Won this rust locked up S&W 1917 snubbie at auction yesterday

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Skip the kerosene.

DEFINITELY skip the gasoline, too flammable/explosive.

Use the Kroil. It will do everything the kero and gas will do, but only better. It's a penetrating and lubricating oil.

+1

Put it directly in the Kroil. Anything else is just in the way.

And I think you paid too much for it too, but that's water under the bridge now. I'd hit it with some Kroil and 0000 steel wool and remove what rust you can. If that doesn't remove it, let the guy who does the polishing deal with it. He'll have done it before and will have his own method.

Best of luck and post some "after" pics.
 
After cleaning and repair and perhaps a new front sight. I'd take that old beauty out to the range and try my damnedest to wear it out shooting it.
 
If you're interested in real estate, I own a commuter bridge that I'm looking to sell. It's located in Brooklyn's historic district and serves as a tourist destintation too. I don't have the deed with me but.... once you give me a check, I will go home and get it from the safe.;)

Seriously, the going rate of other guns makes little difference on a completely non-functioning firearm. You got fleeced on that thing. Basically, you made $400 for some worn grips and rusted scrap metal.

If it's not too late, I would refuse the transfer and get my money back. By the time that P.O.S. is serviceable (nevermind fully restored), you'll have as much money tied up in it as you would just buying a decent one from the beginning.
 
Natman wrote:
"....let the guy who does the polishing deal with it. He'll have done it before and will have his own method."

Natman, I'M the guy who will be operating my polishing wheel and doing the polishing and everything else except for hot tank bluing and possibly removing and reinstalling the barrel (if I decided to do that, but on multiple advice both here and elsewhere, I am leaning to keeping it a snub).




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Edink wrote:
Seriously, the going rate of other guns makes little difference on a completely non-functioning firearm. You got fleeced on that thing. Basically, you made (sic "paid") $400 for some worn grips and rusted scrap metal.

If it's not too late, I would refuse the transfer and get my money back. By the time that P.O.S. is serviceable (nevermind fully restored), you'll have as much money tied up in it as you would just buying a decent one from the beginning.

Ed, it would depend on exactly what it was that was making it non functional and exactly what it required to fix it. If it's an easy fix, then I believe the going rate on the same model gun does have an impact on a non functioning one's price. I'm pretty good at making and fixing things in metal. Sometimes I even make my own replacement parts if it's not too complicated or needs special heat treating.

Regarding the grips being "worn". Three of the experts at the Smith and Wesson forum have told me that those are in fact real India Sanbar Stag grips despite the auction description saying they are "synthetic". One of them even said he was sure beyond a shadow of a doubt. They told me the grips would be worth from $150.00 to several hundred dollars just for the grips. So if the grips are worth that much, that definitely mitigates what I paid for it. I also do not believe the metal on the gun is "scrap metal" as you put it.

But as the old saying goes, "You pays your ticket and you takes your chances"....when it comes to an online auction where you can't physically pre-inspect the revolver before bidding. Worst case scenario would be in addition to if those grips are truly India Sanbar stags, that it would be an excellent source for a frame and internal parts. Have you tried to find and price parts for a S&W 1917 lately? They are hard to find and expensive. I could probably part the gun out as parts for more than I paid for it. But that is not my intention.

Finally, I can't get my money back as you suggested. It was an online auction already charged to my credit card and I agreed to the terms of the auction, the item was correctly described by the auction house as locked up and inoperable, so I can't claim misrepresentation. Neither do I want my money back. I look forward to completing this project and posting in the future what my "rusted scrap metal" will look like when I am finished with it.


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Shep854 wrote:
Hmmm. For some reason, that gun looks familiar...;)

Lol Shep. For some reason your user name looks familiar to me too. Lol.

(Shep is also at the Smith and Wesson forum fellas, where I also posted about this project to get advice. Lots of good advice both here at the Firing Line and the S&W forum).




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I'd leave the barrel and put a front sight on it provided that barrel is usable. Sounds like a fun project, make sure you post some pictures after it's done.

