yet another example of cops being above the law.

[Geoff Timm]

Redworm commented: "I highly doubt that there's a single person on this forum who has not broken a single law in the past year."

That's the problem. We live in a Police State where so many things are illegal or even felonies, and we don't know it.

I could be arrested for leaving the Wasp Killer spray on my desk as a reminder to treat the entrance area.

Geoff
Who can't memorize even the city ordnances, too many to put in one book!

 

[DunedinDragon]

Like any profession, the VAST majority of the people in it are average to good. A small group could be considered to be excellent, and there's always a small group of "slackers" or incompetents that are simply in the position because there's no reasonable way to get rid of them easily. If you've ever been in a management position over a number of people you know this to be true. But to be honest, it's not the "bad cop" situation that causes this anti-cop sentiment as much as it is the "bad system."

That being said, anti-cop sentiment comes from a number of sources, but IMHO it's the whole "brotherhood" sentiment that causes the greatest amount of problems for police officers. First let me prefact this with the fact that I'm not a "tin-foil" type. I'm just a regular, everyday guy that enjoys guns as a hobby, but other than that I am a pretty typical, conservative Republican, that has a LOT in common with the majority of middle-aged, middle-income Americans like myself.

I completely understand what a tough job being a cop is. It's not an easy job and you certainly won't get rich doing it. From what I can see it's about 70% boring repetitive junk like traffic tickets, domestic arguments, dealing with drunks and lowlifes, and mostly going from one call to the next. It's a WHOLE lot more exciting on TV and in the movies than it is in real life.

But what bothers people like me, and makes us regard police officer's with suspicion rather than respect and make's their jobs that much harder is the whole "brotherhood" mentality ingrained into police officers from day one. Let's take the Chino police officer's shooting of the airman as an example.

Florida is known as having some of the most lenient laws in the US when it comes to shooting incidents. If I happen to shoot someone I can't even be arrested unless there is probable cause that I shot inappropriately. In the case of the Chino shooting there is easily probable cause that that was a bad shoot, and CLEARLY a felony. Even though they have decided to prosecute that officer, to my knowledge he has not been booked and has not spent one single second in custody, nor has he had to post bond. That would NOT be the case for a civilian, even in my lenient state of Florida.

Now you can make all the excuses you want, but to people like myself that is perceived as an injustice, and bottom line, perception IS reality. The reality of how you are treated by the public, the amount of repect you are treated with is based on the public's perception of you....THAT IS THE REALITY EVERY OFFICER OF THE LAW MUST ENDURE.

Writing off every person that has a bad impresson of law enforcement at "tin foil types" is not going to make your job easier as an officer. Fair is fair, there's clearly one set of guidelines for how "bad" cops are dealt with, and another for civilians. That's not always the case, I know that. But there are clearly more cases of it than there should be. The recent example of the police officer killing one of his students during a training exercise is yet another example. A civilian conducting that same type of exercise that resulted in someone's death would be taken into custody, booked, and go before a judge to be arraigned. This officer was sent home and continues to be paid while charges are being determined by the department and the DA.

If you don't like the anti-cop sentiment then do something about it. YOU created it by handling offenses by officers differently than you would civilians. If it were truly just "bad cops", I could understand they just have to be weeded out...but the whole system is the problem, and that's MUCH harder to correct.

 

[Rich Lucibella]

DD-
In part, I agree with you. However, we have to remember that LEO's are expected to involve themselves in violent confrontation far more than the average citizen. To that extent, their chances of of raising "reasonable suspicion" for one or more acts in their career, regardless of guilt, are almost a fact of life. If we were to charge and jail in each case, pending trial or bond, absent a complete and thorough investigation first, no-one would take the thankless job in the first place.
Rich

 

[DunedinDragon]

Rich-

I completely understand that. My problem is once the determination has been made there should be a consistency in the way it's handled through the criminal justice system, and that's not generally the case. And it CERTAINLY wasn't the case in the second example of the instructor shooting the student. That wasn't even a street incident.

