You're in charge

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Well, I thought I had heard that the Bush admin. had decided to grant the Gitmo detainees G.C. protection. Maybe I was mistaken.

How benevolent, may he continue to bestow his merciful wisdom upon the rest of us undeserving peasant folk. At least that's what we'll be saying if/when 'domestic terrorism' becomes more prevalent. That's what they seem to be gearing up for anyway.

Nevertheless, the suggestion that they deserve it seems to fly in the face of acknowledgement that they do not have international standing as some sort of army.

Well, while at war in a country called afghanistan, we've picked up a great many afghanis to be jailed indeterminantly, same goes for the country of iraq. Regardless, there seem to be a great many that have decided to take up arms in resistance. Whether united politially or geographically, I wouldn't think it matters much, an AK toting rose by any other name?

If we acknowledge that they are not a true nation-state or an army, then they are not worthy of the protections that the Geneva Convention gives to members of such an entity.

And then if we can just acknowledge that THESE people or THOSE people are not worthy of such protections...It's only a matter of time before those sights are laid upon us. But as long as they're not worthy, well then by all means...

When exceptions start being made, again, it's a slippery slope that will only lead to worse things (Yes, worse than turning the other cheek and abiding even when they're not.)
 
I must say...

everything Rich and Blues said, plus sept. 12 i'd have put the whole muslim world on notice, so much as a firecracker goes off here and Mecca and Medina disappear. I dont give a damn why they hate us. We always hear that there are only a few bad people involved, well that should help the rest make up their minds.

Big Ruger, that's a foolish move, you'd trigger a situation that's even worse than what's going on right now. Would you give a crap if Jerusalem disappeared? Probably yes? Then why show favoritism towards another nation because of their religion and not the other? Sounds like Taliban thinking, or Christian right wing thinking to me. (In my eyes, they are both inhibitors of true freedom, because they favor one religion over others.) The Arabs and the Jews have been at each others throats for such a long time, and I believe that it's not America's business to stick its nose in a country that is already doing quite well in defending itself, it just perpetuates more anti-American ideas and spawns more terrorism. FirstFreedom, thank you for saying what most people are so blind to understand. Maybe if we let Israel stand on its own since they're well off now we'd have a reduction in terrorism? Why do they hate America? Gee maybe because the Israelis are using American made weapons for the most part, AND getting funding from the American government? I think that for the most part we should've taken care of Osama bin Hidin' a long time ago, we have the top military and recon technology in the world, and we "can't find him" something fishy's going on. Oh right, it's because Bush deals with the bin Laden family, just as Bush's family dealt weapons with Hitler just before America entered WW2. I feel the terror at home is a bigger problem that triggers the terror from abroad. Only the government is benefiting from this "war on terror" by keep the People terrorized, let's play some more terror alert twister. The Second Amendment the original Homeland Security, give EVERYONE on that plan a gun, and watch the terrorists drop like flies before they could even get to the cockpit.


Americans ALWAYS step up.
Except when a plane with men with box cutters take over everyone cowers in fear and doesn't do crap to stop them from an attack.:( 9/11 COULD HAVE BEEN PREVENTED IF PROPER ACTION WAS TAKEN! Had the government actually listened to its field agents we wouldn't have been under attack. Had the passengers just decided to get some brass and f$%k up the hijackers before they got control of the plane there could've been less casualties. Rich don't mean to pry apart what you said, I know you meant well.

As for what I'd do if I was in charge around the time of 9/11. Destroy Al Qaeda, find and kill Osama bin Laden. Rebuild Afghanistan after the attack, let them form their OWN government, and tell them they are a free nation but should the Taliban return to threaten us America will come back again. I'd stay out of Iraq, because it wasn't my business to begin with, they weren't the ones who attacked my country. I'd also withdraw from the Middle East actively and definately seek alternative fuels feverishly, giving incentives and tax write-offs in order to help further alternative fuel. I would not drill for more oil even domestically. I'd tell corporate America to shove off, and that the government belongs to the People, not companies, religious groups, and eliteists. Re-instate the Constitution I mean ALL OF IT and abolish as many absurd and unconstitutional rules possible. Legalize gay marrige, end the war on drugs, and allow individuals the right to die if they so choose especially if they are terminally ill or are so injured physically or mentally that their will states they choose death instead of treatment, no more gun control laws either. I'd want us to become a nation of neutrality as well as try to see if we can clean up the huge mess of an organization called the UN once things can be set properly here.


