yet another example of cops being above the law.

[liliysdad]

There is no explaining an illegal, unethical act. When you extend a courtesy to a fellow officer, one that you would not extend to a non LEO, that is making one group above the law.

So, every time I write a warning, or give one verbally, its illegal, and unethical? I have this wonderful thing granted to me called "Officer Discretion".

I write at least ten warnings for each citation I file. I would estimate I stop less than 1 cop a month, more than likely far less. So, by simple mathematics, I extend courtesy to non-emergency personnel far more often that I do to cops...

 

[Rimrock]

orig post by Rich Lucibella On the other side of that coin, ask someone like 12-34hom how many times a non-cop has threatened his job because "I play golf with the Mayor". Those never get reported or filmed. Twits exist amongst us...in all walks of life.
Rich

Great name BTW! My late, great, best and oldest friend employed our mayor in our fairly good size city. The problem is more likely with the politican than the cop. Who do you think would be more wishy washy the LEO or some skating political up and comer. Several of my childhood friends went into LO. Yes they were often the deviants way back then but .... that's one for another thread.
My experience is they are more likely to react and conduct themselves consistantly within tight guidelines as if conditioned. OK, maybe robotic. You won't get that from the critic or the darn mayor. I have more than a little experience in this regard and can confidently state "show me a bad bunch of LEO's and I show you a worse employer. Any work unit whether in LO or not doesn't want a bad seed in their midst. Especially LO and Fire!
My concern is the occupation of LE takes a brutal toll on the individual compared to other jobs in the same community and remuneration base.
Where I come from the guy speeding the "vette" would much rather pay the fine and meld back into obscerity than the alternative.

Rimrock

 

[Rich Lucibella]

You get treated as well as you treat non badge wearing citizens.

WC-
Looks to me like Lillysdad and the vast majority of the other LEO's here are treating "us" pretty fairly. Your response fails to recognize that in the least, using the Group Plural "You" as you do. Give it a break, please.

Professional Courtesy:
I used to be in health care. If a friend came to one of my centers for treatment of a sexually transmitted disease, the report to the Public Health Department might have gotten misplaced. That's Professional Courtesy in violation of law.

Cops in our little Town are Peace Officers, in mentality and deed. We all know each other. I've been stopped for rolling thru a stop sign, riding a motorcycle without helmet (before the law was repealed) and exceeding the speed limit. Never got a ticket.....Common Courtesy. (Had I been ticketed, I certainly wouldn't have felt unfairly treated.)

When Wilma decimated our little burb, I loaned the local gendarmes hand and weapons mount lights, night vision and several weapons, though that might be a technical violation of law....Common Courtesy works both ways.

I can't tell you the number of times that I've been stopped over the years by unknown cops in two dozen states for traffic violations and given a pass or a warning. Perhaps my demeanor? Maybe the way I was dressed? Possibly the cop sized up the situation and decided that a pass would be more effective in changing my behavior.

Courtesy and benefit of the doubt can be granted in any human interaction...even an internet debate.
Rich

 

[12-34hom]

Courtesy and benefit can be granted in any human interaction.. even on the Internet debate

+1

Sadly, some will never grasp that concept no matter what the circumstances, their bias and ignorance blind them to reasonableness.

12-34hom.

 

[wayneinFL]

This is of'course not the right answer but everytime I get into a Fast car I want to, well go fast. He's only human and I don't fault him for it.
I have friends that go a hell of alot faster than that and just about everyone I know has driven like a idiot at one point in there life, weather they want to admit or not....

A firend of mine with a mustang drove like that. But he got a ticket when he did 110 mph on the highway.

Often when I was a kid, we'd get in trouble for things my dad used to do. Mom would point that out. Dad would counter yes, he did, and when he got caught- he got his butt beat for it, too.

Just because we all would take a fast car out and see what itwould do,it doesn't mean the cops should blow it off. Even if we are a friend of theirs or a fellow cop. And when pulled over we shouldn't expect special treatment.

 

[JR47]

Somewhere in here there must have been a post that stated where cops EXPECT special treatment, but I just can't find it. Where did that come from?

I' too, have been in contact with LEOs at various times in my life. As a Firefighter/Paramedic, that was necessary. I've also had my share of traffic offenses, some for speeding. I have never received a ticket. I am polite, calm, and willing to accept whatever is necessary. After all, I was the one who broke the law. This normally causes a discussion with the officer, and that has been as far as it went. The same when interacting with LEOs in other times.

