Why would you use rubber buckshot for home defense?

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while i agree with most of the posts against using less than lethal ammo, i think we need to consider something my daddy taught me:
if you feel the need to fire a gun at another human being, then shoot to kill. if you are not willing, and justified to kill the person, don't draw your weapon.
i've only fired a gun in anger while deployed in the military. i did not shoot to disable, and they weren't rubber or bean bag rounds.
just my 2c
 
Ralph Allen said:
The proper loads for self defense INSIDE of your home is # 6 to 7 1/2 standard high base, ie, Dove/pheasant loads that you bought from your local sporting goods store.
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I disagree. However, that subject has already been discussed in the following threads:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=443798
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=395188
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=433709
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=424647
 
Years ago I had a local sheriff's deputy tell me that if someone breaks into your home while you are there they aren't a burglar. They are there to do you harm. He said that if you don't stop him he will harm you & your family. Shoot to kill or be killed was his advice. He also said even if the law allows you to shoot him before he enters your house it is in your best interest to have his body found inside your home. Some people have a problem with a person being shot outside the home so don't take the chance. Drag them to the door threshold and be sure a part of him is over it. I have never had the chance to put that into service (thank goodness) but I have always remembered it. Plus a dead perp can't sue you for maming him.

Then there is the story of the man who awoke to a figure in the hallway. He reached over to see if his soon-to-be wife was beside him & felt what he thought was her body. He then grabbed his shotgun and blew the figure away. It turned out to be his girlfriend. What he felt when he reached over the bed was the blanket bunched up by the girlfriend when she got out of bed. I guess rubber pellets could have only mamed her instead of killing her...maybe. Hummm, a ****** off (wow, can't even say that?) mamed girlfriend might not be such a great thing either. Rubber buckshot doesn't fix stupid I guess.

If you own a firearm you better be prepared to use it, but always know what you are shooting at before you pull the trigger. If you have to guess what your target is, then it shouldn't be your target. What ever happens you will have to live with it the rest of your life. (if you freeze at that moment your life might not be very long anyway).
 
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Some people have a problem with a person being shot outside the home so don't take the chance. Drag them to the door threshold and be sure a part of him is over it.
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In addition to being a crime in most states, attempting to alter evidence or obstruct an investigation is a really bad idea because when forensic investigators figure out that you lied about one thing, they are going to assume that you lied about other things as well.

Instead of trying to alter the crime scene, a better strategy is to know what the law regarding self-defense is in your state and follow it.
 
Bird shot is a great load.

For birds.

Sometimes it even kills them.

As Doc said, if I pick up a gun, it is because there is a lawful deadly force threat. I don't want a load that sometimes kills birds.

I sure as heck don't want a load that isn't even supposed to kill. :eek:
 
Some people have a problem with a person being shot outside so don't take the chance. Drag him to the door threshold and be sure a part of him is over it.
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Your not serious???

Thats just about the worse advice I think I've ever read on TFL. :barf:

I'd like to strongly suggest to you that you do some legal research before you ever have to defend yourself with a firearm(God-forbid).
 
I have heard that advice before! It was wrong then, and still is.

If some one is outside your house, and you engage them with bullets, it is a gun fight, not normally condoned by the boys and girls in Blue (or Tan!)

But if they have entered your dwelling, a place you are legally entitled to be, you had better shoot to kill!

You have no other reason to resort to firearms, unless you are defending your life, or the lives of other innocent party's.

Florida has no problem with you shooting to kill, if they are in your home, at night.

When you are sleeping, awake to the sound of some one (or more than one breaking in) I awake instantly, always have done, pistol, sure fire light, wait for stairs to bring targets, The Castle Doctrine is for the riotous.

911 is to alert the local Law enforcement of your situation, they can not get to your home in time, even if they were 1 mile away.

I had one small glass of red wine, at 6 PM, 6 hrs ago, that is the extent of my normal drinking, don't expect to deal with lethal threats, after ten pints.

No more preaching. You should be in bed already if you are going to Swamp Rats class!!
 
I was recently having this discussion with my wife. (she is NOT happy about a gun in the house, period and so she suggested the LTL rounds because she'd rather not have a "murderer" for a husband) Now with that said I DID give it consideration to purchase some rubber slugs / 00 buck and keep them in the tube JIC. After reading more about them and concluding that the longest stretch of my home (in a straight line of sight) is about 50 to 60ft depending on which bedroom or door your at. Knowing that this would still keep the effect of possible death with LTL i figured why waste money and choose just basic target load instead... Although still lethal and can kill, it's SLIGHTLY less likely than 00 buck at that range... and a "sandblasted" chest does NOT make you wanna stick around to find out whats coming next. I hope to NEVER have to employ my shotgun for anything more than target shooting and maybe hunting (if I don't wanna use the bow), BUT i am fully prepared if the need arises. Following the 1 target load is the Winchester PDX rounds. :)
 
"Some people have a problem with a person being shot outside the home so don't take the chance. Drag them to the door threshold and be sure a part of him is over it."

