Why isn't the .380 considered a viable self defense round by many, but the .38 special is?

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I would consider pointing out the absolute upper end also a form of picking and choosing.

I don’t really expect Wikipedia to provide caveats for everything. If Wikipedia is anything it is a starting point for general information. With the sheer number of topics covered by Wikipedia it’s a bit ridiculous to expect them to contain expert level knowledge on all topics. That said, Wikipedia is editable by the general public. Submit some edits.


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Carl the Floor Walker said:
I would not know a thing about the Smith and Wesson forum as I do not belong to it. Nor do I know anything about coaching a triathlon. But then again, your comment is not suppose to be about the topic. Not the first time you have done this for sure. It gets old. If you have a opinion about the topic then just post it.
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I was just pointing out that the guy agreed with you. Carried a lot of little pocket guns like you do too.

The closest I come to carrying a pocket gun is a Glock 43 when I can't carry anything bigger. It's a similar size to a Glock 42 but why should I carry a .380 when I can carry a similar sized 9mm?

There was a guy who posted on THR and maybe here, he always posts the same thing "You should always carry the gun you'd prefer to have "in hand" if you actually had to defend yourself." I'm not LARPing when I carry. I've actually had to defend myself and I think about what that guy said every time I put on my gun.

Have the gun you'd prefer to have in hand if you had to defend yourself on you all the time. A .380 isn't that
 
Moonglum said:
I was just pointing out that the guy agreed with you. Carried a lot of little pocket guns like you do too.

The closest I come to carrying a pocket gun is a Glock 43 when I can't carry anything bigger. It's a similar size to a Glock 42 but why should I carry a .380 when I can carry a similar sized 9mm?

There was a guy who posted on THR and maybe here, he always posts the same thing "You should always carry the gun you'd prefer to have "in hand" if you actually had to defend yourself." I'm not LARPing when I carry. I've actually had to defend myself and I think about what that guy said every time I put on my gun.

Have the gun you'd prefer to have in hand if you had to defend yourself on you all the time. A .380 isn't that
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I’ll go out on a limb and say that many people here aren’t in fact “LARPing” when they carry a firearm. Someone not choosing the same cartridge as yourself doesn’t mean that person isn’t serious about self defense. It just means they have different requirements, limitations, etc than yourself and have chosen differently. I don’t think you need to slight people just because they choose differently than yourself.


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funny, colt made and issued 380's to American officers as conceiled carry guns in ww2 while in dress uniform functions. aka the colt pockets. they seemed to work just fine???
 
HighValleyRanch said:
Not my handloads. BB is Buffalobore, and I am sure that Underwoods and some other commercial companies are available with similar loads.
Everyone wants to use watered down .38 special loads as the criterial,
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Buffalo Bore is commercially available ammunition, but it isn't mainstream. I think a fair comparison has to start with standard pressure, standard bullet weight loads from the mainstream manufacturers such as Winchester, Federal, Remington, etc., and shouldn't exclude +P loadings because when the .38 Special and the .380 Auto were developed, they weren't doing +P loads. So if we start by comparing standard pressure loads, there's not a huge difference between .380 Auto and .38 Super.

It's when you get into "niche" manufacturers and +P loadings that things start to open up a bit. Buffalo Bore offers a few loadings in .380 Auto, with the highest muzzle enrgy being their 100-grain hardcast at 294 ft-lbs. However, if I were to abandon my Golden Sabers and buy Buffalo Bore, I would sacrifice a few ft-lbs in favor of getting a hollow-point bullet, so I would choose their 90-grain JHP at 288 ft. lbs.

Granted, when you get into their "heavy" +P loadings for .38 Special, Buffalo Bore has some loads that exceed the top end for .380 Auto. But those are definitely specialty rounds; most people who own .38 Special revolvers have never heard of them, and you probably won't walk into the local gun shop and find those loads on the shelf. The traditional, original loadings aren't "watered down." Rather, the Buffalo Bore +P loadings are beefed up.
 