The other side of this is the witnessed fools who immediately challenged the officer. They just seem to think that the cop was out there with their name on his clipboard. Yes, they were speeding, but we ALL speed, and he needs to be out there, catching OTHER speeders. They know his Lieutenant, they'll have his job, etc. Gee, guess who going to get a ticket? And it's NEVER THEIR FAULT, no matter how badly they've behaved.:barf:

 

[wayneinFL]

Somewhere in here there must have been a post that stated where cops EXPECT special treatment, but I just can't find it. Where did that come from?

First post:

a local news crew had film of the guy, he was flailing his arms and appeared to be irate that he had even been stopped.

 

[Wildcard]

The Lessons of Professional Courtesy
By Paul Echols

As I was reading a recent edition of Ethics Roll Call, I thought of something that occurred over thirty years ago. When teaching ethics, some of the best examples of ethical dilemmas we can use are those that involve ourselves, and this story (which I use in my classes) has special meaning to me. It is one that bridges three generations, but the meaning is as important today as it was back then.

My story involves an incident that occurred over 30 years ago when I was a very young boy. Although simple, it involves not only ethics in police work, but ethics as a father. My dad died of cancer in 1972 at 48 years of age. He was a very proud WWII veteran who fought in the South Pacific. I was 13 years old when he died and I cannot express how devastating this was to me and my family. He was a very ethical man who, in his own subtle way, instilled his ethics in me as he led by example.

The story begins as an innocent Sunday drive, probably about 1970. My dad was driving, with my mother, my sisters and me in the car as passengers. While driving, my dad made a right turn on red, a maneuver which had just been made illegal in the state of Illinois (it was for a period of years but was later changed). He was pulled over by a Williamson County Deputy. I watched as the Deputy examined my father's drivers license and ultimately issued him a ticket for the violation. My father was a part-time sheriff's deputy, but he did not use his professional association to avoid his responsibility. He could have pulled his badge and used it to influence the officer, but did not. My dad got back in the car, and the conversation was mostly about the new law and how he had forgotten about it. He accepted responsibility for the error and soon the conversation changed to other things.

A few days later, I was with my father while he was talking to his best friend Charles. A life-long Republican who was very active in politics, Charles was also our neighbor. Coincidentally, the Williamson County Sheriff was also a Republican at the time, so when my father told Charles about receiving the ticket, Charles, being a close friend, told my dad to give him the ticket and he would have it "fixed." Without hesitation, my father told him "no thanks." He said he had violated the law and would pay the ticket. Knowing my father, I don't think he did that just for me, but also knowing my father, I am sure he thought about it as I stood in witness to their conversation. He had just made an ethical decision not only as a police officer, but as a father. He was leading me by example. I went with my father on the drive to Marion, Illinois, a 70 mile round trip, to pay the fine at the courthouse. I wonder now if he took me with him on purpose so I would understand the importance of responsibility. This whole incident did not come with any lecture. It was all done in a subtle way.

Move the clock up about 30 years. I became a Carbondale, Illinois, Police Officer in 1981, so that means I had about 19 years of police experience when I encountered the same test as my dad. Like any other cop with that many years of experience, I can't begin to count how many times I have been "badged" by officers I stopped who might have gone through my radar or committed other vehicle code violations. My own "test" came while driving off duty with my family. Ironically enough, while traveling to the funeral of my dad's best friend Charles (the one who offered to fix my dad's ticket). I was stopped by a small-town officer for speeding about 5 miles an hour over the limit in town. A minor infraction, but I had still broken the law. Here was the ultimate test, with my wife, small son and daughter in the car. So, what happened? Without even thinking, I pulled my badge and failed miserably! My first thought had nothing to do with the example my father had demonstrated so many years earlier. It had nothing to do with money; I have more money than my father did, and could have paid the fine much more easily than he was able to. I thought nothing about my impressionable children inside the car watching me as I displayed my badge. It just happened naturally. After some general conversation with the officer, just like the cops to whom I have given breaks, I got into the car and we continued our trip to the funeral home. By the time I got there, I had forgotten all about it. But someone else had not forgotten, and that changed things.