Again, it comes down to perception...and the public's general perception is that there is one set of laws for the cops and another for civilians. At least that's what I believe. And in the long run it's the guy that's trying to do a good job that will suffer the most from that perception.

Maybe that would make a good poll???

 

[pipoman]

The fact is that less that 5% of cops are "bad cops" as you put it.

I would go along with this. In a former life as a salesman, I learned from numerous trainers and from personal experience that "5% of the population reserves the right to idiocy". LEO are no different as a cross section of the population.

I would guess there are few people who are not LEO themselves who have encountered and dealt with more LEOs than I have. (Hundreds of encounters if not over a thousand in the last 15 years) I have had some bad experiences, witnessed bad behavior by LEOs, and made complaints to internal affairs. Many of the LEOs I have encountered on the street I have testified or issued reports contrary to theirs in criminal matters. Yet the number of bad experiences I have had still falls into the "5% rule". 95% of the time I and my position are treated fairly.

(As a side note.) In my work as a criminal defense detective, guess the profession I have worked for the most in this capacity. If you guessed LEO you would be correct. I have worked on the defense team of more LEOs accused of crimes than any other profession bar none. This is proof to me that LEOs are not above the law.

 

[pipoman]

Addendum to previous post.

Some of the LEOs I have worked for were charged with crimes because they were being held to a higher standard than the general public. In fact several which come to mind were dismissed or won because of a ruling or a jury was convinced this was true.

 

[LawDog]

Got a link?

From your post, it seems that at least part of this is on tape with local news media, is there a link to the video?

LawDog

 

[steelheart]

A message to police everywhere

Incidents like this are "Bull Feces." If the cops show their @$$es and the supervisors let them get away with it, it is an institutionalized problem. Any average joe who did what this so-called cop did would have been arrested and had his car impounded. The so-called cop should be fired for this - period.

My wife was almost smashed in to by a Camaro full of so-called Indiana State Police officers in uniform once. She had the right of way, when this Camaro comes flying out of the state police post, slides sideways, cuts her off - barely missing her car - and goes flying down the road like a bat out of hell. She pulled up next to them at the next stoplight and they were all laughing their @$$es off.

Another example of a young, dumb full of come so-called cop that needed to be fired, but wasn't. If We The People drive like that, we go to jail. If a so-called police officer does, they laugh about it.

And they just can't figure out why more and more people are distrustful of the police these days. Here's a clue, fellas:

We don't live by a double standard - like many of you do, and we are SICK of hearing the mantra of "A few bad apples" used to excuse your double standard.

If you want respect from we "citizens" as you call us - you have to actually earn it by acting like professionals and actually obeying the laws you enforce on us.

Your gun, club and pepper spray get you fear, not respect - there's a difference.

Respect has to be earned, and you sure as hell don't earn it by breaking the laws you enforce and then laughing about it.

 

[pipoman]

Last I remember LE is the largest category of workers in public service, followed closely by education. The numbers dictate most people will encounter a LEO or education worker who is in the 5%. They are part of the human population. They are not raised on another planet.

There will always be anecdotal evidence if you look.

This said, I doubt too many LEOs would deny there is a tendency, when facts are in question, to give a LEO the benefit of the doubt.

I am not a police apologist. Most people can go to work and come home without having to walk even close to the opaque line between legal and illegal. Without having to make a quick judgment call which may cost you your job, reputation, or life. All the while making an income similar to a production worker. Maybe a little benefit is not unreasonable.

 

[steelheart]

Maybe a little benefit is not unreasonable.

But the double standard is not reasonable.

And if they want more money or safer work, they need to find employment elsewhere - like anyone else would have to for those things.

 

[liliysdad]

And if they want more money or safer work, they need to find employment elsewhere - like anyone else would have to for those things

Give me a break.....Im not even going to respond to this drivel. Never mind.

