Will a 12 Gauge Loaded with BB Shot Stop a Man Effectively??

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To answer the question: No, a 12 guage loaded with BB shot should not be thought of as being able to stop a man effectively. Yes, that is a pretty broad and encompassing statement; it is in answer to a similarly broad and encompassing question.

Buckshot, for good reason, is the prevalent choice for police, military, and self defense uses. When it isn't the favored option, slugs are substituted, again for good reason.
 
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Superhouse 15,
Not to nit-pick, but for clarity. You seem to be an advocate of sub-buckshot for self defense. And you stated: "I'm going to side with Clint Smith on this one."

You then referred to a Box of Truth review of a Clint Smith class. The text of which states:

"We were told to bring 400 rounds of birdshot, 150 rounds of #4 or 00 Buckshot, and 25 slugs."
and
"Clint doesn't recommend birdshot for defense, but it is a good and cheap load for practice."

Now, there's some confusion that might come out of that, as you can probably see.

Is there another article you could link to that could help us rectify what seems to be two positions, one that's an industry standard and one that's ... surprising, of Clint Smith's?

Thanks,
Erik
 
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And I've posted before I had a high school friend who got half his head blown off from bird shot, or enough of it he lived on life support for only 3 hours. Until I see something different in RL which contradicts that experience I'll keep to my own opinions before being swayed by folks on an internet forum, no matter how well intentioned they believe they are. Sorry, seen the results first hand.

You guys can go back to your debate now.
 
I agree that buck is the right thing. but in a pinch if all I had was bird shot I will darn sure use it:p will it take more than one? well that is the chance I will take if I dont have anything else.
 
I think the answer to using magnum BB loads is "range" or better yet "close range"

I would spend the money and buy some 00 buck but if for some reason all I had was magnum BB loads I would want to be at a range of 20 feet or less.

I patterned some 12 ga. 2 3/4 magnum BB out of a H&R single shot that had the barrel cut down to 18.25 inches at around 20 feet it made a nice 3 foot circle and that isn't good enougt to bet your life on.

Maybe you will get lucky and make a head shot that blinds a bad guy but like the old saying goes "there ain't no second place winners in a gun fight".

Spend a few bucks and buy some 00 buck.

As for slugs - I hope I don't live near anyone using those. They could go through a lot of walls.
 
Well gosh, I'd better be glad that my next door neighbor who was robbed & beaten at gunpoint didn't have anything to shoot back with either.
 
Deathrodent
At a range of 20 feet, the pattern should not and could not spread to 3 feet.
The pattern at that range would be well under 12 inches.
 
It was a long time ago but it couldn't have been much more than 20 feet - we didn't measure.

But the pattern was huge we didn't measure it either but it was wau over 12" - remember it was out of a 18.25 inch cut down barrel.

If I ever get the chance I'll test it again I still have some of those magnum BBs leftover.
 
I have shot a great many 18" cylinder bore shotguns and none patterned anywhere near that size. Most were between 3-4 inches at a measured 21 feet.
 
I have 2 mossberg 590's with 20" cylinder bore barrels. With cheap birdshot (#7) at a range of 25 YARDS they pattern is somewhere in the 18" diameter range. At 7 yards, it would be considerably smaller, I just haven't patterned them at that close of a range in a while. I would guestimate they would pattern about 6" diameter.
 
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It was a long time ago but it couldn't have been much more than 20 feet - we didn't measure.

But the pattern was huge we didn't measure it either but it was wau over 12" - remember it was out of a 18.25 inch cut down barrel.

If I ever get the chance I'll test it again I still have some of those magnum BBs leftover.
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If it was a do-it-youself cut down, there might have been some damage to the muzzle that could explain an extreme pattern like that. You can also get some pretty wicked patterns by loading 12ga with split-shot fishing sinkers instead of your average shot, and opening each one up 90 degrees, but thats a tedious process and not worth the effort. There are some specialty 12ga ammo available online that can do about the same thing.
 
Shotgun for Self Defense

Step 1) Buy a 10 gauge.

Step 2) Go ask local shop owner for 10 gauge slugs and laugh at reaction. ( You get some odd looks lol)

Step 3) Order 10 gauge slugs offline (unless step 2 was lucky.)

Step 4) Learn to lean forward properly to handle recoil if need ever be to use it.


From shooting a 10 gauge..... a 12 feels like the 20 gauge I used to squirrel hunt with when I was younger, 10's are a lot of fun as well.
 
The first shooting I went to as a LEO involved a domestic where one guy shot another with a 20 ga loaded with #6 low brass at a distance of about 15 ft. Hit the guy COM in the xyphoid. Made a hole about the size of a golf ball with ragged edges. Dropped him where he stood. Shot had completely penetrated his body cavity and we found shot against his spine.
I don't recommend birdshot for self defense but don't minimize the effect and devastation it can cause at normal room sizes. It's very deadly. The downside to using birdshot for defense is it loses it's velocity quickly. If you knew all your shots would be taken within 5 to 10 yds then normal hunting rds would be very effective. The problem with defensive shootings is you don't get to pick and choose your combat distances.
 
The problem with defensive shootings is you don't get to pick and choose your combat distances.
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Exactly.........

The other problem with birdshot is that for every anecdote of someone dropping instantly from being shot with it, there is another anecdote of someone continuing to fight and sometimes even kill the person wielding the shotgun.

There are too many variables in each of our lives for one size to fit all when it comes to shotgun ammo. The good thing is you have choices.

I don't live in an apartment, my home is not a split floorplan with bedrooms on both sides. If I am shooting toward an intruder, I am shooting away from my family. The intruder, if he is shooting toward me, is shooting toward my family who would be behind me. I want him stopped, NOW. 00 buck and slugs tend to do that faster. Are they a guarantee?? No. But they're the best bet for a quick stop.

You may live in an apartment. You may have valid overpenetration concerns given your situation. In that case, you may be better served with smaller shot. Just don't expect it to "act like a slug" or "be effective at accross the room distances". Sometimes it might, sometimes it won't, sometimes you may have to shoot farther than across your bedroom. Have a plan B.
 
Bird shot is for shooting cute little birdies not big scary bad guys. Save the BB for the Christmas goose and get some slugs or buck for SD.
 
My cousin was shot three times with 00 buck from less than 50 yds. He was badly hurt but recovered. Nothing is 100%.
 
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