Why no NRA?

I think that one has to look at the issue very closely. I am not convinced that the NRA has my 2nd amend rights at the heart of their agenda. That is what they are selling but I am not buying it.

The NRA uses your money to lobby for its own existence under the guise of yours and my 2nd amendment rights. That is my point. I believe that they are giving you nothing but a false sense of security.

As I said they need the Brady crowd as much as the Brady crowd needs them. They keep the issue divisive to keep the money flowing in.
 
I guess I have to ask, just who are these folks within the organization that are so self-serving and only maintain the NRA to promote their own survival?

What are their names and positions within the organization?

Which division of the NRA is it? The NRA-ILA? The Wittington Center? The NRA Foundation?

Is it the two NRA fellows at our local range who are teaching young kids to handle firearms safely just before hunting season?

Is it the NRA man and woman team at our local range who are teaching firearm skills to folks who are looking at buying a firearm for home defense?

Is it the guy who comes to our local gun shows passing out bumper stickers that have pro-gun candidate names on them?

Is it our local NRA representatives who are telling anyone that will listen about the voting records of our politicians. Are they the one's who are interested only in themselves?

My friend, you are referring to the NRA like it is an evil thing.

It is not.

Look at the NRA like a mass of swarming bees.

I'm one of those bees. So is my neighbor. So is PAX.

It's a mass of bees working towards keeping the 2nd Amendment alive.

It's ok for you to not like the Queen Bee, but the hive must go on.

Join us. The NRA needs your support.
 
Thank you for sharing your experience. I appreciate that. Are the things that you mentioned are they being funded by the NRA or are they simply individuals doing the right thing in the name of the NRA?

In my community I see nothing from them. I am an active shooter and see almost no NRA presence. Yes there are certifed NRA instructors teaching classes but they paid for that certification. They took a class which they paid for.

http://www.nrahq.org/education/training/instructor.asp

I do not equate that with the NRA as national body. I equate this and all the actions you listed as individuals doing the right thing.
 
rellascout

"I think that one has to look at the issue very closely. I am not convinced that the NRA has my 2nd amend rights at the heart of their agenda. That is what they are selling but I am not buying it.

The NRA uses your money to lobby for its own existence under the guise of yours and my 2nd amendment rights."
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Thank you for sharing your experience. I appreciate that. Are the things that you mentioned are they being funded by the NRA or are they simply individuals doing the right thing in the name of the NRA?

In my community I see nothing from them. I am an active shooter and see almost no NRA presence.
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The NRA cannot fight each and every battle. They do not have limitless funds to do so. They fight the ones that they think they have a chance to win.

Here in my state of Washington they recently fought, and won. Their adversaries were none other than Bill Gates and Paul Allen. You know who they are, right?

The paltry dues that we pay cannot possibly fund all the legal battles which the NRA fights. They need funding over and above those dues. Every time I can afford to, I send $$$ to the NRA-ILA. Every gun owner in this country should do the same. If you disagree, that is your right. However, you really need to do your homework and research how involved the NRA is, not just in your state, but nationwide.

You think gun control is a problem? Ammunition control isn't far off!!! And most of the gun-grabbers are very aware that the 2nd Amendment says nothing about ammunition.

We need the power of the NRA, now more than ever before.
 
You think gun control is a problem? Ammunition control isn't far off!!! And most of the gun-grabbers are very aware that the 2nd Amendment says nothing about ammunition.

We need the power of the NRA, now more than ever before.
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That is exactly what I am talking about. That is the mentality that the NRA propagates. Keep the discussion on the extremes. Always argue the slippery slope and keep gun owner paranoid that their guns will be taken away soon.

That is machine that we have created and continue to fund. Polarization of the issue. This does not help us. It does not help our cause it only serves to make us more marginalized instead of more mainstream.

Again I support your right to join the NRA and support the work that they do. I also hope that you would respect my right not to. Simply because I own a gun and am pro-gun and pro 2nd Amed does not mean I have to join the NRA or agree with their tactics or politics. People need to decide for themselves. To claim otherwise treats gun owners like sheeple.
 
rellascout

"That is exactly what I am talking about. That is the mentality that the NRA propagates."
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I'm not sure why you're blaming the NRA for this; they have nothing to do with it. I made the statement.

Read this:

http://www.saf.org/LawReviews/Healey1.htm

"Simply because I own a gun and am pro-gun and pro 2nd Amed does not mean I have to join the NRA or agree with their tactics or politics."
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Senators Schumer, Feinstein, Kennedy and others are counting on it.
 
rellascout

Quote:
"That is exactly what I am talking about. That is the mentality that the NRA propagates."
I'm not sure why you're blaming the NRA for this; they have nothing to do with it. I made the statement.

