Why don't revolver carriers worry about capacity?

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J.G. Terry said:
We have have the option of designing the scenario of the attack. Therefor our choice of firearm is perfect.:rolleyes:
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Thats usually how things work. You always win the battle in your mind. :)

Unfortunately, I dont think a lot of people go much beyond that in reality.
 
I will take a 357 magnum over a 9mm any day, and usually over a 45 too.
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Pretty sure we've had this discussion before - but - again - I'll take a full sized 9mm over a ,357 magnum any time.

I had a S&WM66 snubbie once. I took it to the range along with my Browning Hi Power.
When I cleaned them afterwards, I notice that when I laid one on top of the other, they were exactly the same size.
When I held them up and looked at them from the back, the M66 was wider.

I know you prefer a J frame - but - I've tried one before & I can't use on worth a crap. I have to shift my grip to work the trigger in D/A. That makes a J frame worse than useless to me.

When you compare a 124 grain 9mm +P out of a full sized gun, to a 125 grain .357 magnum out of a 2" and/or 1 7/8 " barrel, the 9mm is right there with it & there's no way the 5 shot & an extra speedloader - which still leaves you short of what the 9 can hold - come anywhere close to being a carriable.

HOWEVER - having said all that - -the only thing that matters is what you can do with what you carry.
If the .357 mag in a J frame is what you do best,,,
 
Loading a Revolver with one hand

What really had impact on me was the famous FBI shootout. One agent was trying to load his revolver one handed since arm are smashed in the gunfight.

Personally, my choice is a Glock compact. G23 is OK but the G29 tops them all. Still like revolvers but the auto's rule in confrontations. I would prefer, other than a Glock, is my HK USP Compact in 45 ACP. It's just too big.
 
AK103K said:
I got the drift of that part.



My question was how do you practice that?



Dont usually see people throwing guns on the ground at the range while they are shooting. :D



I would hope if thats your plan, you regularly practice shooting that way, so your brain knows where to go look for the next gun, and the transitions are smooth and done without thought.
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Yes.

Well I practice shooting with either hand.

For safety purposes, I do it predominantly unloaded but where I put them is easily accessible, and the location is by muscle memory. When I do live fire practice with three, I have a folded tarp on my backyard range that I drop the gun onto since I don’t like cleaning off dirt and gravel.


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What really had impact on me was the famous FBI shootout. One agent was trying to load his revolver one handed since arm are smashed in the gunfight.
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Your point is not without merit.

However consider that situation and how badly it went. Multiple agents acting as the aggressors controlling time and place of the engagement. There was even further back-up before the event was over.

If I ever find myself on the wrong side of two competent and determined attackers such as those in the FBI shoot-out, who will reverse the role of aggressor in choosing time and place of the attack, it doesn't matter what I am armed with. I will not fair as well as the FBI team did and they did not fair well.

I know there is a feeling among some that we create a situation in our mind and then build tactics and equipment to it to justify what we are doing and in our mind we are successful. This is not always the case. We are all mortal and we all have our limits. Sometimes we just have to accept that we cannot win every scenario.
 
I know you prefer a J frame - but - I've tried one before & I can't use on worth a crap. I have to shift my grip to work the trigger in D/A. That makes a J frame worse than useless to me.
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You talking to me? If so, No I prefer an L frame in a revolver. I actually prefer a S&W model 69 44 magnum.

When you compare a 124 grain 9mm +P out of a full sized gun, to a 125 grain .357 magnum out of a 2" and/or 1 7/8 " barrel, the 9mm is right there with it & there's no way the 5 shot & an extra speedloader - which still leaves you short of what the 9 can hold - come anywhere close to being a carriable.
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How about when you compare it to a 3" or 4" revolver? I actually prefer a 357 Sig, lets cherry pick rounds shall we. Carry-able? I have been carrying pistols for 40 years, OK......

HOWEVER - having said all that - -the only thing that matters is what you can do with what you carry.
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Bingo...

