Which gun/carry combo when visiting VERY anti-gun family in Asheville
- Thread starter chaim
- Start date
Things have been busy and in the week or so since I last read this thread (and made a mental note to respond to some posts when I could get on for a little longer), it has grown to 3 pages. So, my apologies for not responding individually and instead going with some general themes...
Why I want to carry in this situation... There seemed to be a few of these here. First, if I didn't live in a state where it was nearly impossible to get a CCW permit for a regular person I'd carry daily, and if I wasn't also a teacher which means I couldn't carry at work in most states I'd carry nearly 100% of the time. I am a strong believer in self-defense and in CCW, so when I legally can, I like to exercise my rights. I've been a victim of a violent crime before, I don't want to be again, so I want to carry when I can. I'm going to be traveling, stopping at travel plazas/rest stops, and stopping at gas stations and fast food restaurants in areas I don't know (i.e. where I don't know where the good and bad areas are), so carry is prudent.
Why not use martial arts or carry a knife... I don't have a bad back, bad ankle and bad knee because I'm overweight, I'm overweight because I have a bad back, bad ankle, and bad knee which limited my physical activity (the ankle is why the Army decided they didn't want me anymore, I developed the knee and back issues shortly thereafter and before I got fat, though I'm sure the weight has made them even worse). Recently (2 or 3 years ago) I've also developed neck issues as well. Even without the weight issues, these musculoskeletal issues will make any kind of "hand to hand combat" situation problematic- I won't be as efficient, I'm more likely to be injured (it doesn't take much to seriously hurt my back for instance - in addition to the already bad back and now the weight, a car accident some years ago and an injury breaking up a student fight this past year haven't helped) and if injured, it could be worse than it otherwise would have been. Add to that, I'm now 80 pounds overweight and this isn't a great option (though here in MD I am limited to carrying a knife and pepper spray). I also have high blood pressure, diabetes, and high cholesterol, so the serious exertion of a "hand to hand" situation may cause a heart attack (you can say that is just being dramatic, but I personally knew a teacher who died of a heart attack after breaking up a student fight, a fight is harder on the heart than many other forms of exertion). I may be turning 49 later this month, but I have the body of someone 10-20 years older.
Why carry around family members I know don't like guns... This one is a very reasonable theme. Partly, the whole wanting to exercise my rights where and when I am legally able. Partly, you don't know when/where something will happen. However, the biggest part is that I want the gun while traveling, and having it with me while there will be safer (from a theft perspective) than leaving it in the trunk or at the hotel. Hence, my desire to be as discrete as possible, that way I can carry without upsetting them for doing something they oppose as strongly as I support (or triggering an ugly debate when the intent is an enjoyable visit). I'm respecting them by not carrying at their home, but I do want to be able to carry while there.
As for why visit them if they are anti-gun, well, they are family, and I like them quite a bit even though we disagree on most political issues. Don't other people have relationships (family, friends) where you get along on most things, but have one or two things (political issues or candidates, religion, thoughts on their choice of life partner/spouse or other particular life choices) that it is better not to discuss?
Why I want to carry in this situation... There seemed to be a few of these here. First, if I didn't live in a state where it was nearly impossible to get a CCW permit for a regular person I'd carry daily, and if I wasn't also a teacher which means I couldn't carry at work in most states I'd carry nearly 100% of the time. I am a strong believer in self-defense and in CCW, so when I legally can, I like to exercise my rights. I've been a victim of a violent crime before, I don't want to be again, so I want to carry when I can. I'm going to be traveling, stopping at travel plazas/rest stops, and stopping at gas stations and fast food restaurants in areas I don't know (i.e. where I don't know where the good and bad areas are), so carry is prudent.
