Where are we headed?

"What on earth did any of those events have to do with Federal encroachment of Civil Liberties?"

Simply that economic trends and political trends swing back and forth.

"P.S. - "No, you can't argue that our personal freedoms are intact." Things change, they always have. The pendulum does swing both ways. Stick around."

JT
 
Where are we headed? For change.

Governments inherently amass power and increase control over the governed. All forms of government rise and fall in predictable cycles. And the vast majority of people have no interest beyond those things which directly affect their own personal lives.

However, I cast my lot with neither the pessimists or the lotus-eaters, but with the cautious optimists. Our grand experiment in democratic republicanism has produced both good and bad, but I think the balance still tips toward the former. There are still many thoughtful people with strong convictions jealously guarding the ideals that made America great. I would be more concerned if we were all so self-satisfied with current conditions that the passion for liberty was allowed to fade away.
 
Going to the highest bidder

Rich you win. Right on Rich for our rights. Remember his speech? There will be no discussion. You are either for U.S. or against us . We will not do business with terrorists. You got to ask your self who has the most to gain from this? Just follow the money. This parallels 1930's Germany. Are we financing our own demise? Too many questions, not many answers, just doesn't feel right. It has woke the sleeping giant. We need to make the paradigm shift quickly to discern what's at stake.
 
The youth are more concerned with being consumers and throwing away thier brains.

I've seen this sentiment appear frequently within this thread and others like it, and I'm going to have to disgree to a certain extent. It's easy to rail against the follies of youth ... and people have done it for generations and millennia throughout the world. Are the heterogenous group known as "today's youth" better or worse than their predecessors? Debatable point at best. However, how different are they than their parents with respect to consumer habits and frivolous entertainments? Or even their parents' parents? Not by much, I'd hazard to guess.

I'd also like to mention that the same youth that is decried as dissolute and unwarily tripping toward some ostensible degree of enslavement has produced both examples of bravery and self-sacrifice in the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan and, conversely, well-organized vocal opposition to a war and to policies of a government many feel need to be opposed. While these are quite disparate examples, they both indicate to me that the traits that people feel are lacking in the youth of today remain vibrant and strong within many members of that group.
 
Freedom goes up and down it just goes down a lot easier than it goes up.
freedom.jpg
 
2ndAmendment nailed it in post #6. Step back and take a broad view. We are a nation at the end of its natural life.
All societies exist for a time, even flourish for awhile, but then grow old and die. Ours is, or has been, a relatively free society, and it is reaching the end of its life.
I suspect that, should one look at history, they would find that free societies typically have the shortest lifespans. The burn brightly in the light of freedom, but the end result is they quickly expend all their energies, dying at a young age when compared to others.
The complaints of many of us, the disappearing freedoms, the growing apathy of the population, ineffective government, and all the rest, are but symptoms of the aging process. They cannot be reversed, at best they can be temporarily slowed or halted.
And the disease cannot be cured by treating the symptoms.
I often wonder if we would be better off planning for how to cope with the coming fall of this nation, rather than expending effort trying to reverse something that cannot be turned around.
 
This entire argument really is a mute point. Having read the posts here I am proud that we have so many civilized people on this board who can debate their very different opinions in a civilized fashion, the way it was intended.

But I'm afraid it really is too late. Redworm said, "What happens if that way of thinking becomes so accepted that those who understand freedom and responsibility end up a small minority?"

We ARE the minority now. Those of us on this site and other like sites, in the NRA, and the precious other few who are informed enough to know something is wrong, are the only ones who, and this is the key word, CARE.

You think 99% of kids in college give a flying fart about personnel freedoms and personal responsibility? Hell no. Our kids today are only concerned about the convenient locations of starbucks, and which new Xbox is going to come out. Granted those are generalizations and only two examples but nonetheless they are true. Kids today, are this countries' future. And what have we taught our future? That it is ok to commit crimes because, if it's your first offense, or your rich, or the courts are too bogged down with civil suits, nothing bad will really happen to you. I see bumper stickers that say, "Love your kids." I say we love them too much. We shield them from any possible negative event in their lives that we can, and then wonder why they act like morons when they get out on their own.

