Wrongfully Detained at Wal Mart

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Sousana, I had a similar incident at the University Coop bookstore some months ago. First, I had to go find an ATM and get $360 in cash, because they don't accept Mastercard! Then, when leaving the store, a security guard blocked my path, grabbed my arm and told me I had to go over to the wall and wait for them to inspect my bag. I protested, but they said that it was store policy. They looked through the bag, found nothing stolen and finally let me go.

They weren't pulling people to the side because of any actual evidence of shoplifting, they were just randomly picking people out and detaining them.
 
Many years ago while sitting in a card game, no money so legal, was discussin with an individual, who had spent several years in a Marine Lockup in Lejeune. What he told was that if your hands come up past your waist its assualt, and if you touch its battery.
Since then I have generally tried to follow those rules. By the same token I have wished others to follow them with me. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't.
Sousana handled the situation properly. He did not overreact! If anything the primary cause of trouble was the failure of management to properly train and supervise employees.

As for the statements about being a manly man and doing different. That's why we make laws to control the interaction between individuals and make it possible for nonviolent inclined people to not have to render major violence on others.
 
My thoughts on the Big Chain Stores,

sousana, good on ya..... what makes me laugh are these hippies on here spouting off about thier 1st and 2nd amendment rights and then forgetting all the Other rights and Laws in the constitution. You as a citizen have a right to go thru your life without being manhandled or Improperly Detained.

Here in Canada Walmart stopped selling guns in thier stores after the peaceniks got a petition together for the nanaimo store saying they didn't want Guns sold in thier Chain Store in thier Town...... bunch of Hippies.

I choose not to shop at the Larger Chain Stores, for me the prospect of spending an Extra $2 on something is not something to be scared of, I would rather shop somewhere that offers good service and good value. I buy 80% of my Guns Locally and buy most of my ammunition from the local Retailers.
 
All right everyone...Sousana DID NOT SEND THE GUY TO JAIL! The judge gave that guy his sentence, not Sousana. The Wal-Martian grabbed his arm to conduct an unreasonable search on his property. Sousana paid, the goods were then his own personal property. Those goods no longer belonged to Wal Mart.

Dan
 
Ronin308 makes a good point there, “... The judge gave that guy
his sentence, not Sousana.”

In that type of environment, had Sousana used force to resist the
Wal-Mart employee, it could have been Sousana who ended up in
jail, as a criminal, never again permitted to own a firearm.

By the way, a lot of the arguments on this thread may be dependent
upon state law. Here’s an excerpt from Texas Law, Code of
Criminal Procedure, Article 14.01.

“(a) A peace officer or any other person, may, without a warrant,
arrest an offender when the offense is committed in his presence or
within his view, if the offense is one classed as a felony or as an
offense against the public peace.
(b) A peace officer may arrest an offender without a warrant for
any offense committed in his presence or within his view.”

The powers of “citizen’s arrest” vary from state to state and
are limited. For example, in Texas, if I see you commit a
felony I can arrest you. But if you get away and I see you later at
the local Stop-n-Go, I have no power to arrest or detain you.

Also, anytime someone is arrested, they must be magistrated
(except for Class C misdemeanors). Not even an arresting peace
officer can “UN-arrest” someone.

Article 14.06, “... the person making the arrest shall take the person
arrested or have him taken without unnecessary delay before the
magistrate ...”
So if you make a citizen’s arrest in Texas, you better be able to
back it up!
-----

Also, again only in Texas, I believe the law permits the manager
(and possibly his representative) to detain a person believed to be a
shoplifter. Most stores wait until the shoplifter leaves the premises,
but that is to improve the chance of conviction.

Perhaps some peace officers can weigh in here with more accurate
and complete info.
 
To Zundfolge;

Do you suppose that if a Wal-Mart employee caught you shop lifting, They would just take the stolen merchanise from you and say, "Naughty, Naughty! We'll let you go this time, but remember that's illegal!"?

When someone TOUCHES you without your consent, that's battery. When someone strikes or forcibly restrains you, that's assault. They know better. The argument that the employee was "forced" to break the law is right up there with "forcing" someone to break into your car because you left pocket change on the center console.

