Your pick of a combination in Combat like situation.
- Thread starter Firepower!
- Start date
- Status
armsmaster270
New member
A lot of the things mentioned may not be available to him and he is talking real world not mythical scenarios.
troy_mclure
New member
m203 isnt really that effective.
you need almost a direct hit on personell for good damage, civilian vehicles can be taken out pretty easy if you hit the wheels, or bust it thru the grille, but thats about it.
you need almost a direct hit on personell for good damage, civilian vehicles can be taken out pretty easy if you hit the wheels, or bust it thru the grille, but thats about it.
M203 not effective? I would beg to differ, indirect fire at the fire team level is very very effective.
As for a fighting loadout
ANY serviceable semiautomatic rifle in a fighting rifle caliber (5.56mm on up) with as many magazines as possible, at least seven, preferably more.
ANY serviceable semi auto pistol in a fighting caliber (9mm on up to .45 or 10mm) with 3 to 5 magazines.
some kind of armor, some is better than nothing but perferably level III or IV with sapi plates.
The kit to carry all this stuff.
As many similarly equipped friends as possible.
As for a fighting loadout
ANY serviceable semiautomatic rifle in a fighting rifle caliber (5.56mm on up) with as many magazines as possible, at least seven, preferably more.
ANY serviceable semi auto pistol in a fighting caliber (9mm on up to .45 or 10mm) with 3 to 5 magazines.
some kind of armor, some is better than nothing but perferably level III or IV with sapi plates.
The kit to carry all this stuff.
As many similarly equipped friends as possible.
Smoke Screen
New member
Intermediate Range: Chuck Norris
Medium Range: Chuck Norris
Close Quarters: Chuck Norris
Sorry, I couldn't resist. On the serious side, I agree with the others, Mannlicher in particular that have said the 12 Ga. Shotgun, with a 8-9 shot capacity. A lot of people underestimate the versatility of the 12 Ga. Heavy shot buck would easily take care of individuals out to 120 yds or so. If in "your" area, I would also like an assault rifle in 7.62x39. It's got more punch than a .223. Compliment that by a pistol that you have a lot of practice with (automatic, revolver) in whatevery caliber you are good and proficient at. The pistol would only be my SHTF gun. Plenty of ammo for all three.
As far as tactics, the only thing I feel would give you an advantage in this situation would be if you were fighting in your terrain that they didn't know (streets, paths, buildings etc...) and to use guerilla tactics. If I was fighting for my life I would try to gain as much knowledge beforehand of the area I would be fighting in. I would plan traps, ambush points, choke points, and escape points. Guerilla tactics are frowned upon by more chrivalrous individuals, but their effectiveness is arguably the best way to go. In other words if given the chance, strike the most lethal and influential individual first. Then run to point X and plan to engage there. Strike at the next point and fall back to the next point, and so on and so forth. This would give you the best chance of survival and would help to cocnfuse and demoralize the enemy, and make them think twice before advancing because they are being taken out one by one. Unfortuantely, they are not very likely to all be bunched up in a group so you'll have to take that into consideration as well. Hit and run tactics. This would work even better if you had good friends/allies like eveyone says too. Hope you don't have to do what we're all talking about, but best of luck.
Medium Range: Chuck Norris
Close Quarters: Chuck Norris
Sorry, I couldn't resist. On the serious side, I agree with the others, Mannlicher in particular that have said the 12 Ga. Shotgun, with a 8-9 shot capacity. A lot of people underestimate the versatility of the 12 Ga. Heavy shot buck would easily take care of individuals out to 120 yds or so. If in "your" area, I would also like an assault rifle in 7.62x39. It's got more punch than a .223. Compliment that by a pistol that you have a lot of practice with (automatic, revolver) in whatevery caliber you are good and proficient at. The pistol would only be my SHTF gun. Plenty of ammo for all three.
As far as tactics, the only thing I feel would give you an advantage in this situation would be if you were fighting in your terrain that they didn't know (streets, paths, buildings etc...) and to use guerilla tactics. If I was fighting for my life I would try to gain as much knowledge beforehand of the area I would be fighting in. I would plan traps, ambush points, choke points, and escape points. Guerilla tactics are frowned upon by more chrivalrous individuals, but their effectiveness is arguably the best way to go. In other words if given the chance, strike the most lethal and influential individual first. Then run to point X and plan to engage there. Strike at the next point and fall back to the next point, and so on and so forth. This would give you the best chance of survival and would help to cocnfuse and demoralize the enemy, and make them think twice before advancing because they are being taken out one by one. Unfortuantely, they are not very likely to all be bunched up in a group so you'll have to take that into consideration as well. Hit and run tactics. This would work even better if you had good friends/allies like eveyone says too. Hope you don't have to do what we're all talking about, but best of luck.
Stevie-Ray
New member
Do I get to call in Arty?
From what I have now, I'd want:
Colt AR Tac Carbine with at least 5 mags
Colt Mark IV with at least 3 mags
P32 BUG (Hey, it's light and ya never know)
Reason is I shoot them all very well at varying distances.
