Would you like a Browning 1911 .32 ACP?

No because I don't think the 1911 needs to be chambered for every pistol cartridge ever made. If it continues, we'll soon have the 1911 available in 7.62x25, 9mm Makarov, 8mm Nambu, .357 Sig, 9x25 Dillon, .22 Jet, .25 ACP, .17 HMR, .22 Short, and .357 Maximum.

I've thought about a larger size .32 ACP pistol, something that's easier to hold and shoot and will have a low recoil due to it's size and the gun that keeps coming to mind that would work perfectly for this idea is... the 1903 Pocket Hammerless.
 
Let's examine another scenario. Let's suppose someone is in a road rage incident. The person is 15 feet away and makes a threat. This person moves 5 feet towards you and after a verbal warning, you shoot once in the leg as a second warning. If that person decides to stop there, do you want that hit to be fatal? Shooting with a .327 Federal Magnum or 9mm may cripple that person for life.
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Warning shots in populated areas are unsafe. Actually shooting someone is ...not what a warning shot is. It's employing lethal force. You probably shouldn't shoot someone unless you really, really mean it.

Leg shots are a bad idea. Why don't police train for leg shots? The legs are extremely thin and rapidly moving targets. Baggy pants are a tremendously popular fashion, making such a shot even more difficult.

The other part is that leg shots are actually particularly lethal. The thigh contains the femoral artery, which is the second largest artery in the body. A direct hit to the femoral artery, regardless of caliber, is likely to cause death from blood loss in literally a couple minutes.

And actually, precisely that happened in 2015 in Iran. A poorly trained guard/officer attempted a non-lethal leg shot on a bank robber, and the suspect bled out shortly. If you google Iranian bank robber, there is actually cellphone video footage available. Be warned, as a man rapidly bleeding to death makes for rather graphic viewing material.

If it continues, we'll soon have the 1911 available in 7.62x25, ... .357 Sig, 9x25 Dillon
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Ummm.... hate to tell you, but.......
 
There is a Beretta in 32acp that is similar to my Beretta 84 that is sometimes available. I could be wrong, but I think that maybe the CZ83 also had a rare 32acp version.

I happen to like 32acp service pistols. My Colt 1903 is great to shoot, sort of looks like a locked breech internally due to the design, and was not expensive because it was refinished and thus has no collector value.

My French MAB Model D looks a lot like a Browning 1910, was inexpensive, and is a good shooter.

My Mauser Model 1914 looks very cool and has a longer barrel than many. It is not completely reliable, though, and is a PITA to field strip.

The best-shooting 32acp I know of is my Beretta Model 100. It is on a light alloy frame, but has a 6" barrel and adjustable sights. It is a tack driver. It's perfect for fun target practice or plinking without much recoil and more oomph than a 22. They are kind of rare, though.
 
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Maybe I was not using the correct example when I said an accidental shooting. Let's examine another scenario. Let's suppose someone is in a road rage incident. The person is 15 feet away and makes a threat. This person moves 5 feet towards you and after a verbal warning, you shoot once in the leg as a second warning.
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WOW, it's getting worse! That's an even more ridiculous statement than your original premise. Don't know if it's the cold, or government, but there must be some serious thinking disability in the Land of the Maple Leaf!:D
 
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Let's do some math about the validity of .32 ACP in a 1911 or any other large size, non pocket pistol:

First place I'd like to discuss is capacity. The .32 ACP is technically a "semi-rimmed" cartridge. For all intents and purposes, it is a rimmed cartridge as it headspaces on the rim (for some, maybe all pistols chambered in .32 ACP) but it has an extractor groove for automatic ejection.

The rim's diameter is .358 inches. Compared to the .380 ACP's rim of .374 inches, that makes a difference of .016 inches in diameter. The difference is negligiable, but in some pistols chambered for both .32 ACP and .380, the magazine could fit one more .32 ACP round over .380 ACP.

I don't think one extra round in a pistol makes a difference. In a revolver, sure because reloads generally take much longer in a revolver than a pistol.

Next, the average weight of a .32 ACP bullet is 73 grains for FMJ, 60 grains for a JHP. For .380 ACP it's usually 90 to 95 grains. At best, the difference in recoil when shooting .32 ACP will be 37% less than .380 ACP, at worst the difference will be 19% less.

For how low the recoil that .380 produces, I do not see much benefit to shooting .32 ACP over .380 ACP.

Finally, muzzle energy from a comparable barrel (I'll use 5 inches for barrel length as that's the standard for the 1911) tells all. According to Ballisticsbytheinch.com, the .32 ACP will develop about 975 fps for 71 grain FMJ, and a little over 1000 fps with a 65 gain Federal JHP load. That equates to about 150 ft-lbs of energy.

The .380 from a 5 inch barrel is generally running 1050-1100 fps reaching 225 ft-lbs of energy with it's heavier projectile.

To go from 150 to 225 ft-lbs of energy with an almost imperceptible difference in recoil is substantial and that explains why there are so many .380 ACP pocket pistols available and few .32 ACP pistols in general.