As for Wal-Mart...

Wal-Mart has to be one of the most arrogant chain stores on the face of the planet. They seem to pride themselves on making the process of purchasing your mechandise and exiting their store as tedious and miserable as possible. They never seem to have more than 4 cashiers working at any one time, then inspect your bag again not more than 10 feet from where you just paid for it. The few times I've shopped there it was about 10 minutes to get what I want then 30 minutes to pay for it and get back out into the parking lot.

And good luck finding ANYTHING in Wal-Mart NOT manufactured by the Communist Chinese.
 
Employee compensation comes into play here as well. Walmart employee bonus’ are based on “shrinkage” (lack of theft). When someone steals from the store –ALL of the stores employees pay directly for the loss. The resulting attitude, or “dedication”, results in Catch 22 situations as described here. It’s tough to make $7 an hour and watch people walk out the door with impunity and take your bonus along with it. I have experienced this exit check at Sam’s Club but not Walmart. I have to admit that it really pisses me off, but I do stop. I can’t deal with the long lines or the poor service that Walmart now offers, so I am making a concerted effort not to shop there. I, along with a few million others, stopped shopping Sears and Kmart 15 years ago for the same reasons and look what happened. Hopefully Wally world will open it's eyes.

I’ve never bought a gun a Walmart and don’t plan to. That’s what gun stores are for.
 
I feel that I should add that I have no problem should someone stop me at the exit and ask to see my receipt, I would gladly show them the receipt, but to be physically detained, that's where I take exception. As to everyone else saying that this particular employee should not have the stigma of a criminal histroy, then I say this, we are all responsible for knowing the laws. Ignorance of the law is no excuse, and in the case where someone lays hands on someone else, their is but 3 responses:

1. Allow this to pass and submit meekly
2. Press charges against this individual so that he/she will think twice before doing it again.
3. Physically remove their hands from your person.

Option three is the extreme, but far from the unheard.
 
but to be physically detained, that's where I take exception.
Click to expand...
maybe this is what our whole disagreement stems from.

Just what did he do to "physically detain" you. Did he handcuff you? Did he pin you against a wall? Did he threaten you with a weapon if you left (any of those three and I retract my entire argument)?

I'm just trying to figure out what he did to keep you from leaving, I see no reason you couldn't have said "Screw you buddy" and left.


1. Allow this to pass and submit meekly
Click to expand...
I wouldn't call saying "Screw you buddy" and leaving "submitting meekly".
 
Zundfolge: I understand your problem with this whole situation, but Walmart has absolutely NO right to prevent a customer from leaving their store UNLESS they witnessed a theft. You may feel that sousana over re-acted and that he should have responded differently, and rightly so perhaps, but he did what he felt was right. The general public does not have to conform to Walmart policies. I called on Walmart for years and if Sam Walton was alive today this type of BS would not be happening. Sam had one policy- MAKE THE CUSTOMER HAPPY -and profits will follow. As sad as it may be, lawsuits like sousana's may be the only feedback that they care about these days. WALMARTS sole focus (like Kmart) is BOTTOM LINE. How soon they forget.
 
I'll say this Zundfolge,

Let ME grab hold of your arm and detain YOU as I was detained then you tell me your not being detained. This employee grabbed my arm above the elbow and clamped down, I could not have just walked by without removing his hand, forcefully, thus, to me, I was prevented from moving on, hence the detaining.
 
Okay, I have two perspectives on this Wally world thing....

I tend to do most article shopping at Best Buy. I have never, not once, been physically stopped and or detained by security. Many times the cashier asks that I please take my bag to the security desk at the doors and let them sign my receipt. I have no problem with that. I have been ASKED to show my bag, never ordered, never forced. I have once or twice refused, just to see what would happen. The person looked at the bag, then looked at my receipt, signed it, and let me on my way. Never once has undue physical contact been employed. What was done to sousana has NO excuse. Maybe, maybe had their been a specific and clearly specified reason (ie - we have you on camera and believe you have shoplifted) for the stop, presented as a verbal and polite request providing the reason for the stop and a request to check the bag, all of which being ignored by sousana.....but that didn't happen.