From what I have now, I'd want:
Colt AR Tac Carbine with at least 5 mags
Colt Mark IV with at least 3 mags
P32 BUG (Hey, it's light and ya never know)
Reason is I shoot them all very well at varying distances.
okiebuckout
Inactive
Being only one and having 10 guys attacking me, probably without advanced warning, would qualify as SHTF...Just my my feelings. I guess I would stick with my M1A scout bunch of mags and my 1911. Prayers, lots of prayers.
Oh, I would have a predator on hand if possible. Save the video tape to show you guys the results. =)
Smoke Screen
New member
Firepower! said nothing about the enemies confronting him without warning. Also, by SHTF I mean I'm out of shotgun AND rifle ammo.
Screw firefights with pistols at any range past 20 ft.troy_mclure
New member
M203 not effective? I would beg to differ, indirect fire at the fire team level is very very effective.
yep, maybe in a open feild environ, to nail low spots that your machine gunner cant hit.
but in an urban environment, not so effective. i caused more damage with 40mm flares than hedp.
yep, maybe in a open feild environ, to nail low spots that your machine gunner cant hit.
but in an urban environment, not so effective. i caused more damage with 40mm flares than hedp.
An M4 carbine would be good because of the light weight. Assuming I had one that I'd proven to be reliable. A suppressor would help to mask my location when I fired at them, and preserve my hearing so I'd have a better chance of hearing them sneak up on me.
I'll add a comment about ammunition - not being part of the military, I would NOT feel a need to conform to the Hague Accords. I would have some green tip penetrator ammo (in case the baddies were wearing body armor) but I'd be carrying mostly softpoints that were trajectory-matched to the penetrators. The .223 depends on post-impact tumbling and fragmentation for stopping power, and in the M4 it's an iffy proposition with regular military ball ammo; the jury is still out on the Mk262 77grain MKG. Softpoints will address this quite handily.
For a sidearm, a good 1911 with 230 JHP ammo. I've got a Les Baer .45 which would be just the ticket.
10 bad guys? I'd be most interested just in survival until I were successful in breaking contact.
I'll add a comment about ammunition - not being part of the military, I would NOT feel a need to conform to the Hague Accords. I would have some green tip penetrator ammo (in case the baddies were wearing body armor) but I'd be carrying mostly softpoints that were trajectory-matched to the penetrators. The .223 depends on post-impact tumbling and fragmentation for stopping power, and in the M4 it's an iffy proposition with regular military ball ammo; the jury is still out on the Mk262 77grain MKG. Softpoints will address this quite handily.
For a sidearm, a good 1911 with 230 JHP ammo. I've got a Les Baer .45 which would be just the ticket.
10 bad guys? I'd be most interested just in survival until I were successful in breaking contact.
Just had a thought - what would *really* be helpful in such a dire situation is a good motocross motorcycle. I have tried and failed at coming up with any sort of portable, actually obtainable weaponry that would allow one to hold off ten armed adversaries. Ten foes who know what they're about can have you flanked in no time flat. A motorcycle would provide you with the fastest, least exposed egress possible.
Many answers have been of a specific rifle like the M4.
When outnumbered in such a combat situation, your goal is not to kill or eliminate, but to slow and demoralize the enemy in order to make a hasty retreat. This depends upon the enemy's motivation and training, however.
Therefore, the best answer would be a machine gun like the M249 SAW and some grenades or a grenade launcher like the M203.
What you want to do is throw the grenades and, after the initial explosions, lay down some fire while retreating and wound as many as possible. The grenades should be enough to get everyone to the ground and stun them into oblivion giving you at least a few good minutes. If you wound some more, then that will slow them down even more.
If the enemy cannot be eliminated, then you have to slow and demoralize them giving you sufficient time for an escape or an alternative plan.
Amateurs will not follow the distance requirements that are suggested of large groups of men. Men should be spaced at least 15 meters or yards apart so that one grenade or mine would not be able to take them all out.
When outnumbered in such a combat situation, your goal is not to kill or eliminate, but to slow and demoralize the enemy in order to make a hasty retreat. This depends upon the enemy's motivation and training, however.
Therefore, the best answer would be a machine gun like the M249 SAW and some grenades or a grenade launcher like the M203.
What you want to do is throw the grenades and, after the initial explosions, lay down some fire while retreating and wound as many as possible. The grenades should be enough to get everyone to the ground and stun them into oblivion giving you at least a few good minutes. If you wound some more, then that will slow them down even more.
If the enemy cannot be eliminated, then you have to slow and demoralize them giving you sufficient time for an escape or an alternative plan.
Amateurs will not follow the distance requirements that are suggested of large groups of men. Men should be spaced at least 15 meters or yards apart so that one grenade or mine would not be able to take them all out.
Striker071
New member
M4-AK-FAL-M1A... 7mm mag... 30-06.... side arm of choice.. p226 Glock 1911... shot gun if it goes urban and you are moving house to house. Whatever you can use the best
I am torn... on one hand I like the comment about being in the Pub 40 miles away.. also I like the escape and evade post... But I do like the post with the grenades and the SAW. You have to get BRUTAL... but controlled... not run up the hill and charge em... but just brutal.
