I see a lot of red dot equipped guns, like glunks, i mean glocks, M&Ps and Xds and even a 1911 or 2 showing up in gun mags. It seems like a new fad. Propblem is it seems like they replace the rear sight, exept the fnp45 tactical. So, if red dot dies, no aiming......would you consider these rugged enough as a primary sight for self defense or keep it to competition?
Would you put a red dot on a defensive handgun?
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DiscoRacing
New member
Not me.... dont think they would handle much abuse of handling day after day.
If they progress like the long gun versions, which I think they will, I will eventually have them on mine. For me, the red dot (read that "Aimpoint") has made iron sights pretty much what they are on any of my serious or working type rifles/shotguns/smg's, simply BUIS's, to be used in the rare, if non existent occasion the dot might go down.
As with anything new, there will always be the initial R&D and teething problems, but I think the handguns are probably already pretty much there, its just now to settle in on the better platform and set up to move things along, and bring the prices down.
As with anything new, there will always be the initial R&D and teething problems, but I think the handguns are probably already pretty much there, its just now to settle in on the better platform and set up to move things along, and bring the prices down.
Misssissippi Dave
New member
Most defensive use of a handgun is up close and personal. Red dots to me are for target shooting/hunting at longer distances. Anything that needs a battery is not something I would have confidence in to save my life.
The simple answer is I would not put on a red dot on any pistol I plan to use for self defense.
The simple answer is I would not put on a red dot on any pistol I plan to use for self defense.
They are very fast for target aquisition, requiring no lineup of multiple dots of any configuration. I would love to have them on my defenive pistols. My issue with them is they are hard to install with out major machining and gunsmithing. Doctor usa optics are among the best and are a major pita to install. Tho if you opt for there rear sight replacement mount, the optic mounts higher then the normal machined in mount. Thus negating the benifits of the doctor optics performance at its normal low mounting position.
Per doctor usa website, if you have a c more mounted you have to aim 4-5 inches higher then were you want, to compensate for the distance between the sight and bore. This problem would only be exaserbated by anything from aimpoint and any dots that use 30mm scope rings.
Id say if you got the cash, mount the doctor and never look back.
Per doctor usa website, if you have a c more mounted you have to aim 4-5 inches higher then were you want, to compensate for the distance between the sight and bore. This problem would only be exaserbated by anything from aimpoint and any dots that use 30mm scope rings.
Id say if you got the cash, mount the doctor and never look back.
At almost any reasonable distance, the red dot out performs the iron sights for speed and hit probability. You have nothing to "align" and the bullet goes where the dot is. You also have a 24/7 sight, that works in any light or lack of it.
The battery issue these days is pretty much moot, or at least with the better grade sights. Some Aimpoints will run almost 10 years, constant on, on one battery. I have older (M2/ML2's) on a number of guns, and I no longer turn them off, and only replace the battery once a year. I have yet to find one dead, and replacements are done with the smoke detectors, so remembering is easy.
It isn't an either/or arrangement. Several outfits offering RDS installation incorporate the taller iron sights designed for use with suppressors.
I've had limited time with a pistol converted for use with a RDS. It worked as advertised. Of course, I run RDS on my long arms, so the learning curve might not have been what it is for some.
As for expense? Since it usually comes up eventually... What of it, particularly for folks with vision issues, let alone those hoping for the speed and accuracy enhancement.
I've had limited time with a pistol converted for use with a RDS. It worked as advertised. Of course, I run RDS on my long arms, so the learning curve might not have been what it is for some.
As for expense? Since it usually comes up eventually... What of it, particularly for folks with vision issues, let alone those hoping for the speed and accuracy enhancement.
As I've posted before, I'm a big fan of RedDots and they are tough enough and in general, provide great performance. In short, they provide greater advantages. ...... 
Now given all that and addressing the question, NO, I personally would not put one on a defensive weapon as it applies to Police Style/Combat Shooting. ...
Be Safe !!!
Now given all that and addressing the question, NO, I personally would not put one on a defensive weapon as it applies to Police Style/Combat Shooting. ...
Be Safe !!!
Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
Over the years, I've put red dot sights on nearly all my match pistols. They're a wonderful help to aging eyes.
That said™, I wouldn't even consider adding one to a carry gun: the extra bulk alone would preclude it, and I have a hunch a gun fight is the last event in which I'd care to be concerned about accuracy. No, I'm not a point shooter; I also can't imagine myself trying for the X ring in a life or death situation: anywhere in the center of mass would count as a win.
That said™, I wouldn't even consider adding one to a carry gun: the extra bulk alone would preclude it, and I have a hunch a gun fight is the last event in which I'd care to be concerned about accuracy. No, I'm not a point shooter; I also can't imagine myself trying for the X ring in a life or death situation: anywhere in the center of mass would count as a win.
Double Naught Spy
New member
I have seen the benefit of such a setup in matches. Personally, I could not get my mind wrapped around the idea after the couple of times I tried red dots on handguns. I think I probably needed a lot more exposure to get used to the concept and how to use it properly.