One other thing I'll mention is due to the .32 ACP's rim, there's a thing called rimlock that can occur. This is a situation that can happen in the magazine that causes the rim of one cartridge to slip and fall into the extractor groove of another round and basically locks the magazine preventing feeding.

It's not a common thing, but it can happen. Due to .380 not having any sort of rim, it's not an issue for it or any other rimless cartridge.

IMO, .32 ACP is quite pointless for use in a large, full size pistol especially when .380 can be used. For pocket pistols and people who want or need ultra low recoil, the .32 has it's place, but that place has been greatly reduced due to the success of the .380 pocket pistols.
 
The 7,65mm Browning is a piss-poor stopper with ball, and hollow points will not penetrate enough to reach vitals.

No, I would NOT be interested in a 1911 chambered in that pud round. Make mine a .45 and if not, 9mm.
 
The 32ACP has been killing people for well over a hundred years. It has also had its share of stopping failures. Just like the 9mm and 45acp has had. When some say a cartridge is a "piss Poor" stopper I really wonder how much real world experience with that round they actually have. I would be willing to bet very little to none.:rolleyes:

The .380 from a 5 inch barrel is generally running 1050-1100 fps reaching 225 ft-lbs of energy with it's heavier projectile.
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I have never heard of a 380 with a 5" barrel. Most 380s I have seen have barrels around 3" and get around 950fps. Thats really not a fair comparison.
 
If Browning made a 1911-32acp full size, that could shoot 2 inch groups at 50 yards, and function reliably with "bunny fart" loads, I would seriously consider one for Bullseye Pistol.
 
The 32ACP has been killing people for well over a hundred years.
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So has the .22 Short.

When some say a cartridge is a "piss Poor" stopper I really wonder how much real world experience with that round they actually have. I would be willing to bet very little to none.
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The best evidence is the fact that they are no longer in general usage among police and military forces.
 
So has the .22 Short.
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Thank you for supporting my point. Some people want to say that any caliber other than a 9, 40, or 45 is worthless. All calibers can and have been deadly. Is a 32 a good choice for SD? Depends on how and where you carry it. You can't always carry even a midsize gun. But a small 32 is better than nothing.

I know a woman that spent 5 years in prison because she loaned someone a 22 short and the other girl killed a man with it.

They both worked at a topless bar owned by the girls mother. (great family huh?) The second girl had a problem with a customer so girl #1 loaned her a 22 short derringer she had. Girl #2 confronted the customer and shot him in the chest. He fell backwards and died right there. So is a 22 short a good SD round? Hell no, but its better than nothing.

The best evidence is the fact that they are no longer in general usage among police and military forces.
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Good point. But it wouldn't surprise me at all to find out a few cops carry some small 32s like the Kel-Tec for a deep cover backup. Not general use but still doing some service.
 
For how low the recoil that .380 produces, I do not see much benefit to shooting .32 ACP over .380 ACP.
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To go from 150 to 225 ft-lbs of energy with an almost imperceptible difference in recoil is substantial and that explains why there are so many .380 ACP pocket pistols available and few .32 ACP pistols in general.
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Ok, but this almost imperceptible difference in recoil is why I dislike shooting a P-3AT, and don't mind shooting a P-32. Also why I find the 1903 pocket hammerless to be almost like a .22, and way more pleasant than my BERSA .380's. I've never had the opportunity to shoot a 1908 pocket hammerless, but given my experiences with .32's and .380's I would expect there to be a noticeable difference. I might add, if they still imported them I would pick up a BERSA .32 in a heartbeat.

Now I get what you're saying, the difference isn't enough to justify less power, but there's more to picking out a pistol and caliber than having the most power you can shoehorn into the frame.

I think it would be a pleasant shooting pistol, and would buy one(in a metal frame) just to have the set of .22, .32, and .380 Browning 1911s, which are about the same size as the Colt 1903, (so not exactly a fullsize pistol).

Its just a dream folks, not ever going to happen, and wouldn't sell particularly well if they did make them, but it would still be kind of neat just to have the option.
 
"The argument for such a pistol seems a bit confused. It's a defense pistol. Arguing for less power in the case of an accidental shooting suggests a rather curious and profound lack of responsibility.
Furthermore, I'd argue that lower velocity cartridges are actually more dangerous since they have a greater risk of ricochet, as demonstrated in the video that you yourself posted."
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Actually, I did read a message somewhere (maybe this site) that someone's father was accidentally shot in the leg with a .32 ACP. (He said his father found it painful but didn't say how bad the injury was.) I never said I wanted to intentionally shoot someone accidentally. So I'm not sure why you get the sense I'd want to be irresponsible. One argument that I think is valid though is the idea that if there's less recoil, then it may be much easier to be precise with your shots. That being said, small pocket pistols don't seem ideal, hence the idea of an 85%-sized (more comfortable to shoot) 1911.

I'm a bit confused about the wording of that last sentence I quoted. The video on Youtube of that guy shooting a revolver is someone else. But I posted the link to his video.

I'll see if I have time to answer other comments later...
 