Why not use martial arts or carry a knife... I don't have a bad back, bad ankle and bad knee because I'm overweight, I'm overweight because I have a bad back, bad ankle, and bad knee which limited my physical activity (the ankle is why the Army decided they didn't want me anymore, I developed the knee and back issues shortly thereafter and before I got fat, though I'm sure the weight has made them even worse). Recently (2 or 3 years ago) I've also developed neck issues as well. Even without the weight issues, these musculoskeletal issues will make any kind of "hand to hand combat" situation problematic- I won't be as efficient, I'm more likely to be injured (it doesn't take much to seriously hurt my back for instance - in addition to the already bad back and now the weight, a car accident some years ago and an injury breaking up a student fight this past year haven't helped) and if injured, it could be worse than it otherwise would have been. Add to that, I'm now 80 pounds overweight and this isn't a great option (though here in MD I am limited to carrying a knife and pepper spray). I also have high blood pressure, diabetes, and high cholesterol, so the serious exertion of a "hand to hand" situation may cause a heart attack (you can say that is just being dramatic, but I personally knew a teacher who died of a heart attack after breaking up a student fight, a fight is harder on the heart than many other forms of exertion). I may be turning 49 later this month, but I have the body of someone 10-20 years older.
Why carry around family members I know don't like guns... This one is a very reasonable theme. Partly, the whole wanting to exercise my rights where and when I am legally able. Partly, you don't know when/where something will happen. However, the biggest part is that I want the gun while traveling, and having it with me while there will be safer (from a theft perspective) than leaving it in the trunk or at the hotel. Hence, my desire to be as discrete as possible, that way I can carry without upsetting them for doing something they oppose as strongly as I support (or triggering an ugly debate when the intent is an enjoyable visit). I'm respecting them by not carrying at their home, but I do want to be able to carry while there.
As for why visit them if they are anti-gun, well, they are family, and I like them quite a bit even though we disagree on most political issues. Don't other people have relationships (family, friends) where you get along on most things, but have one or two things (political issues or candidates, religion, thoughts on their choice of life partner/spouse or other particular life choices) that it is better not to discuss?
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OK, since there has been a lot of activity since I posted, this is getting long so I'm breaking it in two...
Looking at NC law, it appears that I should be OK at the bars (where my aunt will perform) so long as I don't drink. However, I wouldn't be surprised if many of them post no carry signs, which apparently carry the force of law in NC. Also, I really don't know where my uncle and aunt will want to take me. If I may have to disarm at my car often, I'm leaning two directions...
Carry while traveling, but lock it in a lockbox at the hotel once I get there. I'd still need to go with pocket carry (or other more discrete option) since in the car seems the most likely time for my gun to be exposed: getting in and out, sitting with my arms extended while driving which could raise my shirt a bit, and the seatbelt possibly catching my gun or shirt could all expose my gun if I carry IWB. I'll be driving with my very anti-carry brother the entire way, and I'm stopping after about 45min to pick up one of my cousins who is very liberal (and probably anti-gun/anti-carry, though we've never discussed it).
Since that means I won't be carrying the rest of the time, I'm leaning towards option 2...
I've thought about it for a while for limited situations, and this seems like one it would be perfect for... off body carry. It would allow me to carry (and to carry a larger/more capable gun discretely), it would have nearly zero chance of exposure short of actually needing the gun, it would be relatively accessible if I needed it, and it would be easy to take the gun off and put it in the trunk without broadcasting to the family that I actually have a gun on me by taking off the pack and locking it away. I could do a fanny pack and look like a tourist (which I'll be), or I could get something bigger (like a Maxpedition Versipack). Something like the Versipack would also allow me space to also carry my insulin and diabetes supplies and/or a camera in a different section, and if they saw me going in and out of the bag for things it may be even more discrete (carrying a fanny pack might look odd if someone was observant enough to notice that I never take anything out or put anything in, most people probably wouldn't notice but it is something I could see my brother noticing and commenting upon).
If I go this way, I might go with one of my compact CZs, or SIG P229, but the M&P40c and Colt King Cobra (after a solid range session with it since I still haven't had time to get to the range) would be strong possibilities as well.
Looking at NC law, it appears that I should be OK at the bars (where my aunt will perform) so long as I don't drink. However, I wouldn't be surprised if many of them post no carry signs, which apparently carry the force of law in NC. Also, I really don't know where my uncle and aunt will want to take me. If I may have to disarm at my car often, I'm leaning two directions...