As I stood with several people in the funeral home talking about insignificant things, my small daughter joined in the conversation and proudly told those listening, "dad got stopped for speeding on the way here, but he pulled his badge and did not get a ticket!" Her moment of pride was my moment of dishonor! A sense of failure as a father came over me. I realized I had failed a very important ethical test, and not just by using my positional power / professional courtesy to get out of a ticket. When my daughter spoke that night, it was clear that by using that power in that way, I had missed an important opportunity to demonstrate character and responsibility to my children as my father had done for me. I honestly wish I had the moment back, but it is gone. The impression I left with my children that day was that being a cop puts you above the law. I have no way of knowing if that officer would have written me a ticket that day, but if he had, what a small price to pay for something so priceless. Pulling your badge on a traffic stop is an ethical decision all police officers have to make for themselves. But whether anyone is with you or not, you are setting the example.

My father would not have been proud of me that day. But maybe by recognizing my mistake and presenting it to others, I can salvage some good from it. That would be something my father would be proud of. He knew how to build character; it came easy to him since he already had it. As for me, I am still learning. But my badge stays in my pocket next time.

Paul Echols is a Sergeant with the Carbondale, Illinois, Police Department, and a 1995 graduate of the Ethics Train-the-Trainer class. A graduate of the 188th Session of the F.B.I. National Academy, he is finishing work on his Master's degree in Public Administration.
http://www.slei.org/ilea/winter02/lessons.html

 

[Michigan Mason]

Firstly I come from a LE family with many generations involved in LE to some degree. There are some things that can be overlooked if there was no one hurt. As for going 100mph that should require at least a ticket.
There usually is nothing that praises the police for the job they do in the local papers or news channels unless it is a major event.
2 situations where I am aware of where something should have been done....
1 At a Detroit Tigers game an off duty police officer was drinking several of the large beers and a ball came close to his seat( had a seat on the sidline and could reach the field with his hand) he leaned over to get it and caught on camera his gun falls out of his shirt and onto the field. Security came and talked to him and then left. Police dept release states that there is an acceptable level of alchohol that an officer can have in his system while carrying a weapon. Camera caught this guy drinking several of these huge beers. No repremand or anything. Even though Michigan law states no measurable amount of alcohol in person carrying a gun. Does not exclude officers. Dept policy does not over ride state law. Was anyone hurt? no but still should have at least been escorted out for carrying in an entertainment facility and for carrying in a place that sells booze for consumption. Illegal by state law.
2 Local police chief crashes new patrol car on way home from picking it up. Over the legal limit of BAC no ticket is collecting full pay and will continue to do so until he is able to retire but has no Law Enforcement powers.
I do not want to be accused of LEO bashing but there are a few bad apples out there that need to be made examples of so that others will change behavior.

 

[Wildcard]

Professional Courtesy leads to things like the article below happening. Now, read this article. Then ask yourself 1 question. If you are I, a non badge wearing citizen, did this, would we be charged with menacing, a misdemeanor. Or would we be charged different. This is the result of LEO professional courtesy. It starts with tickets and ends up with this.

Bully-mad dad aims
gun at boy, 10

BY ERIN EINHORN and ALISON GENDAR
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS

Antione Hodges, 10, standing by his house in Queens, was threatened at gunpoint by the father of a school mate.
Jamming the barrel of a handgun into a fifth-grader's belly, an enraged Queens parent threatened to shoot the boy in his school playground yesterday - all because he had punched the man's son - the boy and witnesses said.

"I started to cry. I was thinking he was going to shoot me," the terrified student, Antoine Hodges, 10, told the Daily News.

Antoine said he was walking through the schoolyard of Public School 50 in Jamaica at about 8:15 a.m. when Carlos Ugarte, a federal immigration officer, ran up and grabbed him by the collar.

"Were you messing with my son?" Ugarte asked Antoine, according to the boy.

"Yeah," Antoine responded.

His one-word response allegedly prompted Ugarte - a criminal investigator with the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement - to brandish his weapon and press it against the boy's stomach, Antoine said.

When Antoine started to cry, Ugarte barked, "Don't cry now. Don't cry now," the boy said.

Stunned students and their horrified parents gathered around Antoine and Ugarte. When several people began screaming, Ugarte bolted, witnesses said.