The only reason .32 ACP is something of a rarity is that when GCA 68 was being written, a bunch of self-styled "experts" told Congress that .380 was a proper "sporting" and self defense caliber, while .32 ACP was a worthless "gangster caliber". Since most members of Congress didn't know a gun from a guppy, they eagerly leapt on anything that would satisfy the anti-gun gangsters, while not costing too many votes from the pro-gun side.

Hence, the .32 ACP (and .25 ACP) were banned from importation, while the "powerful" .380 was held to be good enough for shooting bad guys.

Jim
 
ttarp said:
Ok, but this almost imperceptible difference in recoil is why I dislike shooting a P-3AT, and don't mind shooting a P-32. Also why I find the 1903 pocket hammerless to be almost like a .22, and way more pleasant than my BERSA .380's. I've never had the opportunity to shoot a 1908 pocket hammerless, but given my experiences with .32's and .380's I would expect there to be a noticeable difference. I might add, if they still imported them I would pick up a BERSA .32 in a heartbeat.

Now I get what you're saying, the difference isn't enough to justify less power, but there's more to picking out a pistol and caliber than having the most power you can shoehorn into the frame.

I think it would be a pleasant shooting pistol, and would buy one(in a metal frame) just to have the set of .22, .32, and .380 Browning 1911s, which are about the same size as the Colt 1903, (so not exactly a fullsize pistol).

Its just a dream folks, not ever going to happen, and wouldn't sell particularly well if they did make them, but it would still be kind of neat just to have the option.
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Firstly when I'm talking about recoil, I'm talking about what the recoil would be in a 1911. I said in that post that the .32 has an advantage over .380 when it comes to recoil in pocket pistols, so your P3AT and P32 comparison is what I was talking about.

My point was that IN A 1911, the .380 will be just as "pleasant shooting" a pistol, but it will be a more effective, more reliable pistol over .32 ACP.

Not to mention, .380 ACP ammo prices are dropping due to the popularity of the pocket pistols in .380 today. The price for .32 ACP in the US is going to stay where it is, likely go higher as years go by. The .380 is going to either stay where it is or be going down over time, unless some hot new whizbang cartridge comes out that replaces the .380 ACP.
 
So why are you comparing recoil on a fullsize 1911 when the thread is about Brownings 85% scaled down 1911? Its pretty much the same size as a 1903 pocket hammerless, I must have missed where the discussion changed to fullsize 5" Government models.
 
"Did it occur to you that the rabbit probably died anyway—just in a location where the hunter couldn't find it?"
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Well, I had random thoughts about what happened to the rabbits but didn't seriously think about it. I heard about someone who had a bullet lodged in his body and surgeons thought it was too risky to take it out. I saw a video on Youtube though showing what happens when you shoot a ham with a 10mm caliber handgun. That thing just jumped in the air and was destroyed on the spot. Even the hole left by the .380 ACP was larger than the .32 ACP.

"Theyve got a .22 for plinking, the 380 ACP for people who want a bigger gun with light recoil"
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The thing however, is that the .22 lr is so silent and low recoil compared to others that I thought .32 ACP in a reasonable-sized handgun would give you a better "feel" practice for the hi-power guns. Let's look at size for example. The .22 lr, .32 ACP and .380 ACP are all about 25mm long. And the diameters are gradually larger (5.7mm, 7.94mm and 9.00). And the size (let's round out the numbers): 40gr, 70gr and 90gr. That means the .32 ACP is perfectly positioned between the .22 lr and .380 ACP. I took the time to look at a long list of handgun cartridges on Wikipedia and none have the exact characteristics of the .32 ACP. And besides, a lot of other cartridges are no longer made. If some people still find there's too much recoil from a .380 ACP or even .38 Special, then I think .32 ACP at least in a practice gun, I think would be the wise choice. Prices for the .32 ACP ammunition could also come down if it becomes more popular.

I'll see if I can answer more questions later...
 
kannonk--this is a serious suggestion. Go shoot a bunch of guns a bunch of times. You'll gain a lot of insight (and have a lot of fun) doing this.

If you've already done this and consider yourself an experienced shooter than accept my apologies and go ahead and state what your experience is...it might lend weight to your statements.

As to how effective different cartridges are I'll just throw this well-known video into the mix of a man shooting himself in the leg with a .45 ACP. An unfortunate, painful, terrible thing to happen but the .45 ACP did not explode the leg or even blow it off his body.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYvAxLX6OzE

And I freely admit the video is a single, isolated incident. It doesn't really prove anything except if you think a .45 ACP will instantly incapacitate anyone no matter where they are hit.
 
tallball - You're right, there is a CZ 83 in .32 acp.
I have one and it's an absolute pleasure to shoot. It's my most accurate handgun. It's not a 1911, but it's all steel and near as I can tell, it's about 80% the size of a 1911. You can carry it cocked and locked. It takes a double stack magazine that holds 15 rounds. I have carried it as my main (only) ccw and felt very good about it.
 
I have carried it as my main (only) ccw and felt very good about it.
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Many people have voiced similar sentiments about a number of different handguns.

Might I respectfully suggest that how one "feels" about his or her defensive weapon may not correspond very well to its real effectiveness.
 
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