silvermane_1
New member
357 Mag is a great all around cal., and it works best out of a 4"-6" bbl., as others have said everyone should at least have one wheelgun in 357 Mag.
Why do some people dislike .357 magnum?
- Thread starter charlesc
- Start date
.357: 180 gr. WFN @ 1200fps...
Frankly the L-frame 686 RB with a four inch barrel and Hogue synthetic grips is one of the easiest hanguns to hit with in my experience. Forget single action, the smooth roll of a tuned DA trigger makes all the difference in the field. With 180 grain WFNgc bullets, a .28" to .30" meplat gives deep penetration and a wide wound channel. The 180's are the heaviest that can be sighted in without a taller front sight and the extra bullet weight results in muzzle blast reduction compared to lighter bullets. Bottom line, enough power to do the job in the lower 48 and easy to shoot well.
Frankly the L-frame 686 RB with a four inch barrel and Hogue synthetic grips is one of the easiest hanguns to hit with in my experience. Forget single action, the smooth roll of a tuned DA trigger makes all the difference in the field. With 180 grain WFNgc bullets, a .28" to .30" meplat gives deep penetration and a wide wound channel. The 180's are the heaviest that can be sighted in without a taller front sight and the extra bullet weight results in muzzle blast reduction compared to lighter bullets. Bottom line, enough power to do the job in the lower 48 and easy to shoot well.
Why the hate??
Why do some people hate the .357? Because few people are objective, all are physically different and many have experiences that bias their view of what is 'good' to shoot and what is 'bad' to shoot.
There are so many metrics that you could use to grade the value of a given round. Surely the .357 covers a wide spectrum of use cases from SD/HD to small and medium game shooting. But measured that way, the .454 Cassull or a .500 would score yet better because it's spectrum of use would reach up to yet-larger game while still being able to fill the SD/HD role.
Of course the .454.500 are the jack of all trades but really the master of none. It just solves the, 'if I only had one...' issue.
So the haters of the .357 are grading it against some secret preferred use. Likely SD/HD where many view it as powerful enough to risk overpenetration.
Ultimately though, it only matters what you prefer.
B
Why do some people hate the .357? Because few people are objective, all are physically different and many have experiences that bias their view of what is 'good' to shoot and what is 'bad' to shoot.
There are so many metrics that you could use to grade the value of a given round. Surely the .357 covers a wide spectrum of use cases from SD/HD to small and medium game shooting. But measured that way, the .454 Cassull or a .500 would score yet better because it's spectrum of use would reach up to yet-larger game while still being able to fill the SD/HD role.
Of course the .454.500 are the jack of all trades but really the master of none. It just solves the, 'if I only had one...' issue.
So the haters of the .357 are grading it against some secret preferred use. Likely SD/HD where many view it as powerful enough to risk overpenetration.
Ultimately though, it only matters what you prefer.
B
charlesc,
I don't think that people dislike the .357 Magnum. I think that when neophytes begin exploring handguns, the myths and urban legends of the .357 Magnum provoke delusions of grandeur. Further exposure to research and acquisition of knowledge finally reveals the truth about the .357 Magnum: it is not a handgunner's panacea; however, it is a damned good cartridge.
In my opinion, Marshal & Sanow's opinions of the .357 Magnum have caused it far more harm than anything. The .357 Magnum is not a one-shot manstopper, it is not as powerful as the .41 & .44 Rem Mags, a wheel gun has many self-defense limitations, and it's marginal as a hunting cartridge. However, these facts do not diminish the fact that the .357 Mag has utility.
Were I restricted to one handgun, it would be a 1911A1 in .45 ACP. For me, that's a no brainer. Were I granted ability to augment my single handgun battery, it would be with a .357 Mag.
I don't think that people dislike the .357 Magnum. I think that when neophytes begin exploring handguns, the myths and urban legends of the .357 Magnum provoke delusions of grandeur. Further exposure to research and acquisition of knowledge finally reveals the truth about the .357 Magnum: it is not a handgunner's panacea; however, it is a damned good cartridge.
