Your moral obligation to help innocents at risk?

For me this is a lot simplier question when you are on your own. However, when you are married, have dependent children (and perhaps wife/parents) and are the primary provider, your obligation to them is huge.

I have to temper my personal beliefs, instincts and impulses to consider them. My personal safety aside, the impact of me becoming seriously injuried, disabled, or killed is substantial to a family. Do I have the right to put their well-being at risk? Does my commitment to them outweigh my obligation to take action? For me the question gets much tougher with these considerations.
 
If it happens that I die trying to stop a crime or an assault, is that really so bad? My family is well provided for and there are A LOT worse ways and reasons to die.
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That thought process I have trouble with. You would gladly lay down your life for a stranger and abandon your family to the vagaries of fate, even though they are "well provided for" as you put it. Money isn't everything when it comes to family.
 
If one of my family members' life were in danger, I would hope someone would step up and act in their defense. I can't reasonably expect that if I'm not willing to do the same for them.

I mean, if someone was killed, and I could have stopped it, I could not justify inaction on my part either to their family or to myself. "Yeah, I stood there and watched your mom get knifed to death. She should have taken care of herself better, kid."
 
I never want anything to happen to my family, along with most people here who would agree with that statement. No one wants anything to happen to their loved ones. But it's a simple fact that none of us can or will be there to protect them as much as we want or should. It's just not possible. There are going to be times when your family is going to be at risk unfortunately and there won't be a damn thing you can do about it. That's a point that no one here can argue with me.

What bothers me about this whole discussion is the growing number of people who would have to *think* about helping my family if they were in trouble. Many won't just come out and say it, but I feel from some of the attitudes I hear in this discussion that there are far too many people who would rather watch than act. I guess it's something you just have to have within you. Something that compells you to WANT to be that person who can, will, and must step in to try and make the difference in someone else's life. I, like tanksoldier, are one of those people and I agree with his statements above.

Whether I'm doing my duty as a firefighter on the job helping people or I'm simply the guy driving along who sees someone in desperate need I feel it's my moral and ethical obligation to try and do what I can to make the difference. If it were any different, I'd be disgracing myself and disgracing my family for looking the other way. I said it before, If you can't do it for someone else, you can't expect someone else to do it for you. That goes for your family too. If you have the opportunity to act and you look the other way for whatever reason sounds good to you at the time and you can justify it any way you want, you better be DAMN hopeful that there is someone like me there when your family needs someone besides a bystander.

I might be the only thing that makes the difference between you hugging your family and you hugging a casket. And for those who would rather turn the other way, I just want to say "thanks for nothing".
 
Avoid refereeing/rescueing a Domestic Violence Situation

Anecdotal: neighbor's very pretty wife crying her eyes out 'call the police - he hit me - please call the police!' The next day she says: 'I'm sure glad you didn't call the police - it was just a spat.' It wasn't just a ''spat' - but (my gun was left safe at home not involved at all!!!!! Not a place or situation to bring one!) I did ask if she was hurt from the violence... She said 'no' and I walked away(my hand was itching to dial 9/11 - not to be near a gun...and the bottom line...is my dog was not in that disgusting fight...and I let it go...)
You don't need a gun to be a hero; you might however need a cell phone!
Even then...the cell phone...was left in condition 1. Yawning... :barf:
There are very few situations in which you will ever need a gun, and there are many many many situations where the very last thing you need - is a 'gun.'
In the words of Johnny Cash 'Don't Take Your Guns to Town Bill - Don't Take Your Guns to Town.' :cool:
 
I would but that is just my choice to do so.

I guess that life is so disposable now days that it's just as well that people just turn away and "don't want to get involved".

Just remember, what goes around, comes around ;) As in, what if you're in that situation one day, and are looking around pleading for help, as people do as you have done, just walk away, "just don't want to get involved". They also have families, so why should they risk themselves for you, just a stranger to care less about.

Not "hero" talk (now I know what Wild was referring to), just plan civilized morality at work.

Nothing less, nothing more.

Wayne
 
I don't even know where to begin. Cops don't get paid enough to risk their lives (neither do Soldiers, come to that). Volunteer firefighters aren't getting paid anything at all. They aren't doing it for the money, why should lack of money stop you?