Well 10 to 1 you have to pick your shots. Wound and kill as many as you can and move... become mobile. Take a shot and then get out of their line of sight. Slide around and flank em... get behind em. Some might think a sniper rifle is a bad thing but finish it before it starts. Shoot one... and let another one pop his head out and take his head off as well. See how fast they advance then. You could probably have as much time as you would need after that. They would be too busy fighting about who is gonna take point and you could be long gone. I just think if you are in a position where you have to use a pistol or a shotgun in this scenario things have gone from bad to worse.. the BG's have closed in on you. Distance is your friend. I dont think there is anything wrong with Escape and Evade tactics... isnt it about survival anyway?
On the posts that are unrealistic.... my favorite is the one with the picture of the AH64 Appaches.... think ther are three or 4 in the pic.... One.. would be MORE than adequate
I am torn... on one hand I like the comment about being in the Pub 40 miles away.. also I like the escape and evade post... But I do like the post with the grenades and the SAW. You have to get BRUTAL... but controlled... not run up the hill and charge em... but just brutal.
Well 10 to 1 you have to pick your shots. Wound and kill as many as you can and move... become mobile. Take a shot and then get out of their line of sight. Slide around and flank em... get behind em. Some might think a sniper rifle is a bad thing but finish it before it starts. Shoot one... and let another one pop his head out and take his head off as well. See how fast they advance then. You could probably have as much time as you would need after that. They would be too busy fighting about who is gonna take point and you could be long gone. I just think if you are in a position where you have to use a pistol or a shotgun in this scenario things have gone from bad to worse.. the BG's have closed in on you. Distance is your friend. I dont think there is anything wrong with Escape and Evade tactics... isnt it about survival anyway?
On the posts that are unrealistic.... my favorite is the one with the picture of the AH64 Appaches.... think ther are three or 4 in the pic.... One.. would be MORE than adequate
If limited to guns that I owned it would be these three:
Remington 700 Tactical in 308WIN to get the far off bad guys and for recon. The unfinished AR15 will be finished soon, and that'd be the primary weapon for medium to short range encounters. And last, my trusty P229 as my sidearm.
Remington 700 Tactical in 308WIN to get the far off bad guys and for recon. The unfinished AR15 will be finished soon, and that'd be the primary weapon for medium to short range encounters. And last, my trusty P229 as my sidearm.
Maximus856
New member
Weapons/gear: m4 with ACOG and a 203 and an xd40. paq15's and some 14C's. Also a handfull of 'Looms, best bet if outnumbered IMO, is a nightime ambush. And, the rest of my fire team. Yes, I consider my fireteam a weapon 
Tactics: Badguys have fresh supply of dip and cigarettes, but gotta kill 'em to get 'em
-Max
Tactics: Badguys have fresh supply of dip and cigarettes, but gotta kill 'em to get 'em
-Max
Firepower!
New member
What about this:
M4A1, 590A1 Compact Cruiser and Glock 19/17.
or
AK47 Full Stock, AKSU74 and Stichken.
M4A1, 590A1 Compact Cruiser and Glock 19/17.
or
AK47 Full Stock, AKSU74 and Stichken.
vox rationis
New member
Yeah I mean I agree with everyone that says rifle + handgun (+ grenades if you've got that kind of stuff which given your position and the fact that you are in Pakistan you very well might).
I also would vote for the M4 with an optic, but since you said close range is part of the scenario, I'd go with a red dot optic unless you are trained to use a higher magnification ACOG at close range. An aimpoint ought to be superior in a close to intermediate range fight, especially in a fast moving action, against the multiple opponents you described. With the aimpoint you will be fine even out to 200 meters, even longer if you are really good and have good eyes. I guess then you could even entertain putting a 3X magnifier on a LaRue swing mount on there, but given the scenario you describe that probably wouldn't be needed.
As far as a shotgun, I'd take the M4 over the shotgun no doubt about it, BUT here is a Saiga 12 gauge shotgun that would be very useful for the close quarters portion of the encounter, especially if it was carried by one or two of your bodyguards (I seem to remember you posted previously that you had bodyguards). And if you have access to fully auto weapons, you can always go with a fully auto Saiga 12.
the handgun portion: a modern high cap pistol like an HK, Glock or Sig is what I'd go with.
Last edited:
marine0341
New member
Depends on how personal it was. If they are heavily armed and expereinced I would put my ghilly on and grab my 7mag and stalk.
If I hated the enemy I would use my KBAR and get em when they sleep.
If I was protecting myself and family I would wait till early morning with a M4 Breakfast of 10 rounds = 10 kills and a couple extra just for fun. For side arm .45 apc and a shotgun shorty and I would be heavily armored.
With no limits call an AIRSTRIKE.
If I hated the enemy I would use my KBAR and get em when they sleep.
If I was protecting myself and family I would wait till early morning with a M4 Breakfast of 10 rounds = 10 kills and a couple extra just for fun. For side arm .45 apc and a shotgun shorty and I would be heavily armored.
With no limits call an AIRSTRIKE.
- Status