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sousana,
Given that the employee had not witnessed a crime being committed, (as you say in your second post) then he was wrong to arrest you (assault is a bit of a stretch unless he was using unnecessary force).
On the other hand, according to the Statute quoted in my earlier post, if an employee catches a shoplifter red-handed they can arrest that person (arrest implying physical detention). At the most, if you are innocent, you could get a false arrest charge. Where, in the following quote, was it "assault"?
You stated:
" 18-4-407 - Questioning of person suspected of theft without liability.
If any person triggers an alarm or a theft detection device as defined in section 18-4-417 (2) or conceals upon his person or otherwise carries away any unpurchased goods, wares, or merchandise held or owned by any store or mercantile establishment, the merchant or any employee thereof or any peace officer, acting in good faith and upon probable cause based upon reasonable grounds therefor, may detain and question such person, in a reasonable manner for the purpose of ascertaining whether the person is guilty of theft. Such questioning of a person by a merchant, merchant's employee, or peace or police officer does not render the merchant, merchant's employee, or peace officer civilly or criminally liable for slander, false arrest, false imprisonment, malicious prosecution, or unlawful detention. "
For other Colorado Statutes
especially as they relate to gun ownership and carry
http://64.78.178.125/stat01/index.htm
Given that the employee had not witnessed a crime being committed, (as you say in your second post) then he was wrong to arrest you (assault is a bit of a stretch unless he was using unnecessary force).
On the other hand, according to the Statute quoted in my earlier post, if an employee catches a shoplifter red-handed they can arrest that person (arrest implying physical detention). At the most, if you are innocent, you could get a false arrest charge. Where, in the following quote, was it "assault"?
You stated:
One could say that you used your LEO status to get special treatment. Also, as with too many LEO's, they figure that only they are allowed to "play cop" and, for that matter, carry guns. That's why so many chiefs and sheriffs and LEO's in general are against CCW.
" 18-4-407 - Questioning of person suspected of theft without liability.
If any person triggers an alarm or a theft detection device as defined in section 18-4-417 (2) or conceals upon his person or otherwise carries away any unpurchased goods, wares, or merchandise held or owned by any store or mercantile establishment, the merchant or any employee thereof or any peace officer, acting in good faith and upon probable cause based upon reasonable grounds therefor, may detain and question such person, in a reasonable manner for the purpose of ascertaining whether the person is guilty of theft. Such questioning of a person by a merchant, merchant's employee, or peace or police officer does not render the merchant, merchant's employee, or peace officer civilly or criminally liable for slander, false arrest, false imprisonment, malicious prosecution, or unlawful detention. "
For other Colorado Statutes
especially as they relate to gun ownership and carry
http://64.78.178.125/stat01/index.htm
Mike Irwin
Staff
"IMO, spending locally tends to keep money circulating within the community. Spending it at large chain stores tends to send it out."
Yes and no, but really to no greater degree than having 1 superstore replace 5 mom and pop shops.
The Mom and Pops have to get their stock from somewhere, and it's just as likely to be from somewhere else.
The WalMart also generates jobs in the community, which usually means that a larger proportion of the money generated stays locally due to the greater number of employees.
One thing that WalMart has done in the past that isn't really well know is that WalMart will often not only go to the local Mom and Pops that are speciality stores, but it will often offer those people managerial positions in the WalMart in addition to buyouts.
Why?
Because they already know the product line they're working with, which reduces the amount of training and searching that is needed to get a qualified, experienced manager into a position.
Yes and no, but really to no greater degree than having 1 superstore replace 5 mom and pop shops.
The Mom and Pops have to get their stock from somewhere, and it's just as likely to be from somewhere else.
The WalMart also generates jobs in the community, which usually means that a larger proportion of the money generated stays locally due to the greater number of employees.
One thing that WalMart has done in the past that isn't really well know is that WalMart will often not only go to the local Mom and Pops that are speciality stores, but it will often offer those people managerial positions in the WalMart in addition to buyouts.
Why?
Because they already know the product line they're working with, which reduces the amount of training and searching that is needed to get a qualified, experienced manager into a position.
Seems to me you took advantage of the law to punish someone, not for assaulting/detaining you but for having the audacity to disrespect you in public.
