Who will US Army pick

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Freethought said:
I believe they plan to enter the P320. In that case I don't see why they can't meet the price point.

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I'll believe that striker fired *anything* will compete for the contract when I actually see it and not before.

The brass doesn't have that much common sense........Bruce Gray thinks very highly of the 320 , convinced me to give one a try or two , overall I think it's a better unit than the Glock. But IF striker pistols compete for the contract I'd hazard a guess that the Glocks will come in lower pricewise than the 320 will.

In reality I'd bet that what's going to happen is going to amount to a lot of jawing and nothing done , at least not in a timely manner if at all.
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SIG has already stated that its entry will be the P320. If your argument is that they won't actually do that, then I have no way to disprove your opinion or predict the future. All I can do is go off of what they have stated.

http://www.militarytimes.com/story/...s-discuss-offerings-new-army-pistol/73943028/
 
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I hope people paid attention to Old Marksmans comments about the support costs getting out of control. Keeping the current pistols is not a cheap alternative. Maintaining the aged guns is not as cheap as it was 50 years ago as labor costs have really climbed.

I don't think the Glock G4 will meet the modularity requirements. The backstrap is insufficient.
 
A little part of me is kind of shocked Glock hasn't just Gooped out a new frame to meet the requirements and slapped a positive external safety on a Glock 17.

Could be they don't want the business? Lack the capacity?

Just seems like a G17 without finger grooves and a bit better modularity in the grip with a safety makes a hell of a lot of sense.
-They are dirt cheap.
-They are proven time and again to run for damn ever
-They have been around well long enough to have all the bugs worked out and have a super reliable history.
-They have parts and magazines out the wazoo that are dirt cheap. I think Pep Boys has a Glock Isle these days.
-They are used and tested by Law Enforcement all over the world so there is plenty of real world feedback.
-Hell they can be suppressed reliably. I mean its not all that hard to get them setup to run full auto for God sake. (Completely useless that full auto thing, I know just sayin')
-They can be maintained/disassembled by a 12 year old with rusty nail, bad eyesight and a spoon.

I mean I truly am not a GLOCK guy but it is hard to argue with a proven platform that is high capacity, built hell for stout, run to obscene round counts unheard of back when we chose the 92, about as abuse resistant as it gets this side of an anvil and have enough ugly to built in to frighten away small children and superstitious cultures.

I know I am simplifying the change the grip / throw a safety on there but that is certainly easier then lets create a new gun and ramp parts for the new gun and ramp up magazines for the new gun and test the new gun etc. etc.
 
Not to mention the light weight and heck if you want a CID gun or some such you have the 19 or 26 that use all the same magazines, parts, training etc. etc.

.............and they make a .45 and a 10mm so you guys can be happy too. ;):D:rolleyes:

I guess the lack of it being hammer fired might be a problem with the military. I would think hammer fired could be more reliable in really adverse conditions due to gunk getting in firing pin channels etc. Does a hammer fire impart more force making a failure to fire less likely???
 
Cutting and pasting info that someone else wrote as if it was yours is a bit disingenuous don't you think or do you also go by the handle Texas1911?
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Whatever , I fail to see how valid information rendered could be considered to be disingenuous , if I pulled the various pdfs on this available from govt sources would that also be your tack?

And any individuals other handles anywhere else are your business exactly how? Is that some sort of attempt at fishing for something? Or is it just a thinly veiled threat of something? A " leave the discussion" statement perhaps?
 
SIG has already stated that its entry will be the P320. If your argument is that they won't actually do that, then I have no way to disprove your opinion or predict the future. All I can do is go off of what they have stated.
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I'm aware of the above , that said cynic that I am and having experience with the way these things work out causes the " I'll believe it when I see it " statement and attitude.

Quite frankly , though I'm not big on Glocks the Glock is the logical choice , as has already been pointed out.

I've seen this discussion a whole slew of times , in a whole slew of forums. About the only consistent point of agreement is that the brass in charge will yet again figure out the best way to screw the whole thing up.........AGAIN.
 
How hard is it to say:

9mm
Polymer
Proven
Low price
Highy reliable
Reasonably Accurate.
Has a snub nosed version
Fits lots of hand sizes

(did it REALLY take the Army 350 pages over a decade to say this?)

Okay, now stop wasting tax payer money and go buy an M&P or SR9 because "Murica" and be done with it. It's a handgun, not a jet fighter. You point it at bad people and bullets come out.
 
