PsychoSword
Moderator
That has nothing to do with cops. If I haven't done anything wrong I have no reason to believe the guy's legit. No passionate response or anything like that involved, just the blunt truth.
you hear about the police searching vehicles
- Thread starter tomlj75
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That has nothing to do with cops. If I haven't done anything wrong I have no reason to believe the guy's legit. No passionate response or anything like that involved, just the blunt truth.
Seriously, Prozac, look into it.
Furtive movements, maybe in the light of experience. However, many people don't enjoy being detained, consider traffic stops largely an imposition, and so will tend to have a physiological response to being in a nervous state. Reality check, for many that stupid uniform is enough to provoke that response. Furtive...causes a range of rationals for search, from competent observation to Terry's premised on little more than the person didn't enjoy the cops presence.
The rationale for the dogs, very disturbing. Simply put, the use of a dog is a enhanced search, and well outside of what used to be the plain sight doctrine. Effectively no different from using an infrared device or starlights and etc. Plus no matter how well the dog is trained, the interpretation of it's reaction is still subjective. And what about PD's who obtain these dogs, and the dogs and handlers aren't properly trained?
Additionally,for some in this country, the constant presence of police dogs...could provide lingering memories of the abuses of police dogs during the early years of the civil rights movement.
On the whole, another intrusion, which will erode away yet another barrier between government and our limited privacy and freedom.
The rationale for the dogs, very disturbing. Simply put, the use of a dog is a enhanced search, and well outside of what used to be the plain sight doctrine. Effectively no different from using an infrared device or starlights and etc. Plus no matter how well the dog is trained, the interpretation of it's reaction is still subjective. And what about PD's who obtain these dogs, and the dogs and handlers aren't properly trained?
Additionally,for some in this country, the constant presence of police dogs...could provide lingering memories of the abuses of police dogs during the early years of the civil rights movement.
On the whole, another intrusion, which will erode away yet another barrier between government and our limited privacy and freedom.
I think that dog sniffs should (and probably will be, when we get a slightly less reactionary Court) be tossed. If the cops can't use thermal imaging, why can they use highly trained dogs? Don't give me the "dogs are binoculars for the nose" garbage. Dogs can smell things no human could ever begin to. Their sense of smell is more analogous to a thermal imager than to a pair of field glasses.
TheeBadOne
Moderator
And you wonder why there are folks who believe certain people should not own guns.... :barf:
There was a video I saw many years ago about dope doggies and how they are trained and their accuracy rate, which I believe was placed at 60 to 70%.
In that same video they showed off a project the DEA was testing, pigs trained to sniff out dope. According to them a dogs sense of smell was 1000 time greater than that of a human but a pigs sense of smell was double that of a dog.
Dogs can distinguish between the smells of T-shirts worn by non-identical twins but they couldn't tell the difference between identical twins, presumably because they smell identical but a pig could.
A pig could also detect smaller amounts of dope with greater accuracy the only problem IIRC the DEA reported was that the pigs tended to try and eat what they found so the handler had to be quick on the leash.
I just had this mental image of a cop walking a 400 pound pig around your car, it hitting on the car then going inside and chewing up the leather seats uncovering a pillow size package of weed.
In that same video they showed off a project the DEA was testing, pigs trained to sniff out dope. According to them a dogs sense of smell was 1000 time greater than that of a human but a pigs sense of smell was double that of a dog.
Dogs can distinguish between the smells of T-shirts worn by non-identical twins but they couldn't tell the difference between identical twins, presumably because they smell identical but a pig could.
A pig could also detect smaller amounts of dope with greater accuracy the only problem IIRC the DEA reported was that the pigs tended to try and eat what they found so the handler had to be quick on the leash.
I just had this mental image of a cop walking a 400 pound pig around your car, it hitting on the car then going inside and chewing up the leather seats uncovering a pillow size package of weed.
PsychoSword
Moderator
I knew every cop on the forum would jump on that one. Was just waiting to see the responses when I got home.
I'm talking about people impersonating a cop. You know it's illegal to impersonate a police officer right? You hear about the stories of people impersonating police all the time. How do I know somebody's a cop unless they have a well marked patrol car and some type of visible identification? The fact that I hadn't done anything wrong would immediate heighten my suspicions, wouldn't it yours?