Epyon


P.S: I do agree with those who still question who/what was the cause behind 9/11 I still wouldn't put it past me if the government allowed it/was pulling the strings for it to happen. Don't know how much longer this country can hold up under its own weight, anyone feel my sentiments on that?
 
Except when a plane with men with box cutters take over everyone cowers in fear and doesn't do crap to stop them from an attack. 9/11 COULD HAVE BEEN PREVENTED IF PROPER ACTION WAS TAKEN! Had the government actually listened to its field agents we wouldn't have been under attack. Had the passengers just decided to get some brass and f$%k up the hijackers before they got control of the plane there could've been less casualties.

I don't think this is fair at all.

Before 9/11, the standard hijack scenario we were all familiar with was that the hijackers don't kill the pilots. Historically, they instructed the cockpit crew to land the plane and then the terrorists got some TV time and demanded release of some hostages and/or some money.

9/11 changed all that.

You and I now have perfect information. 20/20 hindsight.

We know what the hijackers had planned and why. We have films of planes hitting buildings, the buildings collapsing and the Pentagon on fire.

The passengers on two of the planes did not know what the terrorists had planned. They were working under the old assumption that you sit and wait out the hijacking. They weren't cowards because they didn't John Wayne the cockpit and fly 'er in to safety.

The passengers on the flight that hit the Pentagon had some information but not enough time. They were in the process of planning how to try to take over the plane when it hit.

The one set of passengers who knew what was happening and had more time was on the fourth plane. They fought to the bitter end trying to stop the hijackers.


There's that Brass you couldn't find.


I don't blame the passengers on the planes for any of the 9/11 horror.

Even the conspiracy lovers haven't crossed that line.

You have the "distinction" of being the first one I have ever read or heard of who has.
 
Epyon

Except when a plane with men with box cutters take over everyone cowers in fear and doesn't do crap to stop them from an attack.

You're entitled to your opinion, but that is over the line.
Clanky has it 100% right on this.
 
Alright..

Sorry if I stepped on some toes. I just find it annoying that when there is a small number of bad guys who are poorly armed, that the other passengers do nothing to stop it. I do understand previous patterns of hijackings allowed passengers to live after they got TV time, but who was the idiot that told the public, "give in to their demands" Wouldn't preventing cockpit access after the first few hijackings have caused people to wise up? Also, regardless of what the hijackers wanted to do, whether it was get TV time and hold ransoms, or suicide runs. I would imagine treating every hijacked plane just like a firearm you haven't checked, that we are to assume it can do damage and therefore take preventiative measure. Again sorry for that badly worded comment, I guess I let emotion get the best of me without clearly thinking about everything.:o It has been said that "Evil prevails when good people do nothing" I believe it was Ghandi who said it. I do agree the people on 4th plane did all they could. Now another question I must ask, how come out of all the photos and the number of cameras around the Pentagon are there no photos of plane parts like wings, or a fusealage or something?! There is no video the plane hitting the Pentagon, that's strange considering it's the defense building of our nation and it's obviously monitored by cameras.


Epyon
 
To be lectured about what pansies those airline passengers were by someone whos entire plan is to run away, hide, and whatever you do don't piss off the terrorists who want us dead really is a bit much. Retreat from the middle east? Never use fossil fuels again? Never support Israel again? The only middle eastern democracy? Just abandon them? Maybe we should just promise to convert to whatever they want us to and never look them in the eye again. Do you get to have visitors in fantasyland? Also heres a trivia question for you. During the previous administration, who got more American tax dollars, Israel, or Yasser Arafat?
 
Epyon, are you trying to feed a conspiracy theory that would claim that although there is abundant PROOF that airplanes hit the three other sites, the thing that hit the Pentagon was a missile of some sort -- something other than an airplane? :rolleyes:

Who would have fired this missile? Would it be the cohorts of the hijackers, even though the rest of their plan involved hijacked airliners? Would it be U.S. government agents, trying to foment a reason to go after arabs and islamists for years and years at great expense (not to mention excuses for tightening restrictions on American life and freedom)? That would seem to require the U.S. agents knowing when and where the arab hijackers would act, and firing the missile at the same time. All of which strains credulity.

There HAVE been some photos (just a few frames, though) released of a streaking object hitting the Pentagon. I remember seeing them in the paper a few months ago.

-azurefly
 
I also stand by my earlier post. I am pretty sure that renegade Jews didn't fly planes into our buildings. Also fairly certain it wasn't a bunch of those horrible murderin Christians. I fully rcognize that making that threat would upset people, but in war you must demonstrate to your enemy that you are willing to hit him harder than he can hit you. Ask the Germans who were in Hamburg or dresden how much will to fight they had after the bombers left. It aint pretty, but there it is. They started it we didn't. ERIC
 
Big Ruger...

