you hear about the police searching vehicles

tomlj75

Inactive
I was looking at the paper and on the front page it said " According to a supreme court ruling handed down monday, police may use drug dogs to search vehicles, even if no illegal activity is suspected." I myself think that that is a load of bull @#%@. I don't use drugs or anything else that is considered illegal but I don't want the police searching my vehicle whenever they please.
What do you think???
 
I don't think they can search unless the dog says you have drugs, unless of course your in New York and run into a D.E.C. officer. A D.E.C. officer dosen't need a search warrent believe it or not.

kenny b
 
That does not surprise me as the international environmental movement has been a front for every type of authoritarian powergrab, landgrab and gungrab you can imagine being passed into law. Now they have the "terrorism" front also.
 
A dog cannot search your vehicle with no Probable Cause. What the USSC said is that they can, at any time, search the air surrounding your vehicle, as an extension of "plain sight/ plain smell" doctrine. The court ruled that you have no reasonable expectation of privacy of the air, which you do not own. If the dog alerts to the presence of the scent of narcotics, then a true search of the interior of the vehicle can be conducted.

This ruling changes little. It has always been this way in most states, with only a select few stating that K9 use constitutes a search. it boils down to the fact that a K9 scanning the exterior of your vehicle is not a search.
 
If you've got nothing to hide

no need to worry...The dogs won't alert unless they're right....However, if you have, or have had guns in the car, they very well may alert, as many are now "dual purpose" trained, for both drugs and explosives (uncluding guns). I have a friend with one so trained...He brought him out to my house and we hid a bunch of drugs(he has a backpack FULL of drugs, for training purposes), in my barn, in my vehicles, etc. We also hid his handgun (in my lawn tractor!) and one of my guns in the rafters of the barn. The dog found six batches of different kinds of drugs, and both guns, in less than 5 minutes.
 
The dogs won't alert unless they're right....

Drug dogs only have a 60% accuracy rate.

While some of those canines have amazing abilities, it hardly makes them Constitutional experts. It is also believed that many dogs will give positives based on the subconscious input of their handlers. In other words, if a good K-9 handler wants the dog to give a positive, he will.

Besides, the handler's interpretation of the dog's input is not subject to review or criticism.

"Yep, dog just alerted."

"But he's just panting and wagging his tail!"

"That's how he alerts."
 
You really should read the opinion : Illinois v. Caballes

A man is pulled over for doing 71 in a 65 zone. While writing up the ticket, another officer with his dog shows up at this routine traffic stop. The second officer is a drug dog handler and on the drug interdiction team. He gets out and allows his dog to sniff the vehicle. Upon alert, they (both officers) search the car and find maryjane in the trunk.

No probable cause. No reasonable suspicion. Wasn't remotely related to the primary cause of detention, ie traffic stop. The detaining officer didn't even have an articulable reason to suspect anything untoward.

The Court ruled it was just hunkey-dori for the other officer to allow his dog to sniff. Did not constitute a search.

Read Ginsburgs dissent. While I hate like heck to agree with her, she's right. This opens the door to more 4th amendment abuses by the police.
 
No, it doesnt. Plain sight and plain smell has been honored as legal for many moons.

Say I pull you over for a broken tailight. I go to your car, and I observe an odor i associate with burnt marijuana. I have Probable Cause to search your vehicle. My ability to detect the smell has nothing to do with the original nature of the traffic stop, yet I have developed probable cause. See how that works? K9s use the exact same "plain smell" doctrine, yet they have a more highly developed sense of smell than humans do. Its the same air Im allowed to smell, Im just using the dog to detect it. There are no rights violations evident.







Drug dogs only have a 60% accuracy rate.

The 60% rule (it is actually 62%, to be exact) is somewhat bogus. This simply means the numbers have been broken down, and that narcotics have been discovered , on average, 62% of the time a drug detection canine has alerted. This doesnt mean the drugs werent there. It simply means they werent found. The drugs could have been disposed of prior to the stop. They could have been in a hidden compartment. They could have been smoked in the car, leaving the odor. They could have been transported, leaving invisible residue. They simply werent found.