We here, are the last of a breed who truly and passionately care about issues that effect this country. Our kids, are of a breed that truly and passionately care about what Paris Hilton thinks is "hot", and how many text messages they can send in a 24 hour period. I'm only 24 years old, but I believe I'm of my father's generation at heart.

People say that our freedoms have been steadily declining in the past 50 years. I say they have dropped like a frickin safe from a 10th story roof in the past 10. Granted things weren't perfect ten or even twenty years ago. But back then some of you older guys here, were the younger generation. Do you think twenty years ago you guys had your heads up your butts as far as kids these days do?

I say while this thread and debate, distracting and entertaining though it might be, is mute. It is already too late. Soon the generation-Xer's, will graduate from college. (God knows how most of them will do it. What with mardi gras and spring break being the only reasons they were there in the first place.) And they will go out into the work force like a tainted flow of laborers. And the work ethics, and moral fiber of this country will plummet when these kids bail at the first sign of difficulty. Heading straight back to mommy and daddy wanting them to make it all better.

I forsee in the near future, the number of recruits and volunteers for our armed forces steadily shrinking to a trickle as more and more yuppie pacifists fill the gene pools. Fighting for what you believe in, and resistance in general to any established norm, will become taboo. And when we are at our weakest, when there is noone left in the next two generation of kids who are willing to do anything to help anyone, or to defend this nation. Our enemies will see that this country is ripe for the picking.

Do you think I'm just being paranoid? That I'm wrong about even half of our youth today? I have never personally seen or heard of a gathering of students, or student march or rally to "Support our troops". And do not confuse this with marches or rallies that say, "Bring our troops home". Did they not have the same kind of marches during the Vietnam War, that preached the same message, "Bring our troops home"? And what did they do when those troops got home? They spit on them, and decried them as baby killers. Just because someone says, "Bring them home", does not mean that they love those troops or what the troops themselves are fighting for. (The troops' ideals I mean. Freeing Iraq.) "So what about those ribbons and other things that say 'support our troops'?", you ask? (Hope I got the punctuation on that right.) That just means that someone thought it would be a good idea to print a message people care about on a magnet and sell it. They make, "I love Jesus", and "I love Satan", and "I love sandwhiches", magnets too. A magnet, or banner, or whatever, doesn't mean that there is present, a passionate person who cares about the symbolized issue. If you want to support the troops, send them cards, send them letters, send them care packages, send them porn for crying out loud. Write your congressman/woman and tell them you want them home. Or that you want them to finish the job and then come home. But I don't see or hear of alot of today's youth doing such things.

It's already started. People care so much for the rights of the poor, oppresed detainees in Guantanimo, that the military is now capitulating and saying, "Well we want to close the prison, we just need to make sure the prisoners will be coddled wherever they wind up".

People don't care about the potential terror that these prisoners could carryout. They don't care about defending this country or about potential victims. They only care about how the rest of the world 'feels' about us.

Are these pessimistic views or defeatist notions? Your damn right they are. Because if we are not prepared to deal with the worst possible outcome, we are in for a rude awakening. Pacifism and the abolishment of all that is violent and ugly, (guns, war, soldiers,) while pretty in appearance, and good hearted in nature, won't stop a plane from ripping a tower to shreds.:cool: :mad:
 
People say that our freedoms have been steadily declining in the past 50 years. I say they have dropped like a frickin safe from a 10th story roof in the past 10. Granted things weren't perfect ten or even twenty years ago. But back then some of you older guys here, were the younger generation. Do you think twenty years ago you guys had your heads up your butts as far as kids these days do?
Since my life has covered the 50-year window you are examining, I'll take a stab at an answer.

Yes, when I was growing up, kids had their heads just as far up their butts as kids do today. And when we popped our heads out and looked around, we were just as horrified that the country was about to fall off of a cliff. Many of the things that appeared so grave then look pretty trivial in retrospect.
 
And when we popped our heads out and looked around, we were just as horrified that the country was about to fall off of a cliff.