If the .357 mag in a J frame is what you do best,,,
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Never said that. Don't fall into the trap of "I can't do it, so nobody else can".

I do own a J Frame 357 magnum, it is a fine revolver and does get carry time as a BUG and around my property.
 
The point was about loading a revolver with one hand. I do not have a crystal ball. I don't see being wounded bad enough to have to load my revolver with one hand as being totally unlikely. By all accounts the FBI encounter was random for both sides. Additionally, there was much wild or inaccurate shooting. That's why I am skeptical about scenarios. Given several minutes the shootout may have never happened. I find the vast number of people who carry do not practice with their handgun with or with scenarios.
 
The 26 is about the same size as one of my J frames, but handles and shoots like a near full sized gun. And with a quick mag swap, can basically be one.
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The 26 is a great gun that shoots like a full sized pistol. I won't part with mine and I carry it when I can. While it's not bad to carry most of the time, the G26 isn't nearly as easy to carry concealed as a J frame Airlight or Airweight for me. My G26 weighs about twice what the 342 does when both are loaded and its shape isn't as conducive to carry. The G26 is a great little pistol but it will never be as easy to carry as the 342.


I lead a pretty active lifestyle, both at work and play, and even when youre climbing in and out of ditches, equipment, doing very physical things, its still very comfortable and very concealable, and thats wearing a pair of Carhartt's or Dickie carpenter type pants.
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I'm a bit over six feet tall, 215 lbs and have to climb in and out of customer's vehicles and sometimes in and out of the engine compartment or slide up under the dash. I have no problem with the G26 out at the hunting land whether it's walking through tough terrain climbing up ladder stands or getting on a tractor. Trying to get into and out of a small car like a Miata or 11th generation Thunderbird isn't easy while carrying anything AIWB. Spending a few hours leaning on an upper radiator support of a vehicle while doing work and having what ever you are carrying between you and the support pressing into your lower abdomen isn't fun but it's even less fun with the Glock.

During the few months that it is cool enough in the shop here in Georgia each year, I can carry the G26 under a coat or jacket outside the waistband but I have to be careful not to bang the gun into things as I maneuver around the shop but it is doable. The 342 or 642 is a firearm that I can carry concealed 365 days each year. When I retire, I might go to the G26 but for now, the 342 gets the nod. It's not ideal but the 342 never interferes with me being able to do my job and that is the primary concern.
 
...I accept five. It’s highly unlikely I ever fire a single round in a combat situation. It’s orders of magnitude more unlikely I need more than 5. In the event I do need more than five it’s more orders of magnitude more unlikely that I would be successful in using them. I’m also not in a position where if I’m out of ammunition I suddenly have zero ability to defend myself.

So if I meet the Valkyries with an empty and smoking J frame I will have this befuddled look wondering how, living a fairly peaceful lifestyle in a relatively safe area of the modern world, I managed to die in combat. Considering all four of my grandparents died of cancer there are likely worse ways to go.
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Me too. No judgements on what others do. But this was a great reminder of the need to do a universal risk assessment.
 
Given that a CCW revolver carries maybe 7 at most, depending on caliber, with 5 being typical -- and reloads are much more challenging even with practice -- do revolver carriers just have a different philosophy of what counts as "enough?"
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Is the conscious decision "5 shots are enough" necessary before carrying a revolver, or does one choose a revolver on other merits and then accept the capacity?

Just curious about the thought process.
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I like both autos and revolvers. When I can carry, I carry both at various times. At different times, I've favored one over the other, though currently I'm about even.

So, my opinion may not be typical.

Further, when carrying autos, I rarely carry the smaller guns anymore. My usual the past few years is my CZ 75 Compact, PCR or P01, or sometimes my S&W 40c when I want to go smaller (though even that is often carried with a 15 round mag and grip extension making it functionally a compact and not subcompact gun). Granted, my main reason is that larger compact autos shoot much like a full sized gun and I want that level of performance (quicker follow up shots, easier to shoot accurately), but I also appreciate the greater capacity.