For a cop it is easy - do your duty ( it's what you get paid for.)
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I'm married. I have an obligation to my wife. I went to Iraq twice, and would go again if I could. Firefighters have obligations to their families. Again, nobody who risks their life gets paid enough... how much is their life worth? Would it be OK with you if the firedepartment refused to rescue your family because they didn't think it was worth risking their lives? Is it OK for a cop to refuse to help your kids because of his obligation to his own kids?

THe difference betwen emergency personnel and the rest of the population is that they've chosen a line of work where they will encounter these situations often. The duty to act if the situation is upon us is the same, however. You must do what you can.

For me this is a lot simplier question when you are on your own. However, when you are married, have dependent children (and perhaps wife/parents) and are the primary provider, your obligation to them is huge.
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Living isn't everything when it comes to honor. Not that I want it to happen of course, but if someday my wife tells my child "Your father died trying to help somebody" that would be unfortunate but acceptable to me.

That thought process I have trouble with. You would gladly lay down your life for a stranger and abandon your family to the vagaries of fate, even though they are "well provided for" as you put it. Money isn't everything when it comes to family.
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Leviticus makes my obligations as a Jew very clear - "do not stand idly by while your neighbor's blood is shed."
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According to the Talmud, those who perish while defending a fellow man's life go straight to the Next Life, regardless of their sins or past occupation.
 
Many thoughts on this and none are really wrong

The only thing is. How well do you sleep at night for the decisions you have made during your life?

Guilt is a terrible thing. Public servents are just that. People who think that way are going to go into that mode, or not, depending on the situation.

If you can help and not risk your life carelessly, then that is the way you should do it. Level headed comes to mind.

If you place religion before others or vice versa. But who know's what lurks in the mind's of others? To take a paragraph out of the bible or Talmud is not how one lives there life. Not the way I look at history, anyway. Brainwashed comes to mind.

Some are natural coward's, and others are natural heros.
But not all the time. Very complex situation. Age or ability have quite a bit to do with it.
I have seen people screaming help me, but doing nothing to help themselves.

How about the person who drives like a crazy person endangering many live's as they drive, you witness this for a while and then you round the corner and there they are needing help. What do you do?

I have enjoyed reading the thread. Makes you think you know, but in reality it is very much different. Look at politics LOL...

Harley
 
Here's a real life example.
There was a dispute between two ethnic groups. The reason for the dispute doesn't matter,but for interest only, it arose over a fight between these groups because someone was taking too long on the pay 'phone. The guy on the 'phone was pushed off - he went out to his pickup, got a shotgun, and shot the guy who pushed him out.

The two groups then went outside,they were in a Pub (Bar - drinking establishment) and started fighting in the street.

There was a Salvation Army fellow there at the time. He was selling his 'War Cry' or whatever it was. Damned if I know why they go into rat-holes like this, but they do.
Anyhow, he saw a dirtbag get knocked down in the street and went to help him. Someone took exception to him, or his uniform, and hit him in the head with a paving stone.
After that he was a vegetable. Six months later they turned off his lfe support.
All the dirtbags survived.
Who lost?
 
Living isn't everything when it comes to honor. Not that I want it to happen of course, but if someday my wife tells my child "Your father died trying to help somebody" that would be unfortunate but acceptable to me.
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While that is a most noble sentiment; I wonder how your children would feel about you leaving them Fatherless by trying to save a stranger. Proud? I am sure they would be proud. But I suspect their lives would become something far different than if you had remained there to raise and guide and counsel and protect them, which is a Father's very first responsibility in the world. Any man who believes that his first responsibility is to something other than his wife and the children that they brought into this workd, is missing something about responsibility.

Again, it is a very generalized question, and without specifics no one can answer very specifically. So much would depend upon the actual circumstances that each "opportunity" that presented itself would be a completely new decision making process.

Let me try to narrow the scope then, suppose that you had an opporunity to save a stranger, and the odds that you would get killed in the process were 50%?
 
Butch, based on your post, I am assuming the situation you stated makes the assumption that you have dependent children and spouse.
 