How many times is it going to be before the country doesn't catch itself in time? I don't really see much in the way of current events that's trivial.:cool:
 
We're just following the rise and fall of a nation. I forget the path now, from tyranny to freedom to...

From bondage to faith,
From faith to courage,
From courage to freedom,
From freedom to apathy,
From apathy to unfaithfulness,
From unfaithfulness to bondage,
 
Yes, when I was growing up, kids had their heads just as far up their butts as kids do today.

I'm 41 and we certainly didn't have our heads this far up there. Neither did the next batch. But the latest crop seems to be a whole different ballgame in general. Really, though, that's kind of unimportant considering the state of our government and economy. This current crop could be a fleet of Jeffersons and it wouldn't matter. They aren't going to get a chance to participate in anything but a Third World Globalist America so they might as well be bitter, easily appeased and addicted to the TV anyway.
 
Soon the generation-Xer's, will graduate from college.

Actually, most of the people typically regarded as "Gen-Xers" that attended college already have graduated and are now in the work force, or the military, or graduate and professional schools, etc. I don't see too many of them relying on state subsidies to provide for their latte habit.
 
Glock 31 said:
Soon the generation-Xer's, will graduate from college.

Generation X, born between '64 and '79, is pretty much done with college.

Also, complaining about the immaturity of today's kids when you call yourself "Dragon Shadowlaw" and have an ASCII bunny rabbit in your sigline is the height of irony. ;)
 
Also, complaining about the immaturity of today's kids when you call yourself "Dragon Shadowlaw" and have an ASCII bunny rabbit in your sigline is the height of irony.

So your judging me purely by what I call myself online and what I find is humurous? That's really judging the book by it's cover. If I want to be mature, then I can't have a sense of humor, is that what you meant? Maybe I should have chosen a name like "blue collar mister smith", or "stuck in dead end job". Would that have given me more right to post here?:mad:

And I apologize if I got the year range wrong on Generation X. I thought it was for, "the about to graduate" generation. My bad. And I didn't say anything about state subsidies, they were just examples. It was simply to illustrate that my father's generation seemed to have a lot more down to earth and relevant concerns, than today's generation does.

You see, a sign of maturity is being able to admit I made a mistake. Most immature people I've met, would rather live in denial, rather than be told they were wrong.
 
Glock 31, I think Tamara's point was that there is a certain irony in seeing somebody who signs off with elements of Japanese anime culture railing about kids and their X-Box's. Unless of course "Dragon Shadowlaw" means something different.

It's funny that you clarified which 'generation' you intended, because it reinforces the point I tried to make earlier: that complaints about the younger elements of society by their elders are commonplace and relatively meaningless. That you can shift the same complaint to a yet younger group without changing a single item of your original complaint rather takes away from whatever power your argument possessed. It becomes grumbling about "them durn kids" rather than specific points of issue with a specific age bracket of the American population.

So, how different are the Paris Hilton devotees of today from the bobbie-soxers of yore?
 
Where did you get japanese anime from? Yes it does mean something different. Checkout the thread on what people's handles mean if you want the explanation. I think it's like page 46 or something.

My original focus was on the generation about to graduate all along. I simply mistakenly refered to it by an older generation's monacher. As far as grumbling about "them durn kids", well I was taught to listen to my elders. Since they're old, it's commonly assumed they have more experience than young people, being that they've been around longer. Experience, not wisdom. Even old people can be wrong. My whole point is that while EVERY generation has it's shortcomings, it seems to me, and several people I've met who have been around alot longer than I have. That this next generation about to take over the important roles in society, don't have the drive, the conviction, or even really the will to care about issues that severly threaten this country.:cool:

And I don't know who bobbie-soxers is, but if your comparing him/her/them to Paris Hilton, well then they are probably not all that different. Did bobbie-soxers have everything handed to him/her/them and not have to work for anything that was handed to em? Paris was spoiled rotten, and since she's on tv, she's automatically a role model for youths to look up to and emulate her. Same as any star, singer, or athlete. Since they are role models, they should act in a more dignified manner.
 
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