Some parents, seeing the gun but not knowing what was happening, believed Antoine was being kidnapped, said Jason Croome, who witnessed the bizarre scene while dropping off his 7-year-old daughter.

Alerted by school officials and parents, cops began searching for Ugarte and he soon turned himself in at the 103rd Precinct stationhouse. He was only charged with menacing, a misdemeanor, police said.

It wasn't immediately known if the gun was loaded.

Federal authorities put Ugarte on administrative duty and stripped him of his gun and badge pending an investigation, an ICE spokesman said.

Antoine told The News that he had tattled on Ugarte's son, Carlos Jr., when he spoke out of turn in class on Thursday.

When the boys were standing in line at dismissal later in the day, Carlos shoved Antoine and then Antoine slugged him, Antoine said.

An assistant principal pulled the boys apart and said the squabble would be dealt with the next day.

But Ugarte apparently wasn't willing to wait for school officials to settle the dispute. After confronting Antoine outside the school yesterday, Ugarte made him and his son shake hands and agree not to fight, police sources said.

Ugarte, an Army reservist who served in Iraq, then pulled his weapon and warned: "I'll arrest you if you mess with my kid again," police sources said.

Antoine's parents, Denise and Detrich Odom, were furious yesterday.

"I'm shocked. I don't understand how some tit-for-tat between the boys could turn into something like this," said Denise Odom, 36.

Antoine's parents said he told them he never wanted to go back to school, but they have convinced him he'll be okay.

"I should be safe in my environment from lunatics like this," the boy said.

With Oren Yaniv


Originally published on March 18, 2006

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/400739p-339441c.html

 

[Rimrock]

I almost forgot about one rabid SOB who thought he was goin' to win the war on drugs single handedly by pullin' a gun and stickin' his barkin' German sheps teeth within eyelashes of me ,my wife and our 3 and 5 year old boys. It was months before they were able to sleep.
An innocent family in search of a nice summer home in the mountains. He must have waited months for his time in the sun and all he got was us.
unfortunately he's "no longer with us" as they say. Something about picking fruit in a neighboring state! Bye Now!
That little three year old boy just graduated highest honors in two majors from a "top ten" university (US News & WR) and will be attending one of the top five law school in the nation. Often wondered what influence that POS had on our son. I know that boy's got a memory like an elephant.

Rimrock

 

[IndianaDean]

Remember the New Jersey cops who were speeding through Virginia at 100 mph last summer? The ones who got pulled over by Va cops, then cops blasted the Va guys for not looking the other way?

I went to a police forum (forums.realpolice.net/) and asked them what they thought about the Va situation and my question was deleted from the forum. And, in one thread that I saw, almost every single cop participating was against the Va cops for pulling over the NJ guys.

Cops are supposed to enforce the law, not be above it.

 

[Powderman]

This is the result of LEO professional courtesy. It starts with tickets and ends up with this.

Yeah. Of course, this is not an example of a criminal act, where ANYONE should be prosecuted. This is, of course, an example of ALL cops who extend professional courtesy, right?

Thanks a bunch, fella.

WC-
Looks to me like Lillysdad and the vast majority of the other LEO's here are treating "us" pretty fairly. Your response fails to recognize that in the least, using the Group Plural "You" as you do. Give it a break, please.

Rich:

Thank you, sir.

 

[Jeff22]

police misbehavior

I've been a cop since May of 1981.

Police should be held to a much higher standard of performance and behavior than the general publicThis is a consequence of their position. If they can't obey the law or conduct their lives appropriately, they don't need to be the police. period.

I won't give a cop on a traffic stop a break I wouldn't give a citizen, under the same circumstances. Cops talk about "professional courtesy". Well, the first part of that term is the word "professional". If you act like a professional, you'll get treated like one.

You should know better than to be stupid and put another cop in an awkward position.

 

[Bobshouse]

My agency will impose disciplinary action against anyone who uses their position to gain favor. If I was to get pulled over for a traffic violation off duty, according to my agencies policy, I can't legally identify myself as a LEO. We cannot request discounts at restaurants or doughnut shops either.

A few have tried to circumvent the system by carrying their driver's licenses in their credentials. So when stopped they pull out the ol'credential, kinda flash it while pulling out their license in hopes that the traffic cop will see the ID and let them go. My agency found out about this and banned anyone from using their credentials for anything other than official identification... drivers licenses had to be carried in your wallet, not your credential case.