Read this:

http://www.saf.org/LawReviews/Healey1.htm

Quote:
"Simply because I own a gun and am pro-gun and pro 2nd Amed does not mean I have to join the NRA or agree with their tactics or politics."
Senators Schumer, Feinstein, Kennedy and others are counting on it.
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Again you are missing the point I am trying to make. You acting as a vehicle that pushes the gun issue to the extremes. Every reason you have given me to join the NRA is a veiled threat that if I do not I will loose my rights very soon. Don't you see how weak an argument that is. It convinces no one. It changes no ones position. It only polarizes the issue. This is how the NRA works on a lobbying and political level.

Rellascout
 
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Extremes?

Did you read that link I posted ?

"You acting as a vehicle that pushes the gun issue to the extremes."
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The "gun issues" are constantly being pushed to the extremes by folks other than myself. Have you been paying attention to the new gun laws being enacted in California? Do you have a problem with your state enacting the same laws?
 
I certainly do not agree with the laws being enacted in CA. I am not in favor the laws on the books in Washington, DC.

Simply because I am not a member of the NRA does not mean I am not informed and active when it comes to my rights.

You are correct that others are pushing the gun issue to the extremes but you seem to be right there with them. You are referencing a 9 year old document that is nothing more then an academic exercise demonstrating a possible arguement. It is not something that we should excuse the pun "get all up in arms about."

I am trying to be respectful here. Again I understand where you are comming from and respect your choice. Why can't you respect mine?
 
rellascout

"I certainly do not agree with the laws being enacted in CA. I am not in favor the laws on the books in Washington, DC."
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Who do you expect to fight against those types of laws in your state? Simple question.

"You are correct that others are pushing the gun issue to the extremes but you seem to be right there with them."
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I am doing nothing of the sort. I was born and raised in California. My father still lives there. He has been a collector of guns for all of his adult life, and now cannot legally give those guns to me, without mountains of paperwork and considerable cost. Some of those guns he cannot give to my brother, PERIOD, who still resides in that state. I will do everything in my power to ensure that those Draconian laws are not passed in my state. My ONLY ally in that fight appears to be the NRA.

There is a fight going on in this state (WA) over gun shows. Those against gun shows are fighting to have them outlawed by our state government. I am willing to contribute money to the NRA, or anyone else, to fight that battle.

I am being respectful of your views. My opinion is that you are wong. We are each entitled to our opinions.
 
In my State VCDL http://www.vcdl.org/

And individuals who care about the rights of individuals.

As far as the second part of your statement when you frame the dicussion with statements like:

You think gun control is a problem? Ammunition control isn't far off!!! And most of the gun-grabbers are very aware that the 2nd Amendment says nothing about ammunition.
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Senators Schumer, Feinstein, Kennedy and others are counting on it.
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You are feeding the extremes of the dicussion.
 
rellascout

"Are the things that you mentioned are they being funded by the NRA or are they simply individuals doing the right thing in the name of the NRA? In my community I see nothing from them. I am an active shooter and see almost no NRA presence"
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You mean THIS NRA ??

"Attention Virginia NRA Members! Please Contact the Senate Education and Health Committee!

Wednesday, February 22, 2006

Dear Virginia NRA Member:

On Thursday, February 23, the Virginia Senate Education and Health Committee is expected to consider HB1531, sponsored by Delegate Ward Armstrong (D-10). HB1531 would prohibit medical professionals from asking patients questions concerning firearm ownership. This measure has already cleared the Virginia House with a bi-partisan vote of 88-11 and if passed by the Senate, it will protect you from intrusive, unnecessary questions from medical professionals.

Please contact the members of the Senate Education and Health Committee and strongly encourage them to vote in favor of HB1531. Please call (800) 889-0229, or if you are in Richmond call (804) 698-7450."
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Or THIS NRA?

"VIRGINIA 7TH CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT NRA-ILA-EVC
To ensure that America's gun owners are always actively involved in the battle to protect freedom, NRA-ILA's Election Volunteer Coordinators (EVCs) stand ready to answer the call. In the electoral arena, EVCs act as the liaison between pro-gun candidates and NRA members and gun owners in their districts, working to spearhead ILA's volunteer activities to ensure that pro-freedom candidates have sufficient volunteers for campaign-related activities."
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Or THIS NRA?