Secondly, I was an employee of Best Buy for two years. One thing that was constantly reinforced, in part due to the occasional belligerant customers, was that you never, EVER, EVER involve yourself in any kind of unwanted physical contact with a customer. Period. The only time I'd ever seen that rule broken was when a kid tried to run out of the store after having been confronted for shoplifting and requested that he empty his pockets. There was videotape of the incident, and the LP rep detained him in the store for the police. I see the situation that either 1) Wally World is to blame for advising it's employee incorrectly, or 2) The employee is to blame for overstepping his bounds.

Did sousana overreact? I can't say, I wasn't there, don't know exactly how it went down. If the employee just used a light touch and asked, then yes. If the employee physically and forcefully grabbed and pulled....no. Also of note....as I understand it sousana was carrying at the time. I don't think it would have been at all prudent to escalate an altercation like this, in such a public venue, while carrying. An overzealous legal-beagle could make that a problem. Considering all the options available (I don't consider being meek an humble and allowing an employee to manhandle me an option), not that my opinion is of any great weight, contacting the police was a proper choice.

BTW - I didn't notice this...might have missed it. Did you request that the employee remove their hand and let you go?
 
Just to nudge this thread a little more on topic, I would like to point out that my local Wal-Mart sells Winchester 9mm for 10.95 per 100 rounds. I can't find it that cheap at a gun show. I don't remember seeing it sold that cheaply online.

Speaking from a viewpoint of a firearms enthusiast and Second Amendment activist, I am appreciative for what Wal-Mart is providing us. Maybe they don't sell handguns, but then neither does my local Taco Bell; didn't stop me from having lunch there today.

I would make an exception for any Wal-Marts that were selling guns and then quit because of political pressure. And even that would be a long, long ways from from S&W did.
 
Preserve Freedom; here here!

I agree with the OP of this board. However, when it comes down to it, whatever corporate told you is an appeasement. My opinion anyway. See how hard they fight and how far they are willing to lie by going to www.imsuing.com. A fight over being detained and searched as well as Wal-Mart's illegal carding when using a visa card.

In the state of Kentucky, our attorney general says that a company may not stop customers to inspect or detain just by way of policy EVEN with the sign saying they reserve the right to inspect packages. Just because you enter private property doesn't mean that you surrender your civil liberties. Customers need to stop those corporate abuses and remember the days when the customer was always right, not the corporation. Who wants to shop with someone who treats everyone as a criminal.

And what about the other retailers who follow the law. Walmart is committing what looks like anti trust violations in using illegal means to gain an unfair business advantage over competitors. Just my thougths. Check out the blog and tell the webmaster at www.imsuing.com what you think.
 
I no longer stop for the alarm or receipt checking deal. I once had an incident with a very rude employee who would not let me leave after emptiying my pockets while hanging on to my 3 y.o. and two bags. I spent almost half an hour wandering around the store looking for it with two bags of merchandise and my restless, and unruly, squirming three year old in tow. Ended like this.

"Call the clerk who sold me the stuff."
"I can't do that. I need to see a receipt."
"I don't have one."
"Then, I won't let you leave."
"Did you see me steal anything?"
"No."
"Then I'm leaving."
"You can't do that."
"You can't stop me."

Lately, they've eased up on the receipt checking and have store security running around looking for criminals, rather than treating every customer like a crook. What a concept.

They still carry guns out to the car for me. Ironic, I have a 357 in my pocket, and I can't be trusted not to shoot up the store with a 22 bolt rifle. But at least it gets me out of the receipt checking fiasco.
 
I have not read all of the comments after the initial post but I would have had the local fire department on the phone in two seconds as I waited in line.

The fire department dictates which doors will be open during business hours and usually locking anything but designated emergency exits is illegal.
 
I find it interesting that ressurrecting this thread is apparantly the first and only post of the poster. I wonder if she knows what TFL is about, or if she only skimmed over the one thread that came up when she was Googling for Wal-Mart haters to support her cause...
 
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