Will a 12 Gauge Loaded with BB Shot Stop a Man Effectively??

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I always love the anecdotal links to other message boards whose brothers, nephews, 2nd cousin is a Law Enforcement Officer and how the buckshot won against the birdshot. Jeez people are gullible when it comes to fish stories.

You can tell your fishy stories all you want about the mean old perp who got laid out with buckshot and how the birdshot didn't do a thing.

Here's a photo of what .410 birdshot will do to a skull. Warning, images are graphic. From the FBI website, not some story about a cousins, brother in laws, stepson who is a LEO and saw a guy get shot point blank in the head with birdshot and went out drinking the next day.

You guys enjoy your delusions while you check out the gruesome photo.

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/lab/fsc/backissu/april2004/images/research2_10.jpg

MAN WOUNDED BY BIRDSHOT:

http://pro.corbis.com/images/AAKA002646.jpg?size=67&uid=%7B0B11AFB5-C16D-4C23-B539-5CCF5B56BAB9%7D
 
I always love the anecdotal links to other message boards whose brothers, nephews, 2nd cousin is a Law Enforcement Officer and how the buckshot won against the birdshot. Jeez people are gullible when it comes to fish stories.
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The links to message boards were when the original link to the article was no longer available; of course only two of those links were to a message board and both contained the text and source of the original article for anyone who wishes to investigate further.

Is your case is so weak that you felt a need to misstate what was contained in my link? For that matter, even if your case is so weak that you feel a need to misstate the content of those links, does it make much sense to do it when anybody here can click on the links and see for themselves?

Here's a photo of what .410 birdshot will do to a skull.
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I see a photo of a dead guy. I don't see any information identifying that as birdshot or a .410.

http://pro.corbis.com/images/AAKA002...CCF5B56BAB9}
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Again, I see a photo of a wounded man. No identification as to how the man was wounded or with what. In any case, he looks to be capable of pulling the trigger on a firearm if he had one, so I'm not sure how it supports your case.

Of course, there is lots of blood there; but that isn't unusual since birdshot often makes bloody, horrific looking wounds that aren't effective at stopping a threat. Here is a graphic example of a similarly dramatic looking wound caused by a Glaser/Magsafe type pistol round - except this also shows the x-rays demonstrating how deeply the light shot penetrated (despite being purposely compressed into a solid core in this case).
 
Yes Bartholemew because a bloodied up guy is really a threat after a birdshot hit from 20 feet away. You keep talking about "not effective at stopping." Oh it's effective. What you really want to say is birdshot doesn't kill.

Why can't you guys just admit that you want to see the perp dead? It's not a bad thing to be a murderer. I mean, we're all animals after all.

I can guarantee you that my 6 shot shotgun loaded with birdshot would be all I need to effectively STOP an attack. I am happy with that and don't care if I killed or not.

You on the other hand, want to make sure the perp is dead and that's what it boils down to. One shot, one kill is effectively saying you want to murder somebody. Otherwise you would be happy with 6 rounds of birdshot. I can guarantee you that the first time he gets hit and the second time racking, he's not going to go anywhere and will do exactly what you ask, but you're only interested in getting to "vital organs."

Nothing but a forum full of borderline psychopaths. It's no wonder that America considers NRA members and gun owners as "GUN NUTS" because you guys are obsessed with the kill and care about nothing else but opening up the guys chest with a 6 inch gaping hole.

Safety of your family my ass. You just want to kill somebody.
 
Anecdotal stories have nothing to do with it. I'm an student xray tech and I have patients with birdshot wounds come through about 1-2 times a month, some of them self-inflicted suicide attempts. It looks gross because of all the little pellets but usually it's only a surface wound. They walk into the ER most of the time and they walk out when we're done. Am I saying you can't get lucky and stop someone with birdshot? Absolutely not, it's still dangerous stuff to get shot with. But most of the time it doesn't have enough penetration to do any real damage.
 
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=332457

Tarwater, here's another ER guy who is saying the opposite of what you are saying. If your goal is to stop the attack, then birdshot is fine. If your goal is to kill, then go ahead and load with buckshot. It seems like you guys just want to kill, not stop.