Carry while traveling, but lock it in a lockbox at the hotel once I get there. I'd still need to go with pocket carry (or other more discrete option) since in the car seems the most likely time for my gun to be exposed: getting in and out, sitting with my arms extended while driving which could raise my shirt a bit, and the seatbelt possibly catching my gun or shirt could all expose my gun if I carry IWB. I'll be driving with my very anti-carry brother the entire way, and I'm stopping after about 45min to pick up one of my cousins who is very liberal (and probably anti-gun/anti-carry, though we've never discussed it).
Since that means I won't be carrying the rest of the time, I'm leaning towards option 2...
I've thought about it for a while for limited situations, and this seems like one it would be perfect for... off body carry. It would allow me to carry (and to carry a larger/more capable gun discretely), it would have nearly zero chance of exposure short of actually needing the gun, it would be relatively accessible if I needed it, and it would be easy to take the gun off and put it in the trunk without broadcasting to the family that I actually have a gun on me by taking off the pack and locking it away. I could do a fanny pack and look like a tourist (which I'll be), or I could get something bigger (like a Maxpedition Versipack). Something like the Versipack would also allow me space to also carry my insulin and diabetes supplies and/or a camera in a different section, and if they saw me going in and out of the bag for things it may be even more discrete (carrying a fanny pack might look odd if someone was observant enough to notice that I never take anything out or put anything in, most people probably wouldn't notice but it is something I could see my brother noticing and commenting upon).
If I go this way, I might go with one of my compact CZs, or SIG P229, but the M&P40c and Colt King Cobra (after a solid range session with it since I still haven't had time to get to the range) would be strong possibilities as well.
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I ordered the Maxpedition Versipack Fatboy. Hopefully, it isn't too big or too small. I also ordered the holster and mag holder with it (as well as a small first aid kit). Hopefully, this will be the answer, and it may even allow me my usual carry choices. One thing I left out in my last post, I'm already used to carrying a bag around. Since I'm diabetic I carry a small bag with my insulin pen, needles, blood sugar monitor, test strips, lancet device, record book, and pen to record blood sugar readings. So, I should be less likely to accidentally leave it in a bathroom or something (I always check to be sure I have my diabetes supplies).
Aguila Blanca
Staff
Sounds like a plan.chaim said:
Aside from prior history making it less likely that you'll forget the carry pack, it's also a built-in justification. I do the same thing when I wear a vest or an untucked shirt over a tee shirt. I wear glasses to read but not for driving or walking around, plus a couple of different pens and sometimes a small notebook. If anyone wants to know why I'm wearing an outer layer on a hot summer day, the answer is that I need the pockets.
chuck jones
New member
S&W M&P40c and the LCP for those times maximum description is needed.
But I'd need to be in line to inherit a boatload of money to put myself through anything like that
But I'd need to be in line to inherit a boatload of money to put myself through anything like that
So, my Maxpedition Fatboy and velcro holster and mag holder came...
It is a bit smaller than I thought. I guess I saw too many reviews of the Jumbo and Wolfspur (same size as the Jumbo) and mixed them up. Now, I will have plenty of room for a small first aid kit, Gerber multi-tool, my diabetes stuff, maybe a camera, mag or speed loaders, and a smallish gun... However, while a bigger gun will fit well in the Jumbo, I think the M&P40c is about the right size for the Fatboy (my Colt King Cobra and Taurus 856 will work well too, though they'd probably be better paired with a regular pocket holster than the velcro one-sized fits all holster for the Maxpedition bags, they work better with an auto than a revolver).