 

[pipoman]

http://www.bls.gov/oco/cg/cgs042.htm

Local government employs more than twice as many workers as State government; fire fighters and law enforcement workers, concentrated in local government, are the largest occupations.

Law enforcement work also is potentially dangerous. The injury and fatality rates among law officers are higher than in many occupations, reflecting risks taken in apprehending suspected criminals and responding to various emergency situations such as traffic accidents. Most police and detectives work 40 hours a week, with paid overtime when they testify in court or work on an investigation. Because police protection must be provided around the clock, some officers work weekends, holidays, and nights. Many officers are subject to call any time their services are needed and are expected to intervene whenever they observe a crime, even if they are off duty.

 

[cuate]

Been there , done that

Tried the LEO business years and years ago when Blacks and Hispanics didn't hate LE. No gangs running about, a little excitement but very little. Fight with drunk rowdies Friday and Saturday nights whether you felt like it or not, one man to the patrol car. a few continual drunken wife beaters and a few women who called in when they even smelled beer on their spouses. County and City law enforcement always crossways, if we needed them for backup we knew the shooting, fighting or whatever would be over before they showed up and they would make the paper getting congrats for what they didn't do but was done by us. They were fat, lazy, somewhat cowardly, and beat prisoners when it suited them, while we only used the force necessary.

Today is a different world, hours and hours of college required, hated by large percentages of some ethnic groups, traffic fines and revenuing for same the big goal of LE. Among the LEOs there are the good, the bad and the ugly as it has always been and the world if full of ambulance chasing shyster lawyers who respecy no lawman, only the picture of Gro. Washington on that paper money. Give the good LEOs a break, its a hell of a world they live in, I am glad I am not in it!

 

[swmike]

A few years ago I was working on a job that brought me into close and frequent contact with LEO's. The topic of LEO's driving like fools and getting ticketed was discussed many times. In my part of the country, "professional courtesy" was shown the officer that was just speeding or may have smelled like an extra beer or so. The unspoken rule was to not put the fellow officer on the spot by abusing this "courtesy".

Some respected it and others didn't. The whole purpose was to keep the officer's record clear so no "job action" would affect his career. If the stopping officer thought there might be a problem, he handled it in a report to his supervisor, that in turn sent a letter the the "offender's" supervisor.

Now the problem. Too much of this brought about a situation where a State Trooper, who in a word drove like $hit, ended up killing a pedestrian. It took a lawsuit to reveal that the State Patrol had been, for all practical purposes, covering up for this trooper that couldn't pay attention to his driving habits.

The public wants LEO's held to a higher standard if they are going to enforce the laws on them. In short, someone driving a corvette at high speeds, and in a manner that warranted stopping by LE, should have been issued a ticket. The public can relate to that. A disciplinary action, long after the fact, does nothing to reassure the public.

Is it right to be held to a higher standard? In Law Enforcement I belive it is.

That said, let's work on our politicians. Holding them to ANY standard would be a start.

 

[JR47]

I am not an LEO, nor did I spend the night at a Holiday Inn Express. That said, if you expect these people to be held to a higher standard, then pay them as though they were. You want quality? It costs money. We get what we pay for. Period.

It's like the tin-foil tigers who constantly point out how badly America is doing, but who don't vote. Nobody is capable of doing anything right, and everyone but them does everything wrong.They get exactly the kind of politicians that they deserve. Most of the vitriol spewed forth here comes from this kind of creature. If you don't like them, don't read about them on the forum. Nobody here is going to do anything about it, and the same political crap, amended to barely fit the subject, is both predictable, as well as boring.

 

[garand_shooter]

there is one set of laws for the cops and another for civilians.

The public wants LEO's held to a higher standard if they are going to enforce the laws on them

.