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stuckinthe60s funny, colt made and issued 380's to American officers as conceiled carry guns in ww2 while in dress uniform functions. aka the colt pockets. they seemed to work just fine???
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Can you tell me how "they seemed to work just fine"?:rolleyes:
I've never heard of one actual use of the Colt 1903 or 1908 by a US officer.
 
I think 380 is perfectly adequate for self defense, given good bullet selection. Many of the hollow point bullets tend to expand properly, but under penetrate. Fmj tends to properly penetrate, but it just punches a pencil hoke. With good bullet selection, like hornady critical defense, or lehigh extreme defenders it's a good choice.

38spl in my experience is neck and neck with 9mm but above 380. The main advantage to 38spl is heavy bullets. I am throwing 158g lead semi wad cutters at 806fps out of a 1.9in barrel snubbing, and 954fps out of my 6in 357. At comparable weights, say 124g both are listed around 1050fps out of my reloading manual at max charge weight.
 
Shadow9mm said:
38spl in my experience is neck and neck with 9mm but above 380. The main advantage to 38spl is heavy bullets. I am throwing 158g lead semi wad cutters at 806fps out of a 1.9in barrel snubbing
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Not even close, I'm doing 124g out of a 3 inch barrel at close to 1100 fps. with over 400 ftp. of energy at the muzzle with the 9mm.
Then when you really want to talk smack I'm doing 125g out of a 1.87 inch barrel at over 1100 fps. and over 500 ftp. of energy at the muzzle with a .357 snubby.


The .38 special is simply a .22 plinker for the range that's centerfire. Some would even be embarrass to shoot someone with that round.
 
Mulebuk Mojo said:
Not even close, I'm doing 124g out of a 3 inch barrel at close to 1100 fps. with over 400 ftp. of energy at the muzzle with the 9mm.
Then when you really want to talk smack I'm doing 125g out of a 1.87 inch barrel at over 1100 fps. and over 500 ftp. of energy at the muzzle with a .357 snubby.


The .38 special is simply a .22 plinker for the range that's centerfire. Some would even be embarrass to shoot someone with that round.
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The two cartridges you’re comparing yield the same muzzle velocity, but a difference of 1 gr in the projectile weight equates to a difference of 100 ft. lb. of energy? How?


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No actually we’re talking about math.

Ballistics by the inch has a 125 gr projectile moving at 1050 FPS put of a 2” barrel. The lb. ft. is below 400. You have to be seriously underestimating your velocity to get the lb. ft you’re claiming.

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/357mag.html

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/megraphs/357mag.html

You would need a muzzle velocity of around 1350 FPS to get muzzle energy of over 500 lb. ft.

https://shooterscalculator.com/bullet-kinetic-energy.php

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Where are you getting these figures.
When I enter 125 grain and 1100 fps, I only get 336 foot pounds energy and 455 joules according to shooters caculator.com
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But then I agree that .38 +P and 9mm are close with some advantage to .38 +P in that it can shoot a heavier bullet (again in my case for penetration against critters) at about the same muzzle energy.
The 9mm can get higher muzzle energy by going lighter and faster, but not what you want for deeper penetration in bone.
All you have to do is compare the Buffalobore .38+P Outdoorsman and the Buffalobore 9mm Outdoorsman and see that.
 

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I guess neither I nor High Valley Ranch nor mathematics know what we’re talking about.


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Someone’s is. You’re currently in the minority. By all means give me the equation you’re using. Then all we have to do is plug in the variables.


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I'm doing 124g out of a 3 inch barrel at close to 1100 fps. with over 400 ftp. of energy at the muzzle with the 9mm.
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Mojo, I believe you are off on your calculations. I agree with Tunnelrat that 1 grain difference in bullet weight is not going to yield 100 ft. pounds difference......ever.

When you only post wise crack remarks versus screenshots of a well know reloaders source calculator, you only hurt your own arguments.
Show some real proof of calculations
 

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