Here is what he has to say:

I swear this is the last time I post on one of these birdshot vs buckshot threads, that horse is just about pulp by now. I don't get my info from any website or gun mag, I guess I'm just not that savy. I get my evidence from over 15 years working in Level 1 ERs. Anyone who says that birdshot used at home defense ranges is anything less than lethal is smoking crack.

Now granted, I've never seen what birdshot does to ballistics gel or wet phone books, only human tissue, so maybe my evidence won't hold up on the internet. Not everyone I've seen hit with birdshot at close range has come in flatlined, but none has pressed on an attack. I've also seen more than a couple of people bring themselves in or picked up off site who were hit with one or 2 buckshot, probably by someone who just pointed and pulled.

Now me, I like 000 buck, but the wife can't tolerate the recoil. She's perfectly fine with a good load of #4 bird. The distance from her side of the bed to the bedroom door is 13 feet. We've mapped these things out, we have a plan. And a plan trumps internet gibberish anyday of the week.
Or maybe I just woke up in a bad mood.
 
Why bother with BB's? If you are not prepared to kill the intruder, you shouldn't be using a shotgun to begin with - a taser will do.

My 870 Tactical is loaded with Centurion Multi-defense buckshot shells - a true "manstopper" - loaded with a single .650 size pellet along with six (6) #1 buckshot pellets, for a solid hit. Muzzle Velocity: 1,300.
125051i_ts.jpg
 
Look, I have no problem with you guys using buckshot. Just admit that your goal is to KILL the intruder, not stop the attack. You admit that and I'm okay with your use of buckshot. Just admit you want to murder the guy and the argument is over.

I get tired of buckshot advocates talking about "lack of penetration" to vital organs and such. What you're really saying is that you want to blow the ever-living crap out of anybody in front of you. I mean, what other reason is there to load magnum sized buckshot loads?

You want to kill the guy in front of you. There is no other reason. Just remember this fellas. When you do eventually kill that guy in front of you, it's not going to be that glorious moment your'e imagining in your head. You're not going to have one foot on the attacker while your wife grabs your elbow.

No. Killing somebody is going to be a traumatic experience. And when you see some 15 year old kid laying dead in your living room with no weapon...believe me, you're not going to be on your high horse. Especially if the neighbor kid was some kid you knew your whole life and was just a petty thief looking to score some DVDs from you. You're going to know what it feels like to kill a man - any man and you're going to have flashbacks about it for the rest of your life.

You little armchair Rambos have no idea what you're setting yourself up for. All the stories you read on the internet of some little girl in Montana shooting 2 perps in her home...they are bullcrap and don't take into acct the insanity you bring upon your person when your intention is to kill.
 
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Good luck CJW, I can't wait until you get to fulfill your Rambo fantasy of killing an intruder. I hope your family is okay that their papa is a homicidal sociopath deep down inside.
 
Don't mean to disrespect you dude, but maybe you should try some of that rubber buckshot stuff; it would probably suit your needs pretty well.
 
Though his attitude leaves a little something to be desired, Liquidspaceman is basically correct about birdshot. I assume most people have not done much shotgun shooting. Sounds like you guys think birdshot is like shooting paintballs. IT'S DEADLY. Believe it. It's probably not deadly at 25 yards, but at under 5 yards birdshot will blow one big hole in whatever it hits. Buckshot penetrates better, and has longer range.
 
Yeah and maybe you should switch from magnum loads to M67 Fragmentation Grenades Tarwater. Why leave the perp any chance of walking out alive? What if there's more than one perp? Then you can really blow the **** out of them Rambo.
 
I don't actually own a shotgun, I keep a humble 9mm for my Rambo fantasies. Thanks for the advice though, I think I'll have a look at those frag grenades next time I'm at the sporting goods store.
 
Sorry for my attitude Bill, it just bothers me that there are people that actually have these fantasies of killing their intruders. A gun was created for self-defense and to stop these attacks. They weren't created so that people could blow the ever living crap out of things.

But that's the attitude people have. If somebody breaks into their home, they're not walking away alive. It's really disturbing. These guys with buckshots in their apartments with me living right next door. They're going to punch threw the wall and hit my 4 year old daughter with their Rambo tactics.

I don't think half these guys realize they are sociopaths to begin with. They talk about penetration to vital organs and all it reminds me of is serial killers who talk about their favorite way to kill their victims. This is a forum of guys who have seen Death Wish and Dirty Harry one too many times.
 
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