Stu
 
Thats exactly what I would do as well. I don't think I would even refinish it. I'd just remove all traces of rust, repair the action, mount a front sight, and "Shoot the h*** out of it"
 
Picked up my cut barrel 1917 S&W from my dealer today. It was in much better shape than I had thought from the auction photos. Even at the dealer's the hammer and trigger worked and the cylinder turned although on several of the cylinder's chambers it was hard to turn and needed my manual help to turn. I saw that the cylinder release button was forward so there should have been nothing holding the cylinder in the frame. So I gently tapped the cylinder against my knee several times and it popped right out.

When I got it home I found out what was causing the cylinder to lock up on several chambers and also what was causing the ejector rod to bind. The ejector rod was easy to unscrew. In fact it was slightly loose. I unscrewed it, took out the skinny rod and set that aside, and on inspection found that the ejector rod was slightly bent and would not eject cartridges fully.

Shiny spot on middle of ejector rod below is where it was bent....
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Ejector rod laying next to revolver.
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So I laid it on a flat surface and rolled the ejector rod til I found the high spot. Then carefully tapped it straight with a hammer. It works back and forth smoothly now and fully ejects. Fixed pretty good with just a few strategic taps of a hammer. However; I'm still going to get a new old stock ejector rod for it that I've found because the big end of the rod where it is knurled is buggered up and the knurling is scratched away and gone from it being bent. It works but doesn't look pretty and still slightly binds on several chambers when the cylinder turns so I'll put on the new one and save the old one for a spare part that needs further straightening to prevent binding on all chambers of the cylinder when it turns. So everything is working pretty good mechanically now and I didn't have to soak it in kroil oil or anything. All I did was spray the insides with a bit of WD40 to slick things up a bit.

I haven't taken the side plate off and gotten to the innards yet. Even still, by all mechanics and appearances I think everything inside is okay. Cylinder lockup on both hammer back and hammer down with trigger held back is VERY tight. Much tighter than on most new revolvers! Not bad for an antique! I was very impressed with its tight lockup. The yoke mates to the frame so well that I can hardly see the seam!! They just don't take the time to hand fit revolvers like this anymore. The old saying is true...."They don't make them like they used to." I'd actually rather have this revolver than a brand new one. This is a T34 tank and made like a Swiss watch to boot!

I took it out back and fired six rounds out of it and it functioned smoothly and perfectly except for dragging a little on two chambers because of that still ever so slightly bent ejector rod that I got hammered pretty straight, but not perfect (new ejector rod will take care of that). Rifling looks good too but you can't really tell from this pic. End of barrel was nicely rounded....
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Next I took off and inspected the grips that came with it, and like the experts at the Smith and Wesson forum had told me from looking at my auction photos, the grips were indeed genuine India sanbar stag grips and they told me they are worth about $200.00

I'm going to sell those India sanbar stag grips to help defray some of my cost on the revolver and after that, I'll only have about $200.00 in it. Then maybe another $50.00 for a friend to hot tank blue it (after I buff out the rust and pits), and I'll have a like new S&W 1917 snubby for around $250.00 Not too shabby when they are going for $800.00 and up on Gunbroker! I saw a nice but not perfect S&W 1917 go on Gunbroker last week for $1300.00! I've seen them go for $1500.00 and almost $2000.00 too. Prices on S&W 1917's have gone insane and they have become collector items. I was VERY lucky to get both this one and my commercial model for the prices I paid.

Wearing an oven mitt, I heated a paperclip with a torch lighter til it was red hot, then touched that to the back of one of the grips. It did not melt. Just made a little brown mark. Also I can see some of the "bark" of the stags on the inside of the grips as well as see different color tones going through the grips. No doubt they are geniune India sanbar stag grips. There is some pencil writing on the back of them that is the number "306" and a name written in cursive "Onama" or "Onawa" not sure if that second to last letter is a m or a w. Perhaps they belonged to an Asian chap at one time.

Backside of India sanbar stag grips showing "bark" going through partially to backside along with number 306 and Onama or Onawa.
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Backside of India Sanbar stags off the revolver
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Top side of India sanbar stags off the revolver
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Continued next post due to 6 pics per post limit....



