Why would you use rubber buckshot for home defense?

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I wouldn't consider it!

I took a defensive shooting class when I turned 21 and got my permit to carry. I learned that defending your LIFE is the only time you can shoot someone or even pull your gun. I was told to double tap in the chest only!!! He said if you take a less lethal shot the scum lawyer will say you didn't think your life was all that threatened if you only shot him in the leg.... Now with a shotgun you will not need a double tap but I would give an attacker one 3" mag of 00 lead shot right in the pump! Again if I used rubber bullets and it didn't kill him the lawyer could mount a defense that you used less lethal means so therefore you must have thought the threat wasn't life or death. I know this sounds sooooooo stupid but so did the case of the woman that spilled hot coffee on her privates and got millions of dollars from McDonald a few years back. Besides if your life is threatened why would you want anything less lethal anyway? the class and the lawyers are right now that I think of it. If I shot in the leg or something I must not have been all that scared right?
 
The only reason that justifies discharging a firearm at someone, regardless of what it's loaded with, is if your life is in danger.

If that's the case, you want to be able to respond with lethal force. Right now and in large doses. Not on your next shot.
 
Rubber? Nope

Anybody stupid or crazy enough to break into someone's home needs to be put down for good----no telling what they would do to you and your family.
 
Idiot messing around with shotgun. Bean bag round accidentally discharged in the local PD office. Bag went through the wall and landed on the LT's desk. Thank goodness it was late at night and no one was there.
 
Only reason I can think of for using rubber buck or slugs would be for rousting a problem bear away from the house and away from the barn.
 
How about a scenario where you don't fire the first shot? It seems to me that there are lots of scenarios where the first-shot being less-lethal has the potential to be a liability.
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If I am being fired upon, then I imagine the bean-bag round would still have some effect on the fight (causing the assailant to take cover, stunning him for a moment, etc.) If my first shot does not stop the threat, the second one will. The way my home is laid out, there are two places a shoot out is likely to occur. From the bottom of my stairs I am able to peer into the ENTIRE first floor while keeping excellent cover. From the top of my stairs I can peer down the stairwell and still maintain excellent cover. That stairwell is also a choke point, so if the BG is downstairs, and intent on coming up stairs, he will have to go through me first. My philosophy about loading the LTL round has a lot to do with control and understanding over my environment. Should I awake to find an intruder at the TOP of my stairs, I'm not reaching for the shotgun... it'll be the .45. In the future when I change residences, I may skip the LTL option depending on the environment and layout.

On another point, what kind of training do you have with these rounds? You note your girlfriend is backing you up... how will your girlfriend know what load you've fired and whether she should be shooting back or not?
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She knows full well the first shot is a LTL round. She knows she will NEVER go downstairs to "investigate"... that's my duty. She knows I will announce myself if I return up the stairs. She has a tac light and good cover in our bedroom. If a single shot is fired, she will assume the worst, she will announce her presence and that she is also armed, and she will fire upon any unannounced individual that enters the room after ID'ing them with the light. She's a good shot too, so God help them...

If someone invaded my home, I can not tell you exactly what would happen, I may use deadly force, or, I may not, it all depends on that moment in time and the circumstances involved.
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Exactly. I happen to know via the crime statistics for my neighborhood that B&E is far more likely (statistically) than a home invasion type assault, especially with the number of teenage kids near me. Not that someone won't come in shooting, I just don't think it's nearly as likely for me and where I live. So, my plan accommodates that statistically more likely scenario, and (I think anyway) the lethal option as well. If you're in my home and aren't supposed to be, I have the right to take your life (in NC anyway), but that doesn't mean that has to be my only viable option.

Again if I used rubber bullets and it didn't kill him the lawyer could mount a defense that you used less lethal means so therefore you must have thought the threat wasn't life or death.
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Does anyone know if this has happened in a court of law? That might dissuade me from the LTL option if it had...
 
If someone is trying to kill me in my home, I bet he isnt using rubber anything. So to be fair, niether will I :)

Would be a good thing for any dog decided to crap in my yard....
 
[Then the creep's wife can sue you for killing the bread winner of her family.
/QUOTE]

We surely wouldn't want that. So LTL it is, oh wait, sometimes they die from LTL...hmm what to do? Sell all the guns? Buy pepper spray? Dogs would be out, the Wife would still sue...:rolleyes:

Somebody better get that perp the memo that the price of everything went up at my house, so her thrifty husband best shop somewhere else. :D
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For when Gumby busts through your front door?
Rubber buckshot for the lopsided green freak. Bean bag rounds for that scrawny, underfed horse sidekick.
 
" Why would you use rubber buckshot for home defense? "

I wouldn't. Home defense implies the use of deadly force.
00 buck provides that force and is readily available.
 