Cops develop a sort of a sense. I cannot count the number of times I have searched a car, and not found drugs. Many of these times, I knew, without a doubt, they were there, I just couldnt find them. Might have been in the door panel, under the console, whatever.


The fact is, this ruling changes nothing. This is the way it has been done for a long time, until the Illinois ruling. Most states continued to do it the old way, including Oklahoma. We will continue to do it this way, with no changes foreseeable.
 
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Here in Louisiana the laws have changed. An officer can search your vehicle if he feels you are a threat to his or the public safety. Probable Cause is out the window. Unless I am mistaken, this change took place last year. I suppose it is the result of a focus on homeland security and the number of oil/gas tanks by the roadways in Louisiana, but it is bothersome nonetheless.

Thus far, I have not been searched and when i am pulled over the officer already knows I carry, since it is flagged on my license. It seems they are using this power with discretion.
 
This really isnt the extent of that law. The search of your vehicle for Officer safety isnt as extensive as a PC-induced search. It requires Reasonable Suspicion of Criminal activity. It is simply an extension of the Terry Stop rules. The Officer can search only the immediate passenger compartment accesible by lunge or grasp, and only for wepons. If the Officer happens to find Contraband, then so be it, but the main concern of the search is for immediate Officer safety threats.

The rules of the Terry frisk apply here.
 
The opinion shifts on this ruling will be swift when the drug-sniffing dog of today becomes the gun-sniffing dog of tomorrow. I guess it all depends on whose ox gets gored.
 
the handler of the dog can walk him thru the walmart parking lot to exercise him and if he alerts to a car the officer can wait till the person comes out, detain them and search the car, legally.
 
And, the downfall to this is?


Actually, most departments will not allow these sort of things. We have had great luck doing storage building scans, but it takes such a mass of red tape to do such a thing, we seldom do it. Private property throws a hell of a kink in things, and for good reason. You must have the permission of the property owner to be there in the first place, as "Plain smell" dictates that the officer have a "lawful reason" to be present in the first place.
 
And, the downfall to this is?

If someone dressed in a cop uniform is standing behind my car waiting to arrest me both the dog and the cop uniform are gonna get smoked before I'm in handcuffs. I haven't done anything wrong, so I have no reason to believe what's going down is legit.

Is that what you really want anyways? Police walking around with dogs looking for things to pin on people. Smells like NAZI Germany.
 
The search of your vehicle for Officer safety isnt as extensive as a PC-induced search.


NO, it is just as intrusive. Officer safety is the new for the children phrase. If you detain me, ask me to exit the vehicle, and i am under your control, why doy you need to do an OFFICER SAFETY search. I am no longer in my car, can not lunge for things. Or is it a more efficient way to go on a fishing trip.
 
The "lugne/grasp" search requires Reasonable Suspisciion that a crime has been, or will be committed. If you make furtive movements while in your car, I will pull you out, and search the immediate area. If I find wepons, I will charge your for them if not carried in a legaly prudent manner.
 
If someone dressed in a cop uniform is standing behind my car waiting to arrest me both the dog and the cop uniform are gonna get smoked before I'm in handcuffs. I haven't done anything wrong, so I have no reason to believe what's going down is legit.


First off…

PsychoSword was that comment totally called for? Passionate response maybe but saying you will smoke a cop before you are in cuffs is moronic at best, you are presenting a face of CCW for the world to see here in this public forum please grow up.

Now…

As someone posted already I’ll reiterate what they said, the law has held for ages that as a Peace Officer there are three kinds of police –citizen encounters.

First is a verbal encounter (happens everytime you talk to a cop)

Second is a Brief Stop or investigative detention (You are stopped based on ARS, you are not free to leave at that time while the Brief Stop is conducted, a traffic stop is usually defined as a brief stop)

Third is Arrest

You can jump form one to the next based on what you develop as you move thru the interview a verbal encounter can quickly turn into a brief stop due to PC you develop while talking to a person and a brief stop can turn into an arrest based on the fact you smell weed when you approach a car on a TC, search and find it.

Also I’ve gone from a verbal encounter straight to an arrest based on observation alone, in this case a guy saw me after I spoke to him, he quickly ditched a small baggy which I picked up and found it to contain weed, I never said anything to him other than put your hand on the car and you are under arrest.
 
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