Your math is terrible.
A 125 grain bullet at 1100 fps = 336 ft lbs of muzzle energy.
I also agree with others - wise crack comments damage your reputation and soon no one will believe anything you say.
Why isn't the .380 considered a viable self defense round by many, but the .38 special is?
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Your math is terrible.
A 125 grain bullet at 1100 fps = 336 ft lbs of muzzle energy.
I also agree with others - wise crack comments damage your reputation and soon no one will believe anything you say.
BBI uses a Thompson/Center Encore for their work. Barrel length is measured from the breech to the muzzle. so a 2" T/C barrel has less than one inch of rifling past the end of the cartridge in a 38/357 barrel. That's why their 2" speed are way off.
A full powered 125 grain 357 magnum runs around 1,250 fps from a 2" revolver.
To clarify I wasn’t using the BBTI number to say a 357 magnum out of a 2” barrel wasn’t capable of moving faster than 1050 FPS. My point was if a projective moving only 50 FPS slower (his quoted muzzle velocity was 1100 FPS) wasn’t capable of breaking even 400 lb. ft. of muzzle energy, I was doubtful a projectile moving at the quoted velocity was capable of breaking 500 ft. lb. I then realized it was just easier to give the calculation directly, which is why I added the link to the calculator in the second part of that post.
That is good information to have about the velocity figures from BBTI, however. I’ll remember that for the future, thank you.
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Mulebuk Mojo
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________ ? I must have miss something here.
OP asked a simple valid question and it turned into just another forum caliber war. Here's the rub, all handgun calibers are marginal.
It's more emotional attachment than anything, as mention here pick what you feel you can shoot best and like carrying and rock on as they say.
And if you like statistics you will discover the lowly .22LR has done more harm then any of them.
HighValleyRanch
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It looks like the moderators have thankfully erased his wisecracks.
Now things can be discussed as adults.
Now things can be discussed as adults.
101combatvet
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The last time I checked, both rounds will kill you deader than a doornail. Even a .22 LR can take out a 400 pound trouble maker if it hits his heart. Shot placement is what matters.
In short, 380 has been on the edge for some in the past imho due to poor bullet design. With a good bullet you can achieve adequate expansion and penetration for defensive use in 380 imho. But I stick to 9mm cause it's more common. And cheaper to shoot in my opinion.
38 special benefits from a lot more case capacity for powder, and heavier bullets. This allowed for most bullets, including traditional styled lead bullets, to adequately expand or deform and still penetrate deep enough to hit vitals.
Yes there are a lot of ways to compare cartridges. Muzzle energy is one. But how the bullet transfers the energy is important too. I have seen more than a few hollow points fail to expand. Or expand so much they don't penetrate deep enough to hit vitals.
38 special benefits from a lot more case capacity for powder, and heavier bullets. This allowed for most bullets, including traditional styled lead bullets, to adequately expand or deform and still penetrate deep enough to hit vitals.
Yes there are a lot of ways to compare cartridges. Muzzle energy is one. But how the bullet transfers the energy is important too. I have seen more than a few hollow points fail to expand. Or expand so much they don't penetrate deep enough to hit vitals.
TruthTellers
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Because Buffalo Bore is considered average for revolver ammunition...
The BB 9mm Mak (9x18) hardcast load is what I carry in my little "beater" CZ 82.
Yes, it gives way better ballistic terminality than any .380 ammo, and using a hard cast projectile the BB load will outpenetrate standard 9mm Parabellum (9x19) ammo.
Plus, whereas the .380 and 9mm bullets run the same .355 dia bullet, the 9mm Mak's is a .365 dia. Admittedly it's an oddball bullet, but that extra 0.01" of "girth" on impact adds to the cartridge's terminal ballistics. There's a reason why the Czech's adopted it.
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HighValleyRanch
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I have the Buffalobore in .380, 9mm, .38 +P, .357, .45 acp and 10mm so I guess I'm a fanboy!
I'll go out on a limb and say that 90% of the people here are LARPing with a gun REGARDLESS of what they carry.
And I never said or even implied that choice of caliber had anything to do with it.
I said that based on experience I'm not comfortable with a .380.
If I have to have an encounter with a street rat, I'm really not comfortable with any handgun caliber but I'll settle for a minimum of 10 rounds of 9mm.
I’d be curious how exactly you’re getting a specific percentage like 90%. I’d also be curious how exactly you’re defining “LARPing” in this context. We may not all be security guards, but that doesn’t mean carrying a firearm is something done out of fulfilling a fantasy. As for implying it had anything to do with caliber choice, that is certainly how it read to me, but if that was incorrect on my part then fair enough.