We don't live by a double standard - like many of you do

Maybe I'm missing something here but aren't 'LEO's holding LEO's to a lower standard', and 'the public holding LEO's to a higher standard', both double standards?

 

[trigger happy]

no matter how much of a raise they get taxpayer's can't compete with this..

In Chicago, four police officers at the Englewood District were arrested January 26 on charges they were shaking down drug dealers, the Chicago Tribune reported. The four veteran cops conspired with other drug dealers to steal money, drugs, and guns from their competitors, federal authorities said as they announced a total of nine arrests. There may be more to come. The Tribune Saturday reported that according to police sources, the FBI has widened its investigation to include as many as six more Chicago police officers.
In suburban Maywood, Illinois, meanwhile, police officer Arian Wade was one of six men arrested in a scheme to bribe police to ignore drug trafficking operations there, the Associated Press reported. The arrests came in an investigation dubbed Operation Pocket Change, which began last August when a man approached Maywood police about taking bribes to safeguard corners where drugs were sold. Three police officers posed as crooked cops accepted $1,200 a week payments to supposedly ignore drug activity at those locations. It looks like Arian Wade was not posing.

 

[swmike]

if you expect these people to be held to a higher standard, then pay them as though they were. You want quality? It costs money. We get what we pay for. Period.

LEO's pay today is not the pittance that the career was once known for. A probationary officer may not be making much more than a "burger flipper" but consider that the "burger flipper" also does not get a pension at 20 years, paid medical, etc. As they have more time on the force, the pay increases, depending on the collective bargaining contract. Some officers are making in 6 figures today when overtime is included. Our local Sheriff's office just complained to the County Council that some patrol officers were making more than command officers. Likewise most city officers with their "sanctioned" side jobs like traffic at construction sites, fairs, special events, etc.

Are all officers well paid in all cases, probably not. But not like the past where welfare or unemployment almost was better.

 

[liliysdad]

LEO's pay today is not the pittance that the career was once known for. A probationary officer may not be making much more than a "burger flipper" but consider that the "burger flipper" also does not get a pension at 20 years, paid medical, etc. As they have more time on the force, the pay increases, depending on the collective bargaining contract. Some officers are making in 6 figures today when overtime is included. Our local Sheriff's office just complained to the County Council that some patrol officers were making more than command officers. Likewise most city officers with their "sanctioned" side jobs like traffic at construction sites, fairs, special events, etc.

Are all officers well paid in all cases, probably not. But not like the past where welfare or unemployment almost was better.

I make 10.60 an hour. There are officers on my department who qualify for food stamps and State Health care. None that I know of utilize it, but they could. I supply my gun, my duty gear, my ammunition, my boots, my socks, my underwear, my writing utensils, et al, ad nauseum. If it werent for my wife, I couldnt afford to be a cop. When I retire, I will make 60% of what I do at the time I retire.

Im not complaining. I knew this when I signed on, and if I wanted to make money, I wouldnt have been a cop. We are humans, who have the very same issues non-cops have, and some extras to boot. We screw up, we make mistakes. All we ask is to be treated at LEAST as well as a common criminal, which in the majority of instance we are not.

Believe it or not, crooked cops are more times that not, rooted out by their fellow officers. No one wants to be associated with a crooked cop, especially normal cops. No one wants to be a witnes at a Federal Grand Jusry, or a Civil Suit when that cop's crap finally boils over. We extend courtesy to our fellow officer, firefighters, and other emergency workers. If you cannot understand why, then there is no point in attempting to explain it.

 

[Wildcard]

All we ask is to be treated at LEAST as well as a common criminal, which in the majority of instance we are not.

You get treated as well as you treat non badge wearing citizens.

We extend courtesy to our fellow officer, firefighters, and other emergency workers. If you cannot understand why, then there is no point in attempting to explain it.

There is no explaining an illegal, unethical act. When you extend a courtesy to a fellow officer, one that you would not extend to a non LEO, that is making one group above the law.