With the holster, I can barely get my CZ P01 in the gun compartment. It is big enough that it doesn't really need the velcro holster to position it properly (though I would prefer to have the trigger covered by something more sturdy than the bag's canvas). Without the holster it does fit a lot better (it actually fits about perfectly), however, the gun is large enough that depending upon how I draw either the slide and sights or the butt of the gun will grab on the opening of the compartment. This is a big problem when you consider that the fact that it is off body carry already slows the draw (I need to either swing the bag to the front before unzipping the gun compartment or reach for the zipper to the gun compartment by my side/to my rear and hope I don't get another compartment) and don't need to be further slowed by the gun grabbing on the opening to the compartment. It really is a shame too since the green finish that some CZs (like my P01) have is almost a perfect match to the green of the "foliage" Maxpedition.
I don't think I'll return it. The bag is well made, and the mistake isn't on the seller, it was mine. I suspect it is significantly more carry friendly than the Jumbo, which is why I went with it to begin with. What I may do, is buy either the Wolfspur or Jumbo for what I bought this for since it will allow a larger gun, and since I do always have a water bottle with me the water bottle pocket (big enough for a 1L Nalgene) would be nice. Then, I'll keep my Fatboy to use here at home. I won't carry a gun in it (can't in MD) and I'll get a knife-less multi-tool so it will be legal at work (federal law doesn't allow anything that can be considered a weapon in schools unless you are in a state where the CCW laws allow you to carry in schools). However, it isn't any harder to carry than the hand held case I carry my diabetes stuff in already, and in fact would be easier due to the well thought out design, and I'd be able to carry more stuff I could use anyway. The only downside to carrying it everyday... "man purse", ugh.
TL/DR:
The Fatboy is a little smaller than I wanted. It is probably a perfect EDC size, but for a vacation bag, the Jumbo or Jumbo-sized Wolfspur would be a better way to go. I'm thinking strongly about buying the larger bag for my trip (and other future trips), but keeping my Fatboy for everyday use (minus carrying a pistol since I can't in MD).
It is a bit smaller than I thought. I guess I saw too many reviews of the Jumbo and Wolfspur (same size as the Jumbo) and mixed them up. Now, I will have plenty of room for a small first aid kit, Gerber multi-tool, my diabetes stuff, maybe a camera, mag or speed loaders, and a smallish gun... However, while a bigger gun will fit well in the Jumbo, I think the M&P40c is about the right size for the Fatboy (my Colt King Cobra and Taurus 856 will work well too, though they'd probably be better paired with a regular pocket holster than the velcro one-sized fits all holster for the Maxpedition bags, they work better with an auto than a revolver).
With the holster, I can barely get my CZ P01 in the gun compartment. It is big enough that it doesn't really need the velcro holster to position it properly (though I would prefer to have the trigger covered by something more sturdy than the bag's canvas). Without the holster it does fit a lot better (it actually fits about perfectly), however, the gun is large enough that depending upon how I draw either the slide and sights or the butt of the gun will grab on the opening of the compartment. This is a big problem when you consider that the fact that it is off body carry already slows the draw (I need to either swing the bag to the front before unzipping the gun compartment or reach for the zipper to the gun compartment by my side/to my rear and hope I don't get another compartment) and don't need to be further slowed by the gun grabbing on the opening to the compartment. It really is a shame too since the green finish that some CZs (like my P01) have is almost a perfect match to the green of the "foliage" Maxpedition.
I don't think I'll return it. The bag is well made, and the mistake isn't on the seller, it was mine. I suspect it is significantly more carry friendly than the Jumbo, which is why I went with it to begin with. What I may do, is buy either the Wolfspur or Jumbo for what I bought this for since it will allow a larger gun, and since I do always have a water bottle with me the water bottle pocket (big enough for a 1L Nalgene) would be nice. Then, I'll keep my Fatboy to use here at home. I won't carry a gun in it (can't in MD) and I'll get a knife-less multi-tool so it will be legal at work (federal law doesn't allow anything that can be considered a weapon in schools unless you are in a state where the CCW laws allow you to carry in schools). However, it isn't any harder to carry than the hand held case I carry my diabetes stuff in already, and in fact would be easier due to the well thought out design, and I'd be able to carry more stuff I could use anyway. The only downside to carrying it everyday... "man purse", ugh.