My personal experience is that most people that carry a firearm do so because of some event in their lives where they felt threatened. We can debate after the fact whether that feeling was justified, but for that person it was often very real. They see that firearm as an option if some similar such event happens again and goes worse. That doesn’t fit “LARPing” to me.
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"Why isn't the .380 considered a viable self defense round by many, but the .38 special is?"
My guess is projectile weight.
An indirect reason could be the container (pistol) for the .380. Many people have trouble shooting the little pistols will the same accuracy as they shoot larger handguns.
My guess is projectile weight.
An indirect reason could be the container (pistol) for the .380. Many people have trouble shooting the little pistols will the same accuracy as they shoot larger handguns.
Dude, I'm not a security guard I'm (as of July 15th) a retiree.
I would define LARPing as having a gun but not getting actual training on how to use it defensively. Carrying a gun that really isn't a viable defensive handgun (Derringer) because it's "Cool". Throwing a "pocket gun" in your pocket because you're "only going out to get milk".
Basically carrying a gun you don't really expect to ever need because it's cool to carry a gun.
I've said it before but that guy who says "carry the gun you'd prefer in hand" isn't wrong.
I've had to defend myself a couple of times and to be honest I NEVER felt "confident". I felt scared every time but I can't think of a better word so
If you wouldn't feel "confident" with the gun you're carrying if you really had to defend yourself with it you shouldn't be carrying it anywhere.
I've said it before but a .380 anything isn't a gun I'm willing to bet my life on.
I also never said you shouldn't , I said I wouldnt
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Congratulations on your retirement.
I’ll be honest and say it’s not that I necessarily disagree with you. I don’t carry a 380. The firearms I have in 9mm are small enough and my carry method and dress allow me to conceal them such that I don’t want a 380.
What I bristle at is the tendency in the firearms community to gatekeep. The tendency to claim that if a person doesn’t do as this person does (whether that’s yourself or not) then that person isn’t serious about self defense. Beyond the fact that I personally find it tiresome after reading it for all these years here, I’ve had enough instructors now that I’ve had instructors that had different philosophies. There is absolutely common ground, but there are also sometimes significant differences when you get into the weeds. Is the guy that carries a 9mm serious about self defense if he doesn’t carry a backup magazine? How does a guy that carries a 380 but carries a backup magazine compare to the guy that carries a single stack 9mm? How do all of these factors rank in comparison? What is the line that must be crossed to go from LARPing to serious?
I don’t know that the guy using the 380 to go to the corner store for milk is doing it because he isn’t serious. Can you be attacked anywhere? Yes. Do risks vary by location and duration in locations? Yes. Someone determining that the risk of going to location A is less than going to location B and that they are going to carry less as a result is that person’s threat assessment. I’m not going to sit here and call them out for LARPing. What they do, unless they are part of my security plan, doesn’t affect me. Ideally if I think a place is dangerous I don’t go there (and you had a good thread about avoidance in Tactics and Training). The gun I want in my hand if I knew I was going to be attacked isn’t a 9mm pistol and I would want more people with me. I do get your point is about the bare minimum.
In the end that’s just how I view this. You’re completely entitled to your opinion. Thinking 90% of the people out there are LARPing seems excessively cynical to me and doesn’t match my own experience, but I’m not you. I just wish the “firearms community” spent less time judging what someone else is doing (seemingly as a means of confirming their own choices) and more time doing practically anything else.
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Thank you
I never made it about caliber.
I think I answered that. If you're walking around with a gun based on its "cool factor", you're LARPing
I am excessively cynical.
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If you EDC a gold-plated .44 Mag Desert Eagle in a shoulder holster under a jacket, you're not Agent Smith. You're LARPing.
If you EDC a 1911 Commander or Glock 19 AWIB, you're being quite practical and non-Poser-ish, and thus you're not LARPing.
So simply even a Millennial would get it.
If you EDC a gold-plated .44 Mag Desert Eagle in a shoulder holster under a jacket, you're not Agent Smith. You're LARPing.
If you EDC a 1911 Commander or Glock 19 AWIB, you're being quite practical and non-Poser-ish, and thus you're not LARPing.
So simply even a Millennial would get it.
Agent Smith’s Desert Eagle wasn’t gold plated.
While I’m aware that there are examples we can come up with that many of us would find obvious, I think what is being discussed here is a tad more subtle.
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