+1 do Dwight55's earlier post. I am not one to sit back and let someone else's troubles alone. I am naturally/genetically (or whatever makes me feel that I am my brother's or sister's keeper) programmed to help someone. Maybe it is was my being raised by grandfather and grandmother. They have always felt, and I think the same way, that if you can help someone to then you should. Just my 2 cents.
 
I have read through most of this thread, and some of it is disturbing, and some good. For me. I'm no hero. Never will be, never have been. But that would not stop me from putting my life on the line for someone.

What if firefighters, policemen, rescue workers, ect. all felt the same way as some and let people die?

I guess it is in part how you were raised, and what is in your heart. It has nothing to do with machoism, or heroism, or chest thumping, ect. It has to do with the RIGHT THING TO DO, morally, ethically, and to remain civilized human beings.

It is not in my mind to stop to think about danger to self when someone is dying right in front of me. You pray to God almighty to preserve them and you, and you do what needs to be done to help. I could not live with myself knowing I could have at least TRIED to help but did nothing. I would be a discrace.

Half of what is wrong with society today is that people have no moral fiber. They have no sense of honor, no sense of duty, and no compassion for their fellow man.

Can any of you honestly tell me that if you were driving along one night, and saw a car crash, that you would not stop to see if you could help? If there was no one there but YOU, and time was of the essense? You could hear people screaming for help, maybe children, and saw that the car may catch fire soon? Could you make a call and drive away? Ignoring their screams and cries for help? Or would you do everything in your power to get those people out of that car, no matter the consequences?

Your answer will seperate the humans, from those who don't deserve to even be breathing the same air.....what if it was your family? I pray to God some stranger in the same situation would help me or mine.....
 
Interesting thread..and I must admit, that I am torn on the subject.

The belief that, yes we are morally obligated to help those in trouble, has has been used as the justification for many (if not all) the conflicts that the government has involved us in. We gotta help these people or those people.

On a personal level I couldn't stand by and let harm happen to another person without trying to stop it.

But what is true on a personal level isn't not true on a national level. I don't believe that because the poor widdle Kuwaiti's were getting picked on by the big bad Iraqi's that we, as a nation, had any obligation to help them

I understand that this is because of my belief that just because we feel morally obligated to a cause, we have no right to force others to fight, die, or otherwise support that cause.

I guess I strayed a bit from the topic..but it, like so many others, have ramifications far beyond just us.
 
Butch, based on your post, I am assuming the situation you stated makes the assumption that you have dependent children and spouse.
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That was my assumption - that you have spouse and children and you see someone in danger and you realize that you can attempt to help them and that if you do there is a 50/50 chance you will die in the attempt. Do you help?

If single and no kids, it's still a good question at 50/50.

The problem is that without a very detailed 3 dimensional scenario to evaluate it is actually impossible to answer the question accurately. Best we can do is generalize, so the 50/50 question is an attempt to generalize on a smaller scale.
 
"He should have armed himself."
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Funny that you should pick that quote. (by the way, I stopped to post a response upon reading this post, so if this has been addressed, I will come back and edit this). The rest of that line is "...if he was going to decorate his saloon with my friend." He didn't shoot the man because he was unarmed, but because he put the corpse of eastwood's friend up in front of his saloon. Also funny because the whole premise of this movie was two men going up to take revenge upon a man who beat up an innocent woman. Of course, she was a prostitute, so I'm sure that excludes her from the "save-worthy" category that some of the posters in this thread seem to have.

Here are the questions that go through my head. I will not demand that you think them yourself, however.

1. Is what's going on here right or wrong?
2. If wrong, how can I help to stop it?
3. How can I help to stop it with least risk to myself and others?

Now, the thought of self preservation is an obvious component of these questions. I cannot help if I am dead. I also could possibly make things worse for myself and others involved. If all I can do is witness, so be it. But I will determine that myself, not based upon someone else's decision making criteria.

I find it somewhat ludicrous that those who would uphold what is right and good regardless of personal expense must defend themselves and their decisions. If you won't do it, I have absolutely no problem with that. I do not think less of you, no matter your reasons, be they what happens to your family if you die or simple fear or whatever. I will however intervene in the best way I deem possible to stop the wrong, for anyone.

This is a general principle that is obviously open to situational evaluation. But at my core is a white pulse that says "I will do what's right and stop those doing wrong."
 
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