Chances are that the cops will figure out that you moved the dead guy. Do that and you just gave the prosecutor evidence of having a guilty state of mind; that you knew you shouldn't have shot the bg else you wouldn't have dragged him over the threshold.
 
Like I have said before, using deadly force is THE MOST IMPORTANT DECISION YOU WILL EVER MAKE at least on earth anyway.

ANYONE who doesn't understand that, or realize how important that is,shouldn't be allowed around items that can inflict that force!

Macho has it's place, but it is far from consideration when you make a decision on whether you can shoot someone or not!
 
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Putting a less-than-lethal round into the shotgun could help you out in the event of legal proceedings following an incident.

Even if you have it in the tube, just to shuck it out, you could use that as a defense that while you never even shot it. You had the state of mind to consider the option of not ending someone's life from the point of making the decision to keep a gun in your home.

Then again as others have mentioned these situations have the potential to be highly dynamic and when seconds count racking the action a second time is racking the action a second time. Your call, I keep mine loaded to the hilt with the real deal.
 
ripnbst, Depending on your state's laws, using a less than lethal can backfire in the courtroom, where the jury is instructed that you are only justified in using deadly force if you used no more force than was reasonably necessary to defend against the danger. See California Crim Instruction 506 here http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/jury/criminaljuryinstructions/calcrim_juryins.pdf

Consider if you have the option of firing a bean bag round but you stop the intruder with 00 buck. You might end up having to convince a jury why the bean bag was not all that was reasonably necessary, but if you didn't have any no one would question the use of buck.
 
A beanbag round is not "less-than-lethal." It's "less lethal."
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Right you are...should be labeled "less likely to be lethal."

Murphy's gonna getcha coming and going on this one. Let the hammer down on one of those things and one of two things will happen: either (1) the attacker really was trying to kill you and isn't slowed down at all by your LL load and proceeds to accomplish his goal unimpeded, or (2) it didn't turn out to be a good deadly force shoot and you will fork over everything you own or ever will own the the perp and you'll get an extended chance to think about how much fun he's having with your property while you cool your jets in the state pen. :(
 
I fired some once at a rubber buck. Just bounced off.:confused:

Not for me, thanks. I'll stick to good ol lead #4 buck. Barring that, 00
 
While I don't use rubber ammo of any kind nor do I plan to (I prefer #4 Buck in my HD shotgun), I think maybe I can play devil's advocate on this one. I can see three possible reasons that someone might consider rubber buckshot.

1. The person has an extremely difficult time grappling with the thought of taking a human life regardless of the circumstances. Said person loads the first shell in their shotgun with rubber buckshot in order to give an attacker every possible chance to give up before resorting to more lethal means of defense (such a person is likely to get a rude awakening if he or she has to find out just how lethal rubber buckshot can be).

2. I suppose it might be argued in a courtroom that if you shot an attacker with rubber buckshot and then had to progress to more lethal ammunition in order to end the attack that you exhausted every possible option before resorting to lethal force (yes, I know this is probably a somewhat weak defense but I am trying to play devil's advocate)

3. (This is the most legitimate use for rubber buckshot that I can think of) You live in a rural area and your HD shotgun serves double duty for chasing pesky critters like skunks, opossums, raccoon, coyotes, and stray dogs out of your yard. You don't want to have to kill these animals if you don't have to so you keep your shotgun loaded with a shell of rubber buckshot for use at fairly long distance to chase the critters away and the rest of the magazine with regular shells in case you're accosted by a two-legged animal (I suppose this might work, but a cheap BB gun or airsoft gun by the back door would seem to be a better solution).

Honestly, the problem I have with rubber buckshot is the same problem that I have with most other "non-lethal" self-defense tools and that is the fact that they can very easily be very lethal particularly in untrained hands. As was mentioned already, rubber buckshot was designed for a very specific purpose for LE and requires pretty intensive training to work as designed. Joe Sixpack or Suzy Homemaker isn't all that likely to have been trained in the proper use of such ammo and thus is fairly likely to unintentionally kill the goblin crawling through the window.
 
Short answer: use a "less lethal" round and you will kill or maim the SOB. You will be charged with manslaughter and you will go to jail.

Firearms are not tools of modulating force. Col. Rex Applegate
 
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