I'm sure Israel has been more than capable in standing on its own two feet for quite some time now. If you're so concerned about the governments around the world and democracy, look at the amount corruption and injustice running throughout Africa. If you're concerned about democracy, why not tell most of Europe to stop being socialists? I believe that we as a nation shouldn't impose our political and economic beliefs, especially by force, on other countries if those countries don't find democracy and capitalism to be something they like. We keep to our political and economic system, they keep to theirs. You know I wonder, I thought America's policy was "we don't deal with communists" yet China has absurd human rights violations, and is a communist country, yet it seems all our American flags are made there. As for religious zealots killing and destroying in the name of god, that's with just about any religion, the finger pointing of "Islam is evil" is just a blanket statement for the ignorant to follow blindly without actually having to talk and read what it's all about, it allows religious extremism on the opposing spectrum to further push their agenda. Looking back at the history of my ancestors, I could easily, hands down start flaming Christianity and Britain for the mess they caused on the Indian sub-continent, I'm sure the Chinese could say the same after the Boxer Rebellion. (But that's the easy way out, and only the foolish and ignorant would try to blame an entire religion as being evil.) As for never using fossil fuels again, well think about it, do you feel a non-renewable resource is worth fighting and dying for? I sure don't; I'm all for alternate renewable energy if it means no more wasting our manpower and money. Also, I never said give up to the terrorist's ideals, just because I said pull out of the Middle East and get an alternative fuel, doesn't mean I'm "pro-terror" or "anti-Israel". Why is the Middle East such a big deal? Oil, hands down. It's not because of "terrorism" yes it does happen in the Middle East and it started from there, (I don't entirely count every insurgent attack in Iraq, because there are also a substantial number of rebelling Iraqi natives who are upset at the occupation.) but as it has been stated, groups like Al Qaeda have no national boundaries they can be anywhere. I firmly believe that we can fight terrorism, and put ourselves in a better situation by leaving the Middle East alone, and finding our own energy source. Guard our borders, and be sure to remove any terrorist organization that is willing to attack us. In other words, Hezbollah and Hamas are NOT our concern they are Israel's concern, Al Qaeda is not just our concern but the world's. Iran? Potentially, but that's such a gray area I don't even know what to say about that because Europe, Russia, and China seem to not have as many issues with them as we do.

To azurefly, not trying to force feed conspiracy theories, just something that I question on my own, not saying anyone has to believe me on it. I just find it astounding that we see repeated footage of the planes hitting the WTC, yet not many photos or video of the Pentagon as well. Want to hear more of my conspiracy theories? PM me about it, unless we'd like to have a flame fest on logic/physics on this thread. (Which I feel would be VERY off topic and inappropriate.)


Epyon
 
Wow, What the hell are you talking about? I'll gladly adress the two points you referenced from my last post. First off, I never said Islam is evil. If you read my post you would see that it was clearly stated that this might be a way to get non terrorist muslims to police their own idiots. Second I fully agree that it will be a good thing to find an alternate fuel source, other than oil. However, to just say we should just quit using oil is indicative of an ignorance of reality. Do you have any idea how many products come from oil? I mean do you think that in 1903, when Henry Ford made his first car, the rest of the country just parked the horses and waited for their car to materialize in the driveway? eventually we will move away from petroleum products, but it wont happen unless and until there is a truly viable alternative, and not some pie in the sky theory.
 
Even if oil were not the basis for producing gasoline, jet fuel, kerosene, diesel fuel... we are still always going to have FRICTION, and our devices are still going to need LUBRICATION.

So we're still going to need oil, and a hell of a lot of it. Sure, fine, we may need so much less of it (when we use 100% non-petroleum fuels) that we can use synthetic oils (which we have now) for lubrication.

But I am not knowledgable about synthetic oils, where they come from, what they're made of, how much of that material is available...


-azurefly
 
Well well...

I wasn't alive for Vietnam... but does this constitute as a Vietnam situation again? Another draft? How about a coup d'etat instead? Better yet, let's force Congress and the Exective branch to send their children on the front lines, maybe that'll teach them to send ours, and teach them to pick their fights more carefully.:mad: :mad: :mad:


Epyon
 
Epyon, I WAS alive for Vietnam. Didn't meet any politicians kids or rich kids in SE Asia. The next draft won't be any different. I guess it will be good TV for the gung ho, armchair warrior/commando, kill 'em all crowd. Maybe they'll get lucky and get an up-close personal view.:(

badbob
 
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