The fact is, while I basically prepare for the worst case scenario when I carry an auto, I often go for a more likely scenario and carry a revolver. Why?

  • It has enough capacity. Most defensive shootings are well under the capacity of a revolver. Most attackers will run at the sight of a gun given that no one wants to be shot (of course, while we really have to be prepared for the fact that may not be the case, the likelihood of several dedicated enough attackers that they are willing to take fire is infinitesimally low). Granted, I'm not comfortable with 5 shots, but then, I will carry a 6 shot revolver when I carry a revolver.
  • (Other than J-frames) I shoot revolvers better than most other guns. For the same reason I like larger autos, I like non-J-frame revolvers. I want a gun I can shoot well under pressure. Now, despite that, for some specialized reasons (back up, pocket gun, to maximize concealment) I'll sometimes go for a J-frame sized gun, in my case my 6 shot Taurus 856, but it isn't my first choice.
  • Comfort and concealment. While many auto fans here have mentioned the supposed specs/measurement advantages of autos (greater ammo capacity at the same size), many revolver fans mentioned one of my number one reasons for going for a revolver at times. The squared off corners of an auto look like a gun. In a pocket or if your shirt tightens so that it prints, it screams 'gun'. On the other hand, the softer, rounded edges of a revolver look more natural and don't stand out the same way. Further, I like IWB carry, and the softer edges of a revolver are much more comfortable than the sharper edges of an auto.
  • I like them. I like revolvers. I very intentionally started on revolvers as my first handguns that I shot and the first that I bought. I really like the history, the charm of revolvers. So, there really is a possibility that there is some degree of deciding I want to carry a revolver, so 6-7 rounds has to be enough. If I didn't like revolvers the way I do, I don't know if the slightly more concealable or the more comfortable aspects of it would make it beat out double stack subcompacts like the Glock 26 or my M&P40c or compacts like my CZs. Even as it is, I do carry autos more (lately that hasn't been the case, but over the years it has).
  • Finally, I don't live in a carry state. I can only carry when in a state that will honor my UT non-resident permit (though I live near enough to WV, VA, PA and DE that I'm generally there 2 to 3 days a month). Further, since I'm a teacher, I can only even carry a knife and/or pepper spray when not at work (and I don't leave them in my car so that means anywhere I stop on my way home from work I'm also totally unarmed). So, even a lowly 5 shot J-frame is a vast improvement over the normal level of self-defensive preparedness I'm normally allowed. So, I guess, while I'd rather have greater capacity, I still feel better prepared than I usually do just from the fact that I'm carrying something.
 
Lohman446 said:
In another thread it is pointed out I am being fatalistic but I believe the hour of your death is appointed and the only say you have in it is how you face it.



I also believe that a situation that would require me to need more than 5 involves either one very competent and determined individual or likely multiple competent and determined individuals. I believe I know the limit of my own skills and I doubt, given the reactionary nature of not being the aggressor, that I can defeat multiple determined and competent attackers before I am overcome.



So for me I accept five. It’s highly unlikely I ever fire a single round in a combat situation. It’s orders of magnitude more unlikely I need more than 5. In the event I do need more than five it’s more orders of magnitude more unlikely that I would be successful in using them. I’m also not in a position where if I’m out of ammunition I suddenly have zero ability to defend myself.



So if I meet the Valkyries with an empty and smoking J frame I will have this befuddled look wondering how, living a fairly peaceful lifestyle in a relatively safe area of the modern world, I managed to die in combat. Considering all four of my grandparents died of cancer there are likely worse ways to go.



Edit: I feel I must note my opinion relates only to me. Others know their circumstances better than I do and should be free to make the choices they feel are appropriate in regards to their natural right of effective self defense.



Edit 2: to avoid spiraling this thread out of hand I will avoid responding other than to answer questions posed or clarify my position in the event I have failed to properly express it
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This is the best way I have ever heard it put. Agree totally....


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I submit to you that the difference is not HUGE. The 45 ACP is still past the threshold for pain. Yes, I understand how decibels work.
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It is a pretty big difference.

