Which influences accuracy most?

I agree with Metal god, bullet and powder are a very close 1 & 2, case prep and C.O.A.L. 3rd and 4th.

C.O.A.L. may move up if you're using long range bullets such as Berger's VLD's, they seem more sensitive to this than others such as SMK's.
 
Pond, James Pond asked:
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As I started resizing the first of my 1000 .223 cases last night (with a hand press!), I contemplated the task ahead.

Doing so I sighed and thought "Well, this had better all be worthwhile!!".

From there I began to consider that more broadly and I wondered to myself which aspect of reloading had the greatest effect on accuracy in a given rifle.

Is it the condition of the case?
Is it the bullet used?
Is it the powder?
Or COAL?
Click to expand...



JP,

My answer is none of the above has a greater +/- effect on accuracy than the consistency and quality control of your reloading procedure and equipment.
 
I had a old model 94 Winchester. The action was loose and the bore pitted... I believe you don't have a chance to get good accuracy unless you start with a quality rifle. No mater how good the ammo quality is. It's simple as that.
 
Savage11022335grVmax13grBlueDot100yardsfirstgroupfromnewbarrel59-18-2013.jpg


I resized 7,000 223 cases, poorly, while watching TV in the living room.
They are mixed brands. I got them for $63. I was ~ 7 gallons, so 223 cases are ~ 1000/gallon.
The necks were not concentric, but the only way to fix them is to shoot them again. I will never use that sizer die again.

I got the blemished bullets for 7.7 cents each in 2006. They are supposed to be 35 gr Vmax, but they only weigh 33 gr.

The powder is 15 gr Blue Dot.

I seated them long enough to jam into the lands of any 223 that I chamber, but I can never reach the lands of a NATO chamber with any bullet.

I built this rifle, sighted it in, and this is a pic of the first group (5 shots) at 100 yards Sept 2013. I doubt is it that accurate now. I would need to clean the bore.

Bad mixed brass
blemished bullets
pistol powder

What did I do right?
The 2.17" OAL reached the lands, so at least one end of the bullet was concentric with the bore.
And Blue Dot is not a bad powder.
And blem bullets are often accurate.
 
It's been a while since Mr. Pond got his Sig 400, but we still don't know for sure if he's had the thing really looked over as far as seeing if the bbl is torqued correctly or if there's a gross high spot on the receiver face.
 
Metal god
Clark :
So nothing matters or only the rifle ?
Click to expand...

Like a million other guys, I have been trying to figure out how I can get better accuracy and precision.

Based on the folklore I have read, I have tried many things.
Based on the many things I have tried, I have inferred principals from anecdotes.

So what I know is based on some folklore and some anecdotes.
If you have read different folklore or believed different folklore and experienced different anecdotes, your milage may vary.

The current state of my beliefs on... [ Professor Brian Greene says that he does not believe anything, but finds some evidence compelling]... I should say I am compelled to say my best guess at this time is:

category A
Things that seem to make an improvement with 5 shots at 100 yards

Big effect on accuracy
1) shoot when there is no wind
2) get a high power scope
3) practice dry firing and keeping crosshairs on bullseye
4) clean out Copper fouling in bore
5) good bullets
6) No expander ball use
7) jam bullet into lands
8) heavy gun and light bullet
9) float the barrel
10) keep barrel cool
11) expensive bull barrels
12) make sure scope mounts are tight to receiver


category B
Things that show no improvement with 5 shots at 100 yards.
To detect the improvement it would take more shots, a better shooter, a better rifle, better ammo, or something more than i am doing.

1) True the action face
2) true the inner C ring
3) lap the lugs
4) true the bolt face
5) chase the threads
6) speed up the lock time
7) glass bed the action
8) pillar bed the action
9) get a 1 ounce trigger
10) turn the case necks
11) weigh the brass
12) de burr the flash holes
13) weigh each powder charge
14) try different powders
15) use benchrest primers
16) lap the scope rings.
17) Dial in bore when chambering
18) re crown the muzzle
 
Clark-While I can not disprove your test as you did them I am very puzzeled by your findings. First I would never judge a group at 100 yards unless we are talking a 22. Which Is why I do concure with your tests. 100 yards IMHO is no where near enough to conduct an accuracy test. I could give you 20 loads from a 308 that will make one hole at 100 yards, but fall apart at 300 plus.
In the no difference catagory. Numbers 7, 8 and 14 and 15. All those make a big difference in accuracy.
Bull barrels while you can shoot more non stop are no more accurate than a skinny one. Weighing your powder charge is another one for me that makes a difference. While 20 to 30 fps at 100 yards makes no difference, take that out to 1000 yards and you have a 8 inch spread i bet. My match loads I can maintain 10 fps or less by weighing each charge on a digital scale. This one I don't make a big deal about because I know a lot of top shooters just throw a charge and shoot great( always has puzzeled me on that one)
Might I suggest you do this test again, but at a minimum of 300 yards. I have a feeling your results will change.
 