With that said, I would not have a problem with a red dot on a home defense handgun, but am not keen on the idea for concealed carry. For concealed carry, the sight add snag potential that could foul your draw or otherwise get hung up. Such concerns don't really come up with a bedside gun.
youngunz4life
New member
I am not planning on jumping out there and getting one, but I don't see an issue with it as they seem pretty nice. I almost bought a 38special that came with one because it was such a great deal, but I went with a different firearm.
For pictures, one of the shops currently offering conversions and packages (One Source Tactical) has some fairly good ones:
One of their packages:
http://www.onesourcetactical.com/millpistolslidetoaccepttrijiconrmrsight-2.aspx
An AIWB holster that accommodates it:
http://www.onesourcetactical.com/archangelappendixcarryaiwbappendixinsidethewaistband-1.aspx
One of their packages:
http://www.onesourcetactical.com/millpistolslidetoaccepttrijiconrmrsight-2.aspx
An AIWB holster that accommodates it:
http://www.onesourcetactical.com/archangelappendixcarryaiwbappendixinsidethewaistband-1.aspx
I assume you're talking about the dot in the screen type of sight...that said, I've a cpl of objections to them, ie...weight, bulk, and reliability.
For a carry type of defensive revolver or pistol, weight and bulk are of importance. Many will carry only so long as it's convenient and does not demand complicated clothing changes to accommodate. My wife is a case in point...she's got little patience for carrying when it's not convenient.
Reliability is another factor...how do they hold up to the sweat they'd be exposed to in normal hot weather carry conditions. Too, are they immune to a dunking...rain etc. It's the battery that's important here, as well as the screen to some extent I would guess.
Simple is good in defensive situations...the military has an old axiom...you'll fight like you train; and simple beats complicated nearly every time. You can train to use the dot but the learning curve to include the above objections/drawbacks may be steeper than some would allow.
That said, my wife has confidence and is quite competent with her Crimson Trace grip mounted laser, and it's improved her longer range accuracy 100%. She doesn't carry on a regular basis so the sight is mostly used for across the bedroom dim light situations in the 10 to 25 foot range. It doesn't make up for iron sights, but does give a quantum leap in dim light accuracy. The CT laser for us is a better choice...
Regards, Rodfac
For a carry type of defensive revolver or pistol, weight and bulk are of importance. Many will carry only so long as it's convenient and does not demand complicated clothing changes to accommodate. My wife is a case in point...she's got little patience for carrying when it's not convenient.
Reliability is another factor...how do they hold up to the sweat they'd be exposed to in normal hot weather carry conditions. Too, are they immune to a dunking...rain etc. It's the battery that's important here, as well as the screen to some extent I would guess.
Simple is good in defensive situations...the military has an old axiom...you'll fight like you train; and simple beats complicated nearly every time. You can train to use the dot but the learning curve to include the above objections/drawbacks may be steeper than some would allow.
That said, my wife has confidence and is quite competent with her Crimson Trace grip mounted laser, and it's improved her longer range accuracy 100%. She doesn't carry on a regular basis so the sight is mostly used for across the bedroom dim light situations in the 10 to 25 foot range. It doesn't make up for iron sights, but does give a quantum leap in dim light accuracy. The CT laser for us is a better choice...
Regards, Rodfac
No. Too clunky. Too hard to conceal. Too heavy. Too cumbersome. Too useless for close defensive use. Won't fit on most small guns designed for concealed carry. Plus, what are you going to do when Bad-Guy-Bobo and friends are quickly approaching you in a WalMart parking lot - declare: "HAULT - I MUST FIRST HIT THE SWITCH ON MY AIMPOINT 6003 IF YOU WANT A FAIR FIGHT.....".
Ditch the doo-dads, gizmos, Christmas lights, lasers, phasers, and xenon plasma blasters - all you need is a gun that is easy for you to conceal and carry with just enough power to do the job.
Ditch the doo-dads, gizmos, Christmas lights, lasers, phasers, and xenon plasma blasters - all you need is a gun that is easy for you to conceal and carry with just enough power to do the job.
spacecoast
New member
Well, it would make as much sense as relying on the iron sights. In a defensive situation, if you can point your finger at it you should be able to hit it COM by point shooting only.
Maybe for zombies at 50 yards, in which case I'd rather be using a black rifle, but not for more common SD scenarios.
In a defensive situation, if you can point your finger at it you should be able to hit it COM by point shooting only.Maybe for zombies at 50 yards, in which case I'd rather be using a black rifle, but not for more common SD scenarios.
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azredhawk44
Moderator
I think the gunrags have determined that the CCW market has peaked, and now the new advertising revenue source is getting people into "race guns."
So, they're marketing race guns as tactininjaswatoperator models and putting pretty pictures of ninja-ed up 1911's on the cover with web gear and loose ammo strewn all over the desktop.
Why just sell a $1000 1911, when you can also sell an Aimpoint, a funky semiauto pistol scope mount, a beveled mag well adapter and the name of "in-crowd" gunsmiths to assemble it all for an additional $750 or so?
So, they're marketing race guns as tactininjaswatoperator models and putting pretty pictures of ninja-ed up 1911's on the cover with web gear and loose ammo strewn all over the desktop.
Why just sell a $1000 1911, when you can also sell an Aimpoint, a funky semiauto pistol scope mount, a beveled mag well adapter and the name of "in-crowd" gunsmiths to assemble it all for an additional $750 or so?