Quite frankly , though I'm not big on Glocks the Glock is the logical choice , as has already been pointed out.
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Because I don't believe the Glock meets the level of modularity and ambidextrous features the competition requirements seem to suggest. Now if your argument is that the competition requirements need revising, I'm not opposed to that notion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modular_Handgun_System#Requirements

About the only consistent point of agreement is that the brass in charge will yet again figure out the best way to screw the whole thing up.........AGAIN.
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While I certainly agree that the US government has its share of failures, I'm not sure what specifically you mean by "AGAIN". Do you mean the previous trials that lead to the adoption of the M9? If so, in what ways do you consider the M9 a failure? I saw you mentioned magazines and slide failures before. To my knowledge the magazine issues were at least partly the fault of the government outsourcing magazines, not so much the fault of Beretta. While there were slide failures with a select batch of M9s, they seemed relatively limited and mostly seem to have been corrected.
 
TunnelRat said:
I saw you mentioned magazines and slide failures before. To my knowledge the magazine issues were at least partly the fault of the government outsourcing magazines, not so much the fault of Beretta. While there were slide failures with a select batch of M9s, they seemed relatively limited and mostly seem to have been corrected.
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Checkmate.... LOL ;)
 
Tell you what TR , answer a coupla questions and we'll go from there. 1. DID you serve?
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You know the answer to that question from reading the thread. The answer is no. That hardly means I don't know anything about firearms, or the DoD procurement process. When we get to a thread that asks, "Do you know what it's like to take enemy fire?" then I won't participate. Nor is this a thread about small unit tactics. Until then there are facts like weight, size, caliber, etc. that I don't need to have served to understand. I have the ability to read and a fair amount of hands on experience with the pistols mentioned here. If you want to pull the, "You don't know anything cause you weren't in the military" line, that's your call. To me it's the easy out of the conversation. Refute what I said with details of your own experience then.

And do me a favor , spare the Wiki cite of the requirements , keep in mind that I'm ex-military..........so don't you think I'm probably familar with said requirements?
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Depending on when you did or didn't get out of the military you may or may not be familiar with the requirements of this particular competition. Each competition has slightly different requirements. For that matter, other people reading the thread may not be as well. Nothing I have said has been a challenge to your experience. Relax.

And what makes you think that if Glock had a chance at the contract they wouldn't build to suit?
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Do you have any evidence that they are submitting something different? I know Glock has added manual safeties in the past for other users, but I wasn't aware of them doing that here.

Would I prefer to see SIG get this , sure I would. However at this point the Glock is more of a proven entity than is the P320.
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I don't care who gets it. I work in the realm of what is known at this point in time. At this point in time what we know is fairly limited. The requirements of the competition, in their current form, is something we know now and we know some initial details about what the manufacturers are submitting, but that doesn't mean their final submissions will be as such.
 
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Easy to do when the takedown lever is already down.
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Yes but Jet Li used the force to will the takedown level into position. True story, I read it in the National Inquirer while standing in line at the grocery store. :D
 
I mean I truly am not a GLOCK guy but it is hard to argue with a proven platform that is high capacity,
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Easy. The Ruger American was designed from the beginning to, with the use of the back and sidestraps, fit the larger 95% of womens hands and the smaller 95% of mens hands. For a unit as large as the US Army that is important. It has been an issue with the M9. No double stack Glock comes ANYWHERE close to that. With the side straps the grip can REALLY be changed in size on the American. The Sig 320 can possibly match, but probably none of the others.
 
johnwilliamson062 said:
Easy. The Ruger American was designed from the beginning to, with the use of the back and sidestraps, fit the larger 95% of womens hands and the smaller 95% of mens hands. For a unit as large as the US Army that is important. It has been an issue with the M9. No double stack Glock comes ANYWHERE close to that. With the side straps the grip can REALLY be changed in size on the American. The Sig 320 can possibly match, but probably none of the others.
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I thought we've covered a number of times though that Ruger is not entering the competition?
 
Hi JD,
I'm pretty sure that GAO made it pretty clear that they prefer this contract to go to an American Company. I might be wrong but Senator McCain was very clear
on his preference an he is The Chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee.
This is not secret spy stuff but easily found in the news.

Keep posting.

GO ARMY

Doc
 
freethought said:

Oh and in closing , to the individual that came off with " who cares what line troops think." ( or close to it)..........just about anybody who served cares.....and who cares what a civilian with a rather snotty attitude thinks about it?
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I assume you're talking about my comments about a soldiers perspective on the 9mm's terminal performance.

A solider is not:

---A forensic pathologist
---Educated in the field of human physiology
---Educated in rheology/fluid dynamics

Therefore, a soldier's opinion on terminal ballistics is useless.
 
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