Well ok, as long as fido doesn't try and bite me.
I'm talking about people impersonating a cop. You know it's illegal to impersonate a police officer right? You hear about the stories of people impersonating police all the time. How do I know somebody's a cop unless they have a well marked patrol car and some type of visible identification? The fact that I hadn't done anything wrong would immediate heighten my suspicions, wouldn't it yours?
Well ok, as long as fido doesn't try and bite me.
I have been hearing lately that dogs can even smell cancer. Umm, I'm sorry but that is a little more than sensory enhancement. They are doing something we don't even really understand.
Anyway, legalize drugs and end this whole mess. We have given up enough freedom to keep fools from ruining their lives.
Anyway, legalize drugs and end this whole mess. We have given up enough freedom to keep fools from ruining their lives.
Agreed, legalize it and tax the pi$$ out of it al la booze then just apply what laws we already have for public intoxication, open container, PUI, DUI etc… and be done with it.
Let those who craving dope to have as much as they can haul out of the Meth and Weed Section at the local Wal-Mart Pharmacy go home and smoke their minds out.
The comparison of dogs to thermal imaging and starlight scopes isn't really addressing the picture here, it's fouled - those tools are constantly used on the public streets (helicopter chases, etc) but can not be used from the street to look inside your home because to do so would be intrusive. They actually "look" inside your home to see what is there before any suspicion or PC is developed. That is deffinately an intrusive search...
Dogs on the other hand are just detecting odors which travel from inside the building or car out into the public street. (or wherever they're working) Odor is actually microscopic particles of the substance traveling through the air. The dog's reaction to his detection of this scent is interpreted by the handler to tell where the odor is coming from. Therefore the doggy search isn't considered legally intrusive because he isn't actually sensing what is inside the area where privacy is expected - he's just sensing the odor trail that is outside (in plain view to the mutt) and following it back. (Also why a lot of those positive alerts that find nothing exist - the microscopic particles that cause odor are still there, but the dope ain't)
That's how the probable cause comes about for the officer to do a more intrusive search - there's dope in there 'cause my dog found it in plain view on the street and told me where it came from.
Dogs are cool - but think of thier attraction to butts next time someone cuts a rank one and you remember that the odor is just the particles of that waste that hasn't even exited thier body in other more solid form yet. Ya ain't being intrusive of his shorts as you wrinkly yer nose and grimace, though he certainly (I hope) expects it down there. But them dang particles got in yer nose anyhow... Gag and bear it boys!!
Dogs on the other hand are just detecting odors which travel from inside the building or car out into the public street. (or wherever they're working) Odor is actually microscopic particles of the substance traveling through the air. The dog's reaction to his detection of this scent is interpreted by the handler to tell where the odor is coming from. Therefore the doggy search isn't considered legally intrusive because he isn't actually sensing what is inside the area where privacy is expected - he's just sensing the odor trail that is outside (in plain view to the mutt) and following it back. (Also why a lot of those positive alerts that find nothing exist - the microscopic particles that cause odor are still there, but the dope ain't)
That's how the probable cause comes about for the officer to do a more intrusive search - there's dope in there 'cause my dog found it in plain view on the street and told me where it came from.
Dogs are cool - but think of thier attraction to butts next time someone cuts a rank one and you remember that the odor is just the particles of that waste that hasn't even exited thier body in other more solid form yet. Ya ain't being intrusive of his shorts as you wrinkly yer nose and grimace, though he certainly (I hope) expects it down there. But them dang particles got in yer nose anyhow... Gag and bear it boys!!
TheeBadOne
Moderator
Reading your most recent post (#3), it looks like backpedaling. Unfortunately, your first two posts can be used to impeach the "just kidding" or "I was talking about something else". As already stated, nice ammo to hand the gun grabbers. Show them more: "people who can't be trusted to be responsible with a gun..." 
PsychoSword
Moderator
You can't go through life worrying about who you might offend. They've got plenty ammo enough as is. You can't win a defensive war.
PsychoSword
Moderator
They already do use it to try and catch greenhouses. I also understand that in the People's Republic of Kali, if you have a high utility bill that's probable cause for a search warrant.
TheeBadOne
Moderator
Again, already pointed out earlier, some maturity is in order here. Let the other side be clowns.
jmho