Ah... the mantra of the police state.
Law without mercy is tyranny.
As for K-mart ... I'd have a hard time passing that deal up myself
Ha! I can't believe some of these responses. Let's bring this back to basics.
THIS COMPANY STOPPED SELLING HANDGUNS!! Yet anyone who attacks it is called a Commie?!?! Talk about the world turned upside down! Good gravy.
I suppose you Wal-Mart defenders will end up getting the world you deserve. Just don't come crying to this board when they decide they're not going to sell you any guns anymore.
THIS COMPANY STOPPED SELLING HANDGUNS!! Yet anyone who attacks it is called a Commie?!?! Talk about the world turned upside down! Good gravy.
I suppose you Wal-Mart defenders will end up getting the world you deserve. Just don't come crying to this board when they decide they're not going to sell you any guns anymore.
So I take it you don't shop at Sears either, I mean THIS COMPANY STOPPED SELLING SUB MACHINE GUNS AND HANDGUNS!! (through their mail order catalog no less). Other then gun shops I doubt you'll find a retailer that used to sell handguns that does now.
The reason WalMart stopped selling handguns is mostly because of all the government red tape involved in stocking and selling them...I don't blame them for stopping. Blame Clinton, Brady, the BATF, the DNC, HCI, and the other liberals that are making it harder and harder to deal in firearms.
Also I thought you wanted us to shop with local shops? doesn't WalMart NOT selling handguns make it better for localy owned gun shops?
Now how many of you guys out there buy all (hell ... any) of your guns at WalMart ... how many would not be able to buy a gun if WalMart stopped selling them?
If WalMart stops selling guns I doubt the world will end or the 2nd amendment will be revoked.
ok, one more
yankytrash
New member
Souhhhhh, when did Wal-Mart stop selling handguns? Maybe your store did, but mine didn't. That's the people's fault for letting it happen.
I get nothing but friendly service from Wal-Mart. Got stopped once for a knife I was buying that didn't get de-magnetized at check-out and it set the shoplifter buzzer off. My face got red at the announcement and they told me it happens all the time. They got me out of there quick as possible to avoid my embarassment.
Got stopped once again for setting off the buzzer for my own stupidity on not knowing the exchange procedure. I immediately hit the wall face first, spread my legs, and put my hands behind my neck. After we all got done laughing, they de-magnetized the two printer cartridges I got (exchanged with no receipt or box, BTW) and sent me on my way.
Maybe you're blaming Wal-Mart for some issues your community has. I also open carry in my local Wal-Mart, have long talks with the very knowledgable firearms' salesman they have (he's also an avid 2nd amendment supporter), and don't get the first raised eyebrow from the staff.
But my Wal-Mart is also in Va. Tappahanock, Va, where we still put our pistol on the lunch counter while we're sippin coffee.
I get nothing but friendly service from Wal-Mart. Got stopped once for a knife I was buying that didn't get de-magnetized at check-out and it set the shoplifter buzzer off. My face got red at the announcement and they told me it happens all the time. They got me out of there quick as possible to avoid my embarassment.
Got stopped once again for setting off the buzzer for my own stupidity on not knowing the exchange procedure. I immediately hit the wall face first, spread my legs, and put my hands behind my neck. After we all got done laughing, they de-magnetized the two printer cartridges I got (exchanged with no receipt or box, BTW) and sent me on my way.
Maybe you're blaming Wal-Mart for some issues your community has. I also open carry in my local Wal-Mart, have long talks with the very knowledgable firearms' salesman they have (he's also an avid 2nd amendment supporter), and don't get the first raised eyebrow from the staff.
But my Wal-Mart is also in Va. Tappahanock, Va, where we still put our pistol on the lunch counter while we're sippin coffee.
Mike Irwin
Staff
And how about Joe the Motorist's Friend?
I mean, they stopped selling guns TOTALLY!
Let's boycott them!
Oh... Wait, the reason they stopped selling guns is that they went Chapter 13 and never came out...
I mean, they stopped selling guns TOTALLY!
Let's boycott them!
Oh... Wait, the reason they stopped selling guns is that they went Chapter 13 and never came out...
Mike Irwin
Staff
"Also I thought you wanted us to shop with local shops? doesn't WalMart NOT selling handguns make it better for localy owned gun shops?"