In my opinion, Marshal & Sanow's opinions of the .357 Magnum have caused it far more harm than anything. The .357 Magnum is not a one-shot manstopper, it is not as powerful as the .41 & .44 Rem Mags, a wheel gun has many self-defense limitations, and it's marginal as a hunting cartridge. However, these facts do not diminish the fact that the .357 Mag has utility.
Were I restricted to one handgun, it would be a 1911A1 in .45 ACP. For me, that's a no brainer. Were I granted ability to augment my single handgun battery, it would be with a .357 Mag.
Clark:
Huh? 357 loads would never fit in any 38 I have seen. How do you do that?
charlesc:
The caliber (that is the diameter of the bullet) is the same in both 357/38. There is a difference in the length of the brass, which prevents the 357 from being inserted into a 38. There is enough casing length on the 38 to easily put in enough powder to bring them to magnum pressures (re-loaders), but not a safe thing to do. The 38 is not likely strong enough. The guns chambered for 357 are built strong enough to withstand the pressures.
One thing happens when you shoot 38s in a 357. There will be a carbon ring formed at the end of the brass and this then may make it hard or impossible to chamber a 357. A good cleaning will remove it and the arm is not damaged.
No it doesn't harm the 357 to shoot 38s in it. Just clean it when done...... and as noted you won't be shooting 357s in a 38 unless you are Clark.
Huh? 357 loads would never fit in any 38 I have seen. How do you do that?
charlesc:
The caliber (that is the diameter of the bullet) is the same in both 357/38. There is a difference in the length of the brass, which prevents the 357 from being inserted into a 38. There is enough casing length on the 38 to easily put in enough powder to bring them to magnum pressures (re-loaders), but not a safe thing to do. The 38 is not likely strong enough. The guns chambered for 357 are built strong enough to withstand the pressures.
One thing happens when you shoot 38s in a 357. There will be a carbon ring formed at the end of the brass and this then may make it hard or impossible to chamber a 357. A good cleaning will remove it and the arm is not damaged.
No it doesn't harm the 357 to shoot 38s in it. Just clean it when done...... and as noted you won't be shooting 357s in a 38 unless you are Clark.
I happened to be in law enforcement during the heyday of the 357 Magnum and that is what most of us carried. I worked in a big city PD in Texas and the US BP in Texas. I can say that I have seen lots of people shot with a 357 magnum. Everybody that was shot once had their behavior modified at the very least, anyone I saw shot more than once was DRT.
One really, and that is capacity. A good revolver shooter will smoke the average auto user everytime.
For big game? It is the minimum I would use. I would rather use a 44 Magnum for hunting.
The 357 magnum saw service with bullet weight varying from 110 grains to 158 grains from 4 or 5 different manufactures each designing the bullet slightly different. These differences will account for differences in performance. Different shot placement accounts for differing performance. There have been documented failures with every caliber, but, the 357 magnum performed more consistently and more effectively than most.
That actually has several factors that weigh on the decision. The perceived lack of firepower led most departments to semi auto's almost 20 years ago. The agency I was working for during this transition (USBP) did quite a study in the early 1990's not wanting a 9mm or 45 ACP but still wanting a semi auto with a power level near to the 357 magnum we currently used with a higher capacity. This led to the adoption of the then new 40 S&W with a 155 grain JHP @ 1250 fps as the contract load.
The other factor, similar to the problem with the 10mm and other high power rounds is that police recruits were no longer coming from the military as much, new recruits were not shooters many cannot handle the recoil.
For the Border Patrol working in remote areas far from help the hicap semi auto is a natural. The problem I see in LE is that firepower and fancy toys has replaced training.
My 4 5/8" Vaquero is LOUD no doubt about it! +P's just a little quieter, but FPE skirts many 9mm's and the High Preformance 38 Special 125 gr loads are very formidable!
On the trail. foam ear plugs protect you from the .357 and +P but nothing is really needed for .38 Specials. Guess I have enough hearing loss...
When I bought the Ruger Vaquero I wanted the highest powered meduim frame revolver I could get. Face it, Rugers are tougher than anything! No "iffy" imported steel for this gun!