It's every detail perfected, working together to get it perfected. However, simply stated, I personally believe case care, prep, and selection is much more important than charge weight etc.. Picking your powder should be easy enough to get acceptable results once you know your barrel twist and bullet choice. You can always taylor choose either of these. But, you can't substitute case prep. Nothing will erase, make up for, or cover up shotty case prep, cases with different brass, or cases with differing capacity. God Bless

OnGod Bless
 
Repeat:

I won a bid on one of the gun auctions, $120.00. The rifle was so ugly it caught the attentions of reloading forums, the general consensus was it was the ugliest.

I could not believe anyone could build a rifle that ugly without knowing what they were doing. I took the rifle to the range with reloads. Again, I gook 120 rounds of 12 different loads with different cases, powder and bullets. If I was wrong about the builder being creative I was going to use it as a parts gun.

I did not hoover over the cases and press, I did nothing with off the lands, I sized the cases with total disregard to the length of the chamber. Again, I did not have a group that was larger in diameter than a quarter. The groups did move around but did not open up.

I decided I could not improve on the accuracy of the Remington M1917, I applied the 'leaver policy', I left the rifle the way I founder.

F. Guffey
 
4runnerman
Might I suggest you do this test again, but at a minimum of 300 yards. I have a feeling your results will change.
Click to expand...

I live on an Island surrounded by the worst traffic for 1,000 miles to the South, 2,000 miles to the East, 5,000 miles to the West, and 10,000 miles to the North. But I do make it to a 100 yard range, a couple times a year.
I write up detailed range reports, like a high school chemistry lab write up.

One a year I put 3 or 4 rifles I built that year in the vehicle, drive 900 miles East and hunt. I usually arrive a month early. I target practice on low wind days. In Oct 2014 I had the accuracy and precision to take shots at 550 yards, but I got my bucks at 50 yards when the seasons opened.
My write ups from the field are terrible. I never write them up while reading my notes and targets before memory fades.
 
I have a somewhat seat of the pants view on it, but after a long time loading I have come to some conclusions.
The shooters' contribution to accuracy is 80%, the shooter must do their part. The other 20% is a combination of everything else.
Of the 20% of what's left, the projectile is 80% of that.
What's left is 20% of 20% and it amounts to everything else.

To restate, the shooter and the projectile is 96% of it.
 
I admit that I don't know positively what works best for accuracy and what doesn't, so I do everything (pretty much) that I can think of to do and hope that the cumulative effort results in a good shooter. That approach seems to work pretty well, though I suppose it isn't scientific.

And on the fat barrel versus skinny barrel as it applies to accuracy, the consensus seems to be that thin is every bit as good as thick. Baloney. I accept the theory behind that, but in the real world if I want maximum accuracy I want a bull barrel and not a thin whippy one. Yell at me if you wish, but my mind is made up.
 
Whilst I don't question the truth of it, those posters who are bringing the shooter and even the rifle into the equation are perhaps missing the point of the thread.

If your accuracy is not as good as you'd like, sure you can practise, but that will take a long time to see improvements. On the other hand you're not ging to just buy a new rifle or barrel. You won't opt for truing the action or bedding it.

For most the first stop is tweak load recipes. Take my M400 as an example: when not bowled over by accuracy m suggestion to get handloading for it was met with agreement as opposed to spending a stack on a Geiselle trigger.

So, look at it like this. Imagine you have a one-use magic wand that will instantly make one aspect of your handloaded cartridge utterly perfect for you gun. You can zap the bullet to match your barrel sublimely or pazzazz your cases to fit the chamber like a glove everytime etc.

Which would you choose?
That is what I was getting at in the OP.
 
Maybe that's exactly what's needed though. Take quality reloads, great gun, if the shooter can't read wind or shoot consistently, and have good control on when to pull trigger and how to pull trigger correctly, the reloads and rifle isn't going to mean a hill of beans.
 
Beer, thats my secret. Only after a Successful range trip, I reward myself with beer. It works try it....I like it, therfore I am.
 
I feel each one will effect accuracy. Most attention will be in case prep, if your sloppy with any one of them it will effect your group size.
 
I agree with cw308 here. To many just throw the case in the die and slam away. They pay no attention to the finer details. Sizing is IMHO more important then seating the bullet to me. Neck tension is another one most don't pay attention to. If your neck tension is all over-so are your groups. Each and every step is important. Can't say one is more important then the other. They all work together.
 
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