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India sanbar stags on the revolver.
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There are all kinds of small stamps all over the revolver. Crowns on the left frame and barrel, some kind of stamp that looks kind of like the head of an eagle (but not totally sure) in several spots, some kind of stamp between each chamber of the cylinder on the outside of cylinder, a small rectangular stamp on the left frame just below the cylinder that has some kind of letter or symbol and then says "ENGLISH MAKE" I think. It was so small had to look through the magnifying glass to see it, as I did most of the markings.

The serial number is 997XX on the butt and matches the serial on the cylinder. The barrel has a different serial number on its flat on the bottom of barrel.

I'm no expert on this, but if I had to guess, I'd say it was a lend lease revolver sent to England and stamped with their crowns and markings in addition to our normal U.S. military stamps. Then at some time came back into the U.S. Perhaps while still in English service it made its way to India or Asia and was owned by someone named "Onama" or "Onawa" who put the India sanbar stag grips on it.
I know, I know, it sounds spookily like OBAMA! Lol. But it is definitely either Onama or Onawa.

I received in my mail today a set of grips Smith and Wesson forum member Lee Barner had graciously sent me. I took off the India sanbar stag grips and put the plastic ones with polished wood inserts on Lee sent. They are a lot like my other set on my commercial S&W 1917 only not as thick. I have really big hands and these grips were wider than the India sanbar stags and filled my hands much better. See the comparison between the India sanbar stags thickness next to Lee's thicker plastic and wooden ones....

India sanbar stags showing thickness.
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Now Lee's plastic and polished wood ones showing their thickness.....
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Now two below pics comparing Lee's plastic and wood ones with my more thicker plastic and wood ones on my commercial model.
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Continued next post due to 6 pics per post limit....


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I also installed the lanyard ring that was missing today. In below pic you can see how lanyard ring goes upward into bottom of grip frame and is held in place by a pin....
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Another interesting thing I couldn't see in the auction pics but saw as soon as I got it, was that obviously someone at some time had also installed a front sight and base on the cut snubby barrel. Not sure why it is missing. Either taken off on purpose or came unsoldered. You can see that in below pic where the shiny unblued spot is on the barrel.
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All I have to do now is to replace the ejector rod, buff the rust and pits out, get it real shiny, then put a front sight base and sight on it, then hot tank blue it and it should look like a new revolver....only with the vintage look of a 1917 albeit with a snubby barrel.

After today's experience I feel I did really good on getting this one in the shape it is in for the price I paid.

Edink, you still think it's just a POS hunk of scrap metal with worn grips that I got took on? Lol. Sorry Ed, couldn't resist :D.

I'll keep y'all updated on the project as it progresses in this same thread.

That's all for now til the next episode on this project.



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"you still think it's just a POS hunk of scrap metal with worn grips that I got took on?"

Can't tell. You need to find the macro feature on your camera. Then I'm sure we'll see the rust... :p
 
Mike Irwin wrote:

Can't tell. You need to find the macro feature on your camera. Then I'm sure we'll see the rust...:p

Not sure if my cheap camera even has a close up feature Mike. But if it did, by the time I figured out how to use it, I'd have the rust and pits all buffed out anyway. :D When I'm finished with it Mike, there won't be any rust. I'll update this thread when I get more done.



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Please keep us updated Bill. I, for one, can't wait to see that battered old beauty given new life. I'd love to have a "New Service" snub just like it.
 
Although my 1917 commercial S&W doesn't need any parts, I didn't know if I would need any parts for the S&W 1917 snubby project revolver I just got when it came in. So before I got it, when I saw a group of 1917 S&W parts on Gunbroker, I bought them for $29.00 including shipping. I figured they might come in handy one day and some of the individual parts would cost me more than I paid for the whole bunch. What do you think for $29.00?

Here's the photos that were in the ad for all the S&W 1917 revolver parts I got.....

Ad said sideplate was buffed and left in the white and is pitted. Well....yeah! Who in their right mind would buff one out and then not finish, cold blue or at least cover in oil unprotected metal? Oh well, I figure even though the logo would likely be buffed out to get the pits out, at least it could be used again. Neither of my two S&W 1917's have a S&W logo on the right sideplate like this one. Which 1917's had the right hand sideplate S&W logo?
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