Hope I didn;t offend anyone!
BPDave
On the trail. foam ear plugs protect you from the .357 and +P but nothing is really needed for .38 Specials. Guess I have enough hearing loss...
When I bought the Ruger Vaquero I wanted the highest powered meduim frame revolver I could get. Face it, Rugers are tougher than anything! No "iffy" imported steel for this gun!
Hope I didn;t offend anyone!
BPDave
ZVP, I agree: Rugers are rugged.
For me, the .357 Mag is the most powerful handgun that I can shoot with accurate follow-up shots. For me, anything more powerful is useless if I can't hit what I'm aiming.
BTW, I just bought a GP 100. However, I live in a totalitarian state, and I have to wait until February to pick it up. We're only allowed to buy one handgun a month in CA, which is abjectly stupid. I bought a .22 handgun for my daughter for Christmas. I put a deposit on the same model .22 for my son's birthday which is next month. And I get to pick up my GP 100 in February.
For me, the .357 Mag is the most powerful handgun that I can shoot with accurate follow-up shots. For me, anything more powerful is useless if I can't hit what I'm aiming.
BTW, I just bought a GP 100. However, I live in a totalitarian state, and I have to wait until February to pick it up. We're only allowed to buy one handgun a month in CA, which is abjectly stupid. I bought a .22 handgun for my daughter for Christmas. I put a deposit on the same model .22 for my son's birthday which is next month. And I get to pick up my GP 100 in February.
Nanuk,
Politically, this state is beyond a lost cause. Obamanation didn't campaign here, yet he took every single one of this state's electoral votes by winning 57% of the popular vote. The politicians are bad enough. Living with morons that keep electing them make it almost unbearable.
The gun store where I bough all three guns gets to keep my 30% deposit I had to fork over for each & I get zero in return until I'm deemed safe to own them. If I'm buying one, why can't I get all three at the same time? If I already own handguns, why do I have to wait to get handguns for my kids? What if I had seven kids and wanted to buy each a .22 handgun for Christmas? These laws have nothing to do with criminals. They have everything to do with inconveniencing law abiding citizens. When did we have to start proving we're not criminals? I thought the state had that burden.
Oh yeah, I do like the .357 Magnum. I have a lot of respect for it. I do like S&W revolvers. But Ruger makes damn good ones, too.
Politically, this state is beyond a lost cause. Obamanation didn't campaign here, yet he took every single one of this state's electoral votes by winning 57% of the popular vote. The politicians are bad enough. Living with morons that keep electing them make it almost unbearable.
The gun store where I bough all three guns gets to keep my 30% deposit I had to fork over for each & I get zero in return until I'm deemed safe to own them. If I'm buying one, why can't I get all three at the same time? If I already own handguns, why do I have to wait to get handguns for my kids? What if I had seven kids and wanted to buy each a .22 handgun for Christmas? These laws have nothing to do with criminals. They have everything to do with inconveniencing law abiding citizens. When did we have to start proving we're not criminals? I thought the state had that burden.
Oh yeah, I do like the .357 Magnum. I have a lot of respect for it. I do like S&W revolvers. But Ruger makes damn good ones, too.
The first handgun I ever fired was a 357. I was extremely nervous because everyone talks it up as having intense recoil. I made the mistake of reading comments about it all over the internet, with people saying it was uncomfortable or painful to shoot. When I actually fired it, I was disappointed! I don't find 357 to have too much recoil at all. Maybe I'm just not sensitive to it. One thing I can say is that having started with 357, it is my standard for recoil now. Anything with less recoil than 357 feels like it has none at all.
BarkSlayer
New member
I'm one of those guys who doesn't care much for the .357 Magnum for the three reasons cited most frequently in this thread. I had a 3" 686, a 4" 686 and a 6" 586 and the 586 was by far the best shooting experience (less felt recoil, muzzle flip, noise, etc.). I also had a short barrel Model 60 which IMO was ridiculous with the .357 round. All of those revolvers are gone now, replaced with more "manageable for me" choices.