168.8dB for the .357Mag GP100
169dB for the .357Mag 586
159dB for the .45ACP 1911.

Based on those numbers, the .357Mag generates 9.5 to 10 times greater sound pressure levels than the .45ACP. An order of magnitude higher sound pressure.
 
As a civilian, I don't really expect to be in a gunfight. Someone may try to mug me or carjack me from close range, but someone spraying bullets at me from far away seems unlikely.
 
Capacity certainly matters but it isn't the only thing that matters. I carry a revolver more than half the year. Here is my reasoning:

1. I feel a lot better carrying a full-sized semi-auto with 15ish rounds. However, I can't always comfortably conceal that. So when I can't, I don't.

2. I feel a lot better carrying a compact semi-auto with 8-12 rounds. However, I can't always comfortably conceal that. So when I can't, I don't.

3. Once I'm down to the realm of pocket carry, choices become limited. I haven't tried the P365 yet but other 9mm subcompacts like the Shield and PPS have been a bit awkward for me. That leaves me with a choice between .380 or a hammerless revolver. While .357 magnum is a little brutal in that size, I prefer .38 +p to .380 and there are other benefits to a small revolver.

So I carried a 442 and later an LCR during warm weather. I was never entirely comfortable with five shots but a gun carried is better than a gun somewhere else. As soon as the LCR 327 became available, I picked one up. It's fairly comfortable to shoot with 85-grain loads. That's the same weight as a lot of .380 loads but there's significantly more velocity, better sectional density on the way in, and reliable expansion.

Strangely, I feel much better with a six-shooter than I do a five-gun. That might be a psychological throwback to another time and a hint at my age. It's also a decent number for what I can comfortably carry all day in a pants pocket.
 
J.G. Terry said:
What really had impact on me was the famous FBI shootout. One agent was trying to load his revolver one handed since arm are smashed in the gunfight.
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Actually, he was shot in the hand with the Mini-14...

Physically loading was not the issue; having blood/meat/bone in the cylinder/lock work was the problem. And since accuracy was brought up, this same agent was the one to put the first rounds into the suspects, namely the driver’s head (Matix), which really did keep him out of the fight. More agents would have died if Matix was actively shooting alongside Platt.

The agent with the shattered arm (Mireles) was the one who worked the 870 one handed, and emptied his revolver into the cab to finish the suspects off.

Miami also shows that semi-autos are not perfect either; .223 round through the slide puts most out of commission. It is actually a shooting where A LOT of lessons were learned... many still applicable today. Mireles’ book on it is something I highly recommend.

For DA pull, as mentioned earlier... it comes down to how much you put into it. I can make good hits with my 642 within 25 yards... ok hits past that. Dry fire practice with CT grips.

For reloading one handed, do people practice shooting one handed? Never understood why that was made a big deal, but if you are shooting weak side... your strong hand isn’t going to work for your reload. Even my own agency makes us qualify weak hand... but I don’t think I’ve seen anyone go over reloads. But that is something that is conceivable... so I do practice that manipulation from time to time.
 
I live and work on a beef cattle farm. I tote a 4” barrel revolver daily, usually a 329 .44 mag or a model 19 .357 mag. My side arm is a daily working gun or tool. I have many auto loaders and at points in my life have carried them. Truth is though when routinely taking shots at coyotes or wild hogs at distances up to 100yds bottom feeders always come up short. In situations where a 1000 pound plus animal needs to be put down a .45 acp is just plain inhuman at point blank distances much less a 9mm. In situations where I don’t need a full hog leg strapped to my side I typically stick a snub nose in my pocket. Why? Because that is what I am comfortable with and what I am practiced with. The gun you have with you and can shoot well is better than the one left at home or worse the one you can’t hit the side of a barn with. Also, having put handgun rounds on living targets for the last 30 years has given me a pretty good data set to base my opinion of round efficiency on. I would take a single well placed shot of .44 mag over 15 9mm rounds any day if my life depended on it. Different strokes.
 
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