TL/DR:
The Fatboy is a little smaller than I wanted. It is probably a perfect EDC size, but for a vacation bag, the Jumbo or Jumbo-sized Wolfspur would be a better way to go. I'm thinking strongly about buying the larger bag for my trip (and other future trips), but keeping my Fatboy for everyday use (minus carrying a pistol since I can't in MD).
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Ah, meh
... Look, good luck and hope everything works out during your time with the relations, such as they are. Not a fan of Maxpedition for concealed carry, and not because their stuff isn't durable or utilitarian. I know it is because I have a few of their products.
I just think there are better 'Gray Man' options out there in similar-size carry gear. Maxpedition stuff always seems to scream 'gun-in-inside/militia wannabe/trendy tac-commando.' Folks who recognize it as Maxpedition gear will assume you're carrying a firearm in it.
Hopefully none of those folks will be your relatives, and you'll be fine.
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In their home, it IS 'their business'..same as maybe not talking about certain subjects or smoking..If the OP just can't see fit to be unarmed in their house, maybe not visit..but their house, their rules.
That's a pretty broad brush, considering you know ZERO about the OP or his relatives. BTW--I know a guy who is hipster right down to his plaid shirt, tight black pants, goofy mustache and fixed gear bike...and he EDC...so...
So, the trip is finished...
The Maxpedition bag worked well for its intended purpose (I went with the Taurus 856 even though I'd like a lot more ammo through it before I trust it).
Most of the time I could have got by fine with pocket carry. I did not see one store or restaurant with no carry signs posted. However, I did go in my uncle's house a few times, and knowing how they feel about guns I would not have carried and it would have been tough to take the gun out of my pocket without anyone seeing it.
So, the bag worked. I had my diabetes stuff in it so I was always in and out of the bag, so no one had any questions. It was also easy to discretely leave it behind when carrying the gun was a bad idea (in my uncle's house, when having some wine when my uncle's wife's band played at a vineyard). However, I didn't love off-body carry. I never worried much about forgetting it, but when doing a lot of walking, the strap got to be a bit uncomfortable. I know some people carry these bags full time to carry their daily stuff. If I was ever going to try that, I'd definitely have to find a different bag and hope it fit my shoulders a bit better. It will serve for the very occasional use that I had been considering buying it for over the past year or two. I may use it once every year or two so it will probably last forever.
The Maxpedition bag worked well for its intended purpose (I went with the Taurus 856 even though I'd like a lot more ammo through it before I trust it).
Most of the time I could have got by fine with pocket carry. I did not see one store or restaurant with no carry signs posted. However, I did go in my uncle's house a few times, and knowing how they feel about guns I would not have carried and it would have been tough to take the gun out of my pocket without anyone seeing it.
So, the bag worked. I had my diabetes stuff in it so I was always in and out of the bag, so no one had any questions. It was also easy to discretely leave it behind when carrying the gun was a bad idea (in my uncle's house, when having some wine when my uncle's wife's band played at a vineyard). However, I didn't love off-body carry. I never worried much about forgetting it, but when doing a lot of walking, the strap got to be a bit uncomfortable. I know some people carry these bags full time to carry their daily stuff. If I was ever going to try that, I'd definitely have to find a different bag and hope it fit my shoulders a bit better. It will serve for the very occasional use that I had been considering buying it for over the past year or two. I may use it once every year or two so it will probably last forever.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
I'm very happy that you found a solution that worked for you. That's the important thing.
lee n. field
New member
That's what I hear about the sling bags. Look cool, but not comfortable for actually carrying much very far, on account of the weight being on a single shoulder.
"I'm going to be traveling, stopping at travel plazas/rest stops, and stopping at gas stations and fast food restaurants in areas I don't know (i.e. where I don't know where the good and bad areas are), so carry is prudent."
I can certainly understand that. Of course, violent crime can happen anywhere, but maintaining situational awareness and avoiding likely danger zones can minimize your risk.
I can certainly understand that. Of course, violent crime can happen anywhere, but maintaining situational awareness and avoiding likely danger zones can minimize your risk.