"Virginia Shooting Sports Association
Welcome to the Virginia Shooting Sports Association
The Virginia Shooting Sports Association (VSSA) was originally founded as the Virginia State Rifle and Revolver Association in 1938. VSSA is the official state association of the National Rifle Association."
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"You are feeding the extremes of the dicussion."
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The gun control laws being passed everywhere in this nation are extreme. That calls for extreme measures. Sorry you don't think so.
 
Here's an experiment:

Do you agree that Senator Dianne Feinstein is strongly anti-gun? If so, and I don't see how anyone could conclude otherwise, would you also agree that, as regards the right to keep and bear arms, effective pro-gun lobbyists are her enemies? This stands to reason, since if they were not effective, she would not worry about them as political enemies.

Go to her web site: http://feinstein.senate.gov/index.html

Using the search feature of that site, look for "NRA", "VCDL", and "Virginia Citizens Defense League". You will get 54 hits on "NRA", and none on the others. If you look, you'll find that you also get no hits on "GOA", "Gun Owners of America" (as an organization), "JFPO", or "Jews For the Protection of Firearms Ownership". I agree with the philosophy of all these organizations, so don't think I am attacking any of them. I only want to point out that the NRA is the only pro-gun group on Dianne Feinstein's radar screen.

The fact is that if you want to fight Dianne Feinstein and her ilk, you need to join the NRA.

Tim
 
I guess I tend to trust the voices telling gun owners what the threats are and how to counter them, more than I trust the voices trying to lull us back to sleep because it can't possibly happen here. As the people of California have found out to their sorrow, firearms confiscations most certainly can happen in America, and do happen whenever gun owners get lulled to sleep by folks telling them not to worry.

pax
 
Do you agree that Senator Dianne Feinstein is strongly anti-gun? If so, and I don't see how anyone could conclude otherwise, would you also agree that, as regards the right to keep and bear arms, effective pro-gun lobbyists are her enemies? This stands to reason, since if they were not effective, she would not worry about them as political enemies.
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Yes I agree that Feinstein is strongly Anti-gun. What I disagree with is that effective pro-gun lobbyists are her enemies. In fact my belief is that they are her greatest political allies. She has made a huge name for her self on the gun control platform. Every time she goes out and speaks about gun control the money pours in. She speaks out against the NRA because they have the biggest name recognition. Just mention the NRA in some camps and it motivates them to write checks to her. Who would she have to rail against if the NRA were gone? What issue would she hang her hat on?

The exact same thing is true of the NRA. Mention Feinstein's name at your local shooting range or on a gun board. Everyone wants to line up to cut her off at the knees. The NRA targets her and users her anti-gun platform for rally this set of troops to do what? Write checks to the NRA.

This is what your lobbying efforts get you. A vicious cycle that is never ending because the success of both depends on the existence of the other. The NRA makes her and she make the NRA. Its not really a fight it is more of a dance. IMHO
 
rellascout

That noise you hear is me shaking my head, in disbelief............

I say this with all due respect, YOU JUST DON'T GET IT.
 
"That noise you hear is me shaking my head, in disbelief............"

And by the way, please don't trip over my jaw. It's on the floor.

Tim
 
I guess I tend to trust the voices telling gun owners what the threats are and how to counter them, more than I trust the voices trying to lull us back to sleep because it can't possibly happen here. As the people of California have found out to their sorrow, firearms confiscations most certainly can happen in America, and do happen whenever gun owners get lulled to sleep by folks telling them not to worry.

pax
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I do not remember saying not to worry. If I did please show that to me. What I have said is that the dicusssion and the debate does not need to be framed in the manner it too often occurs. The debate happens on the extremes. It happens too often using nothing more than the slipperly slope arguement that if this happens next thing we know all the guns are gone.

These type of arguement persuade no one. The don't move people from the middle to our side they force people to choose an extreme. The message is you are with us or your against us. This mentality has clearly been brought out in this thread in a matter of hours. It took very few posts to drive a wedge between me and some of my other pro-gunners simply because I do not give money to the NRA.

How does that look to the middle? How does that look to the person on the fence? How does it look to average gu who owns a shotgun for home protection? The fact that we can only talk in a "your either with us or against us way" only undermines our cause. Believe it or not it pushes us to the extremes where is will be easier for the middle to marginalize us. We are doing it to ourselves as much as they are doing it to us. Take a step back and think about it for a second. Please.

In the end I respect your right to support the NRA. It is your $$$ and it is your right but please do not force it on everyone who owns a gun. You may end up loosing more than you will gain.
 
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