You can ONLY lose using "less lethal" loads. Ask the Boston PD...anyway...

Lately, I've read several posts where TFL members have mentioned loading several rounds of less-lethal rubber buckshot as the first rounds in their shotgun in order to defend their home against intruders.
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Yes, these people either fundamentally misunderstand the legal requirements for use of deadly force defense, or they misunderstand the real world, practical facts of defense against deadly force threats, or both. They are wrong - dead wrong.

And, for anyone thinking about firing "less lethal" loads against a non-deadly force threat, well, let's just hope they signed up for the "legal insurance" employee benefit program at work.
 
When I taught, 1980 to 2003, I leased an indoor range. Ontario Canada, one of my Buddy's wanted to test this NEW? 12 gage round.

Range, concrete bunker, 30 yd by 6 yd wide.

OK said I. Those rubber balls flew for ever! Did he get whacked.
 
5Whisky is the only one to mention using Birdshot, although he only says first round is such. Discharging a shotgun, loaded with buckshot inside of a house will probably cause colateral damage to a loved one inside the dwelling. I don't care what kind of outer walls you have, your interior walls WILL NOT stop buckshot from penetrating and continuing on in lethal velocity! The proper loads for self defense INSIDE of your home is # 6 to 7 1/2 standard high base, ie, Dove/pheasant loads that you bought from your local sporting goods store. I personally have seen the aftermath of close range lethal shotgun blasts using bird shot inside of a dwelling. You will be hiring a professional to clean the area if this situation ever happens to you. Very graphic, and also very deceased!
Ralph
 
The proper load for defense INSIDE your home is #6 or 7 1/2 standard high base...
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IMO, that is quit a generalized statement that would be hard if not impossible to prove. :confused:

Soooo.... I'll let you do that. References please???
 
Birdshot will penetrate drywall quite nicely...

... until the pattern gets a chance to spread out some. Do some searches for penetration, you should find a couple of interesting graphics on just how much drywall birdshot can go through while the pattern is still tight.
 
If someone breaks into my house with the intent to harm me or my wife I don't want to scare him I want to Stop him. There are people who have been shot with real bullets and didn't stop I will not be trying a rubber pellet/ bullet/beanbag to find out this was one of them.
 
I live in Maryland, We have some of the worst home defense laws about guns, I load Bird shot first then 00 buck. I got a 5 year old little girl and a Young Wife. If the BG makes it through the Bull Mastiff they mean Business.Ill do the Time if it comes down to it, But i have considered LTL Rounds. But id just get sued. :eek:
 
The bottom line for me is that I am a civilian, not a law enforcement officer.

In my state, the only situation in which I am authorized to use deadly force is in the gravest extreme - to prevent my own imminent death or that of a third party.

In a home invasion scenario I'm willing to assume that the intruder is armed and intends harm. I don't have to wait until the intruder shoots me to shoot at him. But it remains my responsibility to be sure of my target and to be able to later describe why I fired at the invader.

Therefore I'm unwilling to use non-lethal force in a home invasion self-defense scenario. If it is not a self-defense situation where I honestly feel my life (or that of another) is in imminent danger, then I have no business shooting the intruder with anything at all.

From my perspective, non-lethal rounds in a home defense situation have no utility. I'm not certain whether, in my state at least, their use would be defensible in court. If a civilian is not in a situation where they are defending life against imminent death, with a lethal round, then they are not justified in shooting anyone with a non-lethal round.

Just MHO.

YMMV.
 
Warning: anecdotal and possibly not germane to the discussion....

Whenever anyone brings up the "less lethal" ammo, I am reminded of a story told to me by my Grandfather. Back in the 40s, a neighbor asked him to load some 12ga shells with split peas. Seems the neighbor had a dog that was bothering the chickens, and while otherwise a good dog, needed a lesson, not killing. Grandfather suggested rock salt, but neighbor was insistant, split peas. So, that's what Grandpa loaded for him.

Grandpa always laughed when he told the rest of the story. "those split peas killed that dog dead as a stone!"

Rubber ammo was developed for crowd control, intended to be fired into the pavement in front of the crowd, and ricochet into the legs, causing painful, but not fatal wounds. Cops learned in short order that firing directly at people could, and did end lives. Just not as reliably as regular ammo.

Rubber buckshot for personal defense? NO! Not for me, or anyone I care about. The point of defensive shooting is to stop the attack. Not to kill. If they die as a result of being stopped, so be it. I have little faith that rubber ammo will be as reliable a stopper as conventional ammo.

If you use rubber ammo because you think it won't kill, and it will be just as effective, you're betting on the wrong horse.
 
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