and shows for entertainment, But that's where it ends. I don't buy any of the actual related product and In the same way I don't put any firearm related stickers or decorations in my home or vehicle. Its all marketing and hype, same as duracoated firearms or Hello Kitty guns. They all try to attract a certain type of customer and also upsell the product.
To me, that is all--plain and simple.
OldMarksman
Staff
I hate to put it quite this way, but had you read some of the discussion, you might have learned something. One who understands how juries work would not so "echo."
The gun will be "brought in as evidence"; the jury will see it, and form opinions.
Might I suggest that you take a moment to read Posts 33, 39, 42, 48, 75, 81, 95, 109, and 114, and then decide.
zincwarrior
New member
Good points. We have to remember we're talking an SD scenario here, not your favorite range or hunting piece. That limits a lot of the Zombie stuff as CC pieces and nightstand guns don't have as much of that, that I can tell.
The vast majority of handguns owned by civilians aren't carried in public...
So, It could be pretty rare that a zombie themed gun is actually carried legally... Now, if it was used away from the home in a self defense scenario and goes to trial, something went wrong or you live in the wrong jurisdiction... For someone decided that your self defense shooting wasn't justified....
Here, the most I've seen is it gets to the grand jury and is dropped... One case was questionable in abilene, because it started as road rage, and ended up a collision. One guy pulled a gun, the other guy went back to his car got in, then came back out with a pistol and killed the other driver... He got 70yrs.
If you use any weapon in your home against an aggressor who has entered your home and you get sent to trial..... Well, something has gone wrong with the system- zombie gun, or not.
Either way, if you end up in trial, I don't think having used a zombie gun will help your case.
You could get lucky and have some rational persuasive jurors that see it as decoration only.
Juries are like any sampling of the population. You will have a mix of rational people and emotionally guided people. A leader or group of leaders will emerg and most of the rest will follow.
So, It could be pretty rare that a zombie themed gun is actually carried legally... Now, if it was used away from the home in a self defense scenario and goes to trial, something went wrong or you live in the wrong jurisdiction... For someone decided that your self defense shooting wasn't justified....
Here, the most I've seen is it gets to the grand jury and is dropped... One case was questionable in abilene, because it started as road rage, and ended up a collision. One guy pulled a gun, the other guy went back to his car got in, then came back out with a pistol and killed the other driver... He got 70yrs.
If you use any weapon in your home against an aggressor who has entered your home and you get sent to trial..... Well, something has gone wrong with the system- zombie gun, or not.
Either way, if you end up in trial, I don't think having used a zombie gun will help your case.
You could get lucky and have some rational persuasive jurors that see it as decoration only.
Juries are like any sampling of the population. You will have a mix of rational people and emotionally guided people. A leader or group of leaders will emerg and most of the rest will follow.
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