Personally, I would never jeopardize my career by trying for "professional courtesy" to get out of a measly traffic ticket.

Bob

 

[Sarge]

We cannot request discounts at restaurants or doughnut shops either.

That's it dammit... I quit! 25 years of blood, sweat, tears and bullets down the drain. Write me a ticket for speeding off-duty if you want, but DO NOT screw with my doughnut discount.

 

[jcoiii]

We don't live by a double standard - like many of you do, and we are SICK of hearing the mantra of "A few bad apples" used to excuse your double standard.

No, you just expect to be let off with a warning

 

[Wildcard]

Another example from a favorite forum:

Charges Filed Against Officer in Deadly Accident

This really sucks. Seems like it could set a bad precedence for LEO's who get into accidents while doing their jobs. It's a really sad situation, but it sucks that he's not somehow protected given the fact that it's his job...

The people who's car he hit didn't have any tail lights I guess. They weren't wearing seat belts either...

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=178899

"Prosecutors have presented a list of charges against the Nevada Highway Patrol trooper accused of killing several members of a Utah family in a car crash on Interstate 15.

David Roger/District Attorney: "The main charges are five counts of reckless driving."

The car crash happened a month ago just south of Las Vegas. Court papers released today say Trooper Joshua Corcran was speeding well over 100 miles an hour when he slammed into another car and killed four people from St. George.

Corcran is facing a total of nine counts, including involuntary manslaughter and reckless driving. A warrant has been issued for his arrest.

The police report goes on to say Corcran was solely responsible for the crash. He was not handling any emergencies. He was not involved in a high speed chase. His emergency lights and siren were not on.

Investigators believe the Cadillac was going about 52 miles per hour in the 65 mile per hour zone. When Trooper Corcran's Ford hit the Cadillac, the impact was so great that three passengers in the back were thrown out, and both vehicles slid hundreds of feet before stopping.

David Roger/ Clark County District Attorney: "There is a warrant out for his arrest. Bail is set at 27 thousand dollars and he can surrender on those charges in the next couple of days."

The police report says Corcran was driving nearly 120 miles an hour. His explanation to a dispatcher after the accident is quoted in court papers. He said: "..and as soon as I got in the number one there was just a car sitting there and I couldn't do nothing. I ran into the back of them full speed."

Corcran's supervisor says: "He told me that he had just been driving home to go to dinner and he had an on-line history test to take at home that night. He had handled an accident prior to that and he was making a lane change and all of a sudden that car was right there in front of him and the next thing he knew the airbag was hitting him and here's where we ended up."

The crash killed four of the five people inside the Cadillac including the husband of the only survivor, 16-year-old Cecilia Cruz, who is pregnant with twins. Cruz's stepfather says she and her babies are okay physically. She is now out of the hospital. He is glad Corcran is being held accountable. The victims were illegal immigrants from Mexico.

Corcran's attorney called it an accident and says the trooper was only doing his job and did not commit a crime. He says Corcran feels terrible about what happened. "

http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=517586

 

[pipoman]

Just because of the sheer numbers there will never be a shortage of dumb, abusive, criminal acts committed by LEO. To conclude that these anecdotal examples represent more than the 5% I mentioned earlier would be inaccurate.

We can debate the specifics of individual cases or acts. To lump all bad acts by LEO together and conclude a majority of LEO do the same and are just not caught is baseless.

 

[Fal 4 Me]

This really sucks. Seems like it could set a bad precedence for LEO's who get into accidents while doing their jobs. It's a really sad situation, but it sucks that he's not somehow protected given the fact that it's his job...

How was he doing his job?

He was not handling any emergencies. He was not involved in a high speed chase. His emergency lights and siren were not on.

Driving over 100 MPH without lights or sirens sounds reckless and dangerous to me.

and as soon as I got in the number one there was just a car sitting there

Sounds like he wasn't paying very much attention to the road either.

Corcran's supervisor says: "He told me that he had just been driving home to go to dinner and he had an on-line history test to take at home that night.

So having dinner at home and taking an online history test is part of police work? Give me a break. If he was on his way home, that probably means he was not on duty. If he was, the residents should be pissed at this cop for getting paid with their tax dollars while this cop is sitting and eating at home. From what appears in this article, this cop was clearly in the wrong at deserves whatever happens to him.