Oh....
Ouch...
HOWLING LAUGHTER!!
Oh....
Ouch...
HOWLING LAUGHTER!!
Let me get this straight. The nation's No. 1 retailer makes a decision to stop selling handguns at most of its stores and you DO NOT see any problems with that decision? That decision doesn't disturb you or make you angy?
Just want to get that point clarified. If you don't care, that's fine and dandy.
Just want to get that point clarified. If you don't care, that's fine and dandy.
Cosmoline, you're going to have to give me some evidence of a few things.
1. Has WalMart completely stopped selling handguns? (there are some TFLers who claim that the WalMarts where they live still sell them)
2. If WalMart has stopped selling handguns, is it for political reasons? Or could it be that it is not profitable for them to sell them?
3. Is it possible that if WalMart has stopped selling handguns in some areas, it might be due to laws in those areas? For instance I would be willing to bet you that there's not one WalMart in the Chicagoland area that carries handguns and I don't care if the ghost of Sam Wall came down (or if you prefer UP) and demanded it, it ain't gonna happen.
There are plenty of reasons why a large retailer would decide to stop carrying a certain product that have nothing to do with politics.
WalMart still carries long guns and ammo for long, shot and handguns so I doubt the company has some sort of anti gun agenda.
Additionaly I fail to see why it worries you that WalMart doesn't sell handguns...if you don't want people shopping there why do you care what they carry?
1. Has WalMart completely stopped selling handguns? (there are some TFLers who claim that the WalMarts where they live still sell them)
2. If WalMart has stopped selling handguns, is it for political reasons? Or could it be that it is not profitable for them to sell them?
3. Is it possible that if WalMart has stopped selling handguns in some areas, it might be due to laws in those areas? For instance I would be willing to bet you that there's not one WalMart in the Chicagoland area that carries handguns and I don't care if the ghost of Sam Wall came down (or if you prefer UP) and demanded it, it ain't gonna happen.
There are plenty of reasons why a large retailer would decide to stop carrying a certain product that have nothing to do with politics.
WalMart still carries long guns and ammo for long, shot and handguns so I doubt the company has some sort of anti gun agenda.
Additionaly I fail to see why it worries you that WalMart doesn't sell handguns...if you don't want people shopping there why do you care what they carry?
Mike Irwin
Staff
Cosmo,
Did WalMart's decision to stop carrying handguns at some of its stores have the potential to affect law abiding purchasers nationwide by mandating what non-WalMart stores carry?
Did WalMart's decision to stop carrying handguns at some of its stores involve setting up a panel that allows BATF and other anti-gun entities to control its sales and marketing practices?
Did WalMart's decision to stop carrying handguns at some of its stores involve an end-run around the Constitutionally mandated process for passing laws in the United States simply because the administration couldn't get Congress to pass those laws in the first place?
Did WalMart's decision to stop carrying handguns at some of its stores involve promises made, and then broken, but an arm of the Federal government?
Tell me this, too...
Target, to the best of my knowledge, never did sell firearms at its stores. Should we be pissed about that?
Someone else mentioned Sears. I remember walking into Sears and seeing rows of firearms, now all gone.
Let's get something very, very clear.
WalMart's decision to stop selling handguns at most of its stores was a store decision. It wasn't the result of a negotiated sell-out to an arm of the Federal government, done in an effort to curry favor in future Federal contract procurement.
WalMart's decision is limited to WalMart. It doesn't have long-reaching repercussions to dealers and consumers nationwide. Smith & Wesson's agreement certain does.
WalMart's decision MAY have been due to pressure from anti-gun groups, but I've not seen any proof of that here. If it was, and it was a corporate-wide policy as opposed to a store-by-store policy, then I'd be a bit more upset about it.
Quite frankly, it would be a cold day in hell before I'd buy a gun from one of the superstores over a dealer at a gunshow, but that's just me.
Did WalMart's decision to stop carrying handguns at some of its stores have the potential to affect law abiding purchasers nationwide by mandating what non-WalMart stores carry?
Did WalMart's decision to stop carrying handguns at some of its stores involve setting up a panel that allows BATF and other anti-gun entities to control its sales and marketing practices?
Did WalMart's decision to stop carrying handguns at some of its stores involve an end-run around the Constitutionally mandated process for passing laws in the United States simply because the administration couldn't get Congress to pass those laws in the first place?
Did WalMart's decision to stop carrying handguns at some of its stores involve promises made, and then broken, but an arm of the Federal government?
Tell me this, too...
Target, to the best of my knowledge, never did sell firearms at its stores. Should we be pissed about that?
Someone else mentioned Sears. I remember walking into Sears and seeing rows of firearms, now all gone.
Let's get something very, very clear.
WalMart's decision to stop selling handguns at most of its stores was a store decision. It wasn't the result of a negotiated sell-out to an arm of the Federal government, done in an effort to curry favor in future Federal contract procurement.
WalMart's decision is limited to WalMart. It doesn't have long-reaching repercussions to dealers and consumers nationwide. Smith & Wesson's agreement certain does.
WalMart's decision MAY have been due to pressure from anti-gun groups, but I've not seen any proof of that here. If it was, and it was a corporate-wide policy as opposed to a store-by-store policy, then I'd be a bit more upset about it.
Quite frankly, it would be a cold day in hell before I'd buy a gun from one of the superstores over a dealer at a gunshow, but that's just me.
Mike Irwin
Staff
Boscov's in Central Pennsylvania used to sell handguns in their sporting goods department.
That was, however, years ago. I haven't been in a Boscov's sporting goods dept. for probably a decade.
Any PA TFLers know if they still carry handguns?
That was, however, years ago. I haven't been in a Boscov's sporting goods dept. for probably a decade.
Any PA TFLers know if they still carry handguns?
lonegunman
New member
Wal Mart makes its money through volume sales of products at lower prices.
The gun market doesnt translate into that strategy well.
If they dont make money off of them, they are going to drop them and carry something they can make money off of.
The gun market doesnt translate into that strategy well.
If they dont make money off of them, they are going to drop them and carry something they can make money off of.
AugustWest
New member
Zundfolge-
A major aspect of being an entrepreneur is assuming the risk of operating a business, so no, IMO WalMart is not an entrepreneur. Sam Walton was at one time, but it is WalMart's shareholders who bear its risk now. That said, nowhere in my prior post did I say that gov't regulation was acceptable in regulating entrepreneurs or other businesses of any size.
Also, nowhere in my post did I say WalMart shouldn't be allowed to compete, only that I support its local competition.
As far as # of jobs and money in the local economy, I suppose it depends on the community. When Walmart was planning to build a store in my town, they probably would have had to to bus workers in from a city about 30 mi away because many people in this town wouldn't accept what WalMart would be paying. So there would have been very little local spending as a result of these wages. In other communities, I'm sure this is different.
In addition, profits from a local business have a much better chance of staying in the area and being spent there than WalMart's, which are distributed all over the country in the form of dividends, and reduced by the fact that they're taxed at the corporate as well as personal levels.
I'll reiterate, Spend your money where you want to, and I'll do the same. But please don't insinuate that everyone who doesn't choose to shop at WalMart is a communist. It just ain't so.
A major aspect of being an entrepreneur is assuming the risk of operating a business, so no, IMO WalMart is not an entrepreneur. Sam Walton was at one time, but it is WalMart's shareholders who bear its risk now. That said, nowhere in my prior post did I say that gov't regulation was acceptable in regulating entrepreneurs or other businesses of any size.
Also, nowhere in my post did I say WalMart shouldn't be allowed to compete, only that I support its local competition.
As far as # of jobs and money in the local economy, I suppose it depends on the community. When Walmart was planning to build a store in my town, they probably would have had to to bus workers in from a city about 30 mi away because many people in this town wouldn't accept what WalMart would be paying. So there would have been very little local spending as a result of these wages. In other communities, I'm sure this is different.
In addition, profits from a local business have a much better chance of staying in the area and being spent there than WalMart's, which are distributed all over the country in the form of dividends, and reduced by the fact that they're taxed at the corporate as well as personal levels.
I'll reiterate, Spend your money where you want to, and I'll do the same. But please don't insinuate that everyone who doesn't choose to shop